COVID Vaccine

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172andyou said:
...It's impressive how firm your opinion is, given that (accurate) admission.
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it's a pretty easy decision for me, I don't 'think' I need to know too much more about the shots than I do, which is very little.......1) I don't like putting drugs that I have no idea what they really are into my body (I don't like taking any prescribed meds really, although I know I have to sometimes) and 2) I've only had the flu once in my entire life. what am I 'protecting myself' against? why do I 'need' to get these shots? my answer is, I don't. and so far I've been 100% right.
 
eman1200 said:
what am I 'protecting myself' against? why do I 'need' to get these shots? my answer is, I don't. and so far I've been 100% right.
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Yup. So far. I personally know someone who had that attitude and died a slow painful death prone in an ICU. And a simple google of "covid denier dies" will show you plenty more. If that's not enough, there are plenty of covid deniers who got mild cases, survived, but killed loved ones.
 
172andyou said:
Yup. So far. I personally know someone who had that attitude and died a slow painful death prone in an ICU. And a simple google of "covid denier dies" will show you plenty more. If that's not enough, there are plenty of covid deniers who got mild cases, survived, but killed loved ones.
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You’re always going to have outliers with anything. If you look at the statistics, you’ll find that the fatality rate is strikingly very low for both influenza and COVID. Besides, some people just aren’t comfortable injecting things into their bodies, I also happen to be one of those people.
 
172andyou said:
Yup. So far. I personally know someone who had that attitude and died a slow painful death prone in an ICU. And a simple google of "covid denier dies" will show you plenty more. If that's not enough, there are plenty of covid deniers who got mild cases, survived, but killed loved ones.
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HAHAHA! no clue how u got 'covid denier' out of this. but sure, keep spreading the fear. it's no wonder we can't have normal productive conversations these days with a response like that. considering the covid death rate is at .06% of the population (fact, not an opinion) or 2.3% of all US covid cases, I stand by my decision and also choose not to listen to you, no offense. the difference is, I respect someone's decision to do it.
 
RyanB said:
You’re always going to have outliers with anything. If you look at the statistics, you’ll find that the fatality rate is strikingly very low for both influenza and COVID. Besides, some people just aren’t comfortable injecting things into their bodies, I also happen to be one of those people.
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The lethality of COVID is at least ten times that for influenza, possibly more. The predilection for long-term sustained illness is many times that for COVID than for influenza.

I may be done arguing about this. It's like wresting a pig. You just get dirty and the pig likes it. Go ahead and get infected, I feel no pity for you. But I feel absolutely horrible for all the innocent folks you infect.
 
eman1200 said:
HAHAHA! no clue how u got 'covid denier' out of this.
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HAHAHAHA! It was what you said. "why do I 'need' to get these shots? my answer is, I don't." That's covid denial. That's how you die. That's how you kill friends and family. That's how the US ends up among the worst in the world in fighting this. That's like the poster child for covid denial.
 
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steingar said:
The lethality of COVID is at least ten times that for influenza, possibly more. The predilection for long-term sustained illness is many times that for COVID than for influenza.

I may be done arguing about this. It's like wresting a pig. You just get dirty and the pig likes it. Go ahead and get infected, I feel no pity for you. But I feel absolutely horrible for all the innocent folks you infect.
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Yeah, I agree. I should know better than to try and bring facts on this subject here. It hasn't ever worked, despite people like you that are actually, you know, doctors.

So, I'll just point out one more thing on my way off the thread. You are correct in saying that lethality is ten times or more for covid versus the flu, but people are also ignoring that something like 20% of covid cases result in long term injury, sometimes lifetime maiming. I know three people who have had covid strokes. They don't show up in the death count, but they are all injured for life - including the one who lost a leg to his.
 
steingar said:
Have you actually met anyone who is "asymtomaic". I haven't. I've met lots of COVID sufferers by now, and not even one of them has been asymptomatic. All have had high fevers and pretty nasty sickness. The "mildest" I've heard about the high fever only lasted one night. Go ahead, get infected. You are playing Russian roulette with your health and the health of anyone with whom yo interact while you're giving off viral particles with every breath.
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How would you know? If they are asymptomatic they wouldn't know without a test.

