Cessna 310R down near Las Vegas yesterday (Oct 29); two dead

[Palmpilot]

Yes, but 1K AGL at some place like Tahoe would make more sense that a plane would struggle to maintain altitude, even at blue line, especially on a hot day. But 1K MSL.. I mean.. I would assume even the underpowered early twins would be able to sustain flight at 1K MSL....

He said 1000 MSL in south Texas. Not much high terrain there, unless he meant southwest Texas.

 

[Fracpilot]

He said 1000 MSL in south Texas. Not much high terrain there, unless he meant southwest Texas.

Yes it was 1200 MSL. On a hot summer day in TX, that’s about 4000ft DA. @Radarcontact lives in Illinois and his demo was done in the winter, where you actually get a credit to performance. In his latest video using his 3 axis AP, he now has vortex generators, which also gives him a performance credit.

My right engine is at TBO which means it will perform less than POH performance. So yes, given the conditions for my plane on that hot summer day, I was only to maintain altitude just shy of blue line at 11-1200 MSL on a 35 deg day. @Radarcontact’s engines are newer and most likely better performance than mine.


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[Tarheelpilot]

Somehow you need to document 6 per 6 to be "lEgAl" in IMC, but flying all over kingdom come with twice the flammable volume without having to demonstrate a single engine cut / SE approach to a landing on a recurrent basis is par for the course. Ok Seems legit.

The insurance critters are right. I'll take "and that's why we can't afford nice things" for $400 Alex...
/sarc

No need for more regulation.

 

[N1120A]

Keep in mind, we very much usually only hear of the times it goes bad. I personally know several guys that have lost one and landed just fine (310, 340, 414 and 421). The room for error in these events is often very small. If you are well trained/proficient, have an otherwise sound plane and have appropriate conditions (think NA mountains, etc), there is a real added safety margin.

I know folks who have lost engines in many twins and had largely uneventful flights back to safe airports. My friend's dad lost one on takeoff on his PA30T and just flew a traffic pattern

 

[danhagan]

My experience has been she behaves quite well, all things considered, in OEI scenarios. Not that I’m hoping to ever test it out in all real world scenarios.

You fly quite a bit, are super detail oriented, extremely pro-active on maintenance and am sure that carries over to training scenarios as well ... that and the fact you're probably on a first name basis with any controller within 200 miles of the home drome doesn't hurt either if ATC assistance is needed ... (saying this in the vein of you would not hesitate to declare as opposed to some that need to declare and don't or end up having ATC do it for them).

On another note:
As a joke video, it'd be hilarious to see you ATC for the Microsoft Sim guys and continuously give the same two responses, "get the eff out of my airspace" and "advise when ready to copy a number"

 

[Geosync]

I think that's a big part of it though.. people who don't do this commercially likely don't get much, if any, muscle memory practice and exposure to flying SE

Correct. Part of the reason owner flown, twin piston insurance is so high.

 

[Geosync]

He's losing altitude, and as the ground is approaching he starts pulling back on the yoke to stop the descent. Airspeed decays beyond a recoverable situation and he VMC rolls it.

A series of bad choices were made.
1) He was closer to his departure airport when the failure took place, yet he decided to go to an airport further away.
2) Never declared an emergency
3) losing altitude approaching destination airport. Altitude is your friend, maintain an altitude till over the airport, then descend, not approaching (on one engine)

To add #4, it seems that even at the end if he would have just committed to landing off airport he could have easily made any number of open desert plots surrounding the crash site. Just power to idle to prevent the roll and essentially dead stick it into the sand. High probability of minor injuries.

 

[N1120A]

Correct. Part of the reason owner flown, twin piston insurance is so high.

And part of the reason many carriers offer better deals if you do recurrent.

 

[Peter Anderson]

To add #4, it seems that even at the end if he would have just committed to landing off airport he could have easily made any number of open desert plots surrounding the crash site. Just power to idle to prevent the roll and essentially dead stick it into the sand. High probability of minor injuries.

Maybe maybe not. The percentage of people who survive crash landings in twins is much lower than single engines.


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