From WHO:

For COVID-19, data to date suggest that 80% of infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection, requiring oxygen and 5% are critical infections, requiring ventilation.​

I've not met anyone with COVID. At least not that I could tell. Could easily have been asymptomatic, or mild conditions that were not obvious while I was near them. I know a few people (online acquaintances) that have had it, or another family member or friend had it, but no one in-person. Makes sense though as a small percentage so far have gotten it and people are largely avoiding contact with others.

I got a test two days ago, negative. Not antibody test. Just know that I got a negative result from the test on Tuesday.
 
172andyou said:
Nope. That never happened. sars-cov-2 is new and people, much less 50% of people, didn't have immunity to it two years ago.

You are *probably* misremembering that some people in a study of blood given at the very end of last year and early this year had already been exposed.
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I'm "probably" not misremembering. Let's just pretend that it actually happened.

This post was written shortly after I read that article, so it most likely was in the July-August time frame.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...le-scenario-for-covid-19.127613/#post-2959367
 
steingar said:
Most people think of the flu as a 24 hour thing. It isn't. If you haven't thought you were going to die or wanted to do so, you haven't had the flu. And COVID is way worse in terms of infectivity and symptomology.
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I had the flu in January; type A. After a few days of waking up with nasal congestions and feeling like "my batteries were not fully recharged" I went to see a doc. Wanted to see if it was just allergies, or some sinus thing. Found out it was the flu. Pretty shocked. At that time I felt fine; at the clinic. I had taken some Tylenol sinus medicine after getting up, which had drained my sinuses, had been working (from home that day), and it was still in the morning so I still felt fine. I used it as a good excuse to bing-watch shows over the weekend and tell my wife, "the doctor said I should rest". :D

Later that evening we loaded up a truck with junk from the basement; in the process of selling our prior home. The next morning I drove the truck to the dump and unloaded it. This was a U-Haul box truck, not a pick-up truck.

The worst part was until that day I had been going to the office. Fortunately I didn't seem to pass it on to anyone. I really didn't feel bad other than nasal congestion when I woke up and then a little off peak in the afternoons.
 
Zeldman said:
I do not want to get the flu.
I do not want to get pneumonia.
I do not want to get mumps.
I do not want to get shingles.
I do not want to get Covid 19.

I do get shots for all above, except one. And that will happen when it becomes available.

I have read claims that folks with O positive blood, high levels of Vitamin D and take certain allergy meds are less likely to contract Covid 19, so maybe I got that going for me, but I am not going bet my health on that.
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I get the flu shot every year, and have still gotten the flu. I will still get the shot.
I am not old enough yet for insurance to cover shingles vaccine, but lucky me, I am just now getting over shingles.
An MMR shot (maybe) put me in the hospital. But my kids are fully vaccinated.
We'll all get a COVID shot when there's a good one available. And it seems like it might be an annual thing, like the flu.

Vaccinate.
 
steingar said:
Have you actually met anyone who is "asymtomaic". I haven't. I've met lots of COVID sufferers by now, and not even one of them has been asymptomatic. All have had high fevers and pretty nasty sickness. The "mildest" I've heard about the high fever only lasted one night. Go ahead, get infected. You are playing Russian roulette with your health and the health of anyone with whom yo interact while you're giving off viral particles with every breath.
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I have interacted with many many more people that have had covid than your average person, I'm a pharmacist. Most of the people have NOT had the terrible symptoms some have described. Most have been fairly mild with only a couple of people getting really sick......
 
Have you actually met anyone who is "asymptomatic".
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How would we know if we had? If you don't show symptoms, nobody knows you have it, including you.

If asymptomatic responses exist then we have all unknowingly met people who are asymptomatic.
 
bflynn said:
How would we know if we had? If you don't show symptoms, nobody knows you have it, including you.

If asymptomatic responses exist then we have all unknowingly met people who are asymptomatic.
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If you have no symptoms but test postive (and never subsequently show symptoms), wouldn't that be an example of someone who was asymptomatic?

I know someone who got COVID-19 and was hospitalized. His son tested positive but never developed symptoms. 30 days later the son was retested, was negative, and was allowed to return to work.
 
RyanB said:
Those who are asymptomatic may disagree with this sentiment. Lots of people have reported mild cases as well, so it’s no one size fits all generalization here.
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Nailed it!
 
eman1200 said:
it's a pretty easy decision for me, I don't 'think' I need to know too much more about the shots than I do, which is very little.......1) I don't like putting drugs that I have no idea what they really are into my body (I don't like taking any prescribed meds really, although I know I have to sometimes) and 2) I've only had the flu once in my entire life. what am I 'protecting myself' against? why do I 'need' to get these shots? my answer is, I don't. and so far I've been 100% right.
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You're protecting yourself against the shame of killing someone else who doesn't have as good health as you and I do by passing the flu virus on to them, or to someone who passes it on to them.
 
David Megginson said:
You're protecting yourself against the shame of killing someone else who doesn't have as good health as you and I do by passing the flu virus on to them, or to someone who passes it on to them.
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no offense, but I really don't give a flying f#%* about anyone else over me putting strange drugs into my body. I haven't killed a single person by not getting the flu vaccine and as I am one who got tested for covid (I doubt several other folks have who are yapping about it) I also haven't killed one person by not getting a covid vaccine WHICH, if I may state, isn't even friggin available to the general public yet but still you got your fear mongers judging me over not getting it. the other thing is, who knows, down the road once it's tested and validated, I may reconsider, I doubt it, but it definitely isn't due to people trying (very poorly, I may add) to put pressure on others by using feelings and not facts as justification.
 
1RTK1 said:
I have interacted with many many more people that have had covid than your average person, I'm a pharmacist. Most of the people have NOT had the terrible symptoms some have described. Most have been fairly mild with only a couple of people getting really sick......
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wayne said:
How would you know? If they are asymptomatic they wouldn't know without a test.

From WHO:

For COVID-19, data to date suggest that 80% of infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection, requiring oxygen and 5% are critical infections, requiring ventilation.​

I've not met anyone with COVID. At least not that I could tell. Could easily have been asymptomatic, or mild conditions that were not obvious while I was near them. I know a few people (online acquaintances) that have had it, or another family member or friend had it, but no one in-person. Makes sense though as a small percentage so far have gotten it and people are largely avoiding contact with others.

I got a test two days ago, negative. Not antibody test. Just know that I got a negative result from the test on Tuesday.
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I guess I'm at the other end of that spectrum. A colleague died from it a couple of weeks ago, another one had it, and his wife died last week.
 
steingar said:
It depends on the vaccination. There are vaccines that use an attenuated virus, meaning that you do get infection and some disease, but not the full Monty. Goes all the way back to Jenner.

None of the COVID vaccines use virus at all. They are trying to make your body produce a part of virus so the immune system can react to it.
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Reading up on vaccines this year has been entertaining for sure.

I learned that with my autoimmune disorder I must never ever have the attenuated flu virus thing, especially not the nasal spray one, nor even be in the room with someone who has for at least two days.

How the eff I’m supposed to know that outside of Karen and I, I have no effing clue.

As far as the injectable flu shot goes, the science is totally up in the air as to whether it’ll work fine on me or trigger an immune reaction that’ll attack my entire body again. So it’s not the greatest idea.

I’m guessing anything Covid related will be the same stupid thing.

And of course the mass steroid right now probably keeps any antibody forming vaccine from working until I’m off of it but also tempers any real reaction to Covid or anything else...

... except bacterial infections. Those can go full blown insane if they desire.

Thus, the sulfa antibiotic horse pill since March.

Oh boy ... are we having fun yet? LOL.

I guess it’s better than the lady truly and properly diagnosed with eight different autoimmune disorders who hangs out in one of the support groups! LOL.

I have no idea how she’s even alive. The treatments for two of them are contra-indicated. Treat either one it makes the other one worse. Ha.

Thought you’d get a kick out of the above. Yay autoimmune mess plus steroids plus drugs! Covid continues to be, and has been, nearly the least of my risks or concerns.

Y’all are chickens. We need to toughen you up with at least three interacting bigger medical issues so y’all stop worrying so much about Covid. LOL! :)

(Not really. I wouldn’t wish any of this crap or Covid on anybody. It’s just laughable here though...) :)

The mutant says hi!
 
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Cap'n Jack said:
I guess I'm at the other end of that spectrum. A colleague died from it a couple of weeks ago, another one had it, and his wife died last week.
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Damn. My condolences. :(

This stuff sucks.
 
Let me bring the temp of the debate down...well, not to -70c, but a bit.

This virus is sufficiently new, perhaps not new, but only recently discovered, that understanding the transmission vectors, understanding the multiple and varied impacts on people, understanding what might be contributing factors, is chaotic at this point. Everything is being thrown against it in hopes that something will provide some mitigating effect. I find the transmission vectors scary. Both my university and my employer (I'm adjunct faculty as well as an engineer) went completely online on March 20. Other universities in Colorado have been sporadic oncampus/online/quarantine/whatever. Those schools are seeing repeated and growing levels of infections at all levels of concern.

It is not valid to claim X% infection, Y% asymptomatic, Z% fatality and compare to the flu or any other illness. Why? Because there have been decades of research on those illnesses and methods of managing (vaccines, whatever) have proven successful more than not, as well as reducing the mortality rate. We don't know enough about it. As for the mortality rate (now verging on politics) how many of those people would still be alive if everyone followed recommendations for 1) wearing a mask the correct way and 2) not congregating. My church ran online services with no problems.
 
The lethality of COVID is at least ten times that for influenza, possibly more.
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The CDC admits it's very difficult to know how many deaths to attribute to diseases like the flu. However, there were probably around 30,000 deaths last year in the US, with a vaccine for about 50% of the population.

WITHOUT a vaccine, Covid is attributed 250,000 deaths in year, but there are financial incentives to attribute illnesses to covid, so that's probably overstated. It sounds like we can say that at most it's 8 times more deadly, but if we consider a vaccine and no incentives, it might be equal or just 2-3 times worse.

Ultimately, until we can compare apples to apples, we won't know.
 
steingar said:
The lethality of COVID is at least ten times that for influenza, possibly more. The predilection for long-term sustained illness is many times that for COVID than for influenza.

I may be done arguing about this. It's like wresting a pig. You just get dirty and the pig likes it. Go ahead and get infected, I feel no pity for you. But I feel absolutely horrible for all the innocent folks you infect.
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I've learned a lot from your posts.
 
Wife got her first Shingrix and seasonal flu at the same time last week. Reactions to one or both laid her low for 3 days. Injection site for the Shingrix is much more sore, and has a red spot the size of a baseball. Net result, getting both at the same time is probably not the way to go.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Wife got her first Shingrix and seasonal flu at the same time last week. Reactions to one or both laid her low for 3 days. Injection site for the Shingrix is much more sore, and has a red spot the size of a baseball. Net result, getting both at the same time is probably not the way to go.
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Concur. When I got Shingrix the NP that administered it said "you will probably feel bad, rundown, and have flu-like symptoms for a couple of days. That's a typical reaction to the Shingrix vaccine, so no need to get a Covid test unless it lasts longer than 5-6 days." For me, it was about 48 hours.
 
I stumbled upon an article about the shocking number of Flu deaths in my County back in 2018.

The case numbers and deaths were four times higher than COVID in 2020.

Almost all of the deaths were related to comorbidities, so there was no public awareness...
 
My friend in immunology at Hopkins says current vaccine work is successful at reducing symptoms, but not so much at "sterilizing immunity." Thus, positivity rates would stay the same, although hospitalization and death rates should go down. I wonder how that will influence government mandates.
 
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