Sump pump backup

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RonP

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I have a finished basement and a sump pump powered from AC. Once in the 4 years I have lived in my house we lost power for 3 days. That was during a torrential down pour which is the only time the sump bucket fills up. I was at work and my wife was able to get the portable generator out of the garage and snake an extension cord thru the basement window to the sump pump just as the water level got to the top of the bucket.


This had me thinking what happens if we are away since no one is home to get the generator out and connect it to the sump pump. First it has only happened once in 4 years which does not justify the cost of a whole house generator. I looked into a battery backup system and the draw back was if I was away for a week and power was out for more than a few days the battery would die.


What I found was a water powered back up sump pump. It uses city water passing through a venturi and will pull 820gph out of the sump bucket with 40psi of City water pressure. The float on the backup is set to go on above the level the AC pump should have turned on. There are many manufacturers and the one I bought was $190. I had a plumber install it and the total was $820 including tapping into the main water pipe and running a 2nd discharge pipe since it is against code to run 2 sump pumps into one discharge pipe.


Since it is rare city water is ever turned off I have peace of mind when I am away my finished basement will never flood. Pretty cool invention! Hope this was useful info for those having the same dilemma.
 
I have one of those. Just make sure you check from time to time that your sump pump hasn't failed even with power. You can go through a lot of water and not know it. Ask me how I know.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Just make sure you check from time to time that your sump pump hasn't failed even with power. You can go through a lot of water and not know it.
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Best thing to do is get an alarm. We have a Zoeller A-Pak that works very well. It will go off when the water in the septic tank reaches a predetermined level, which indicates something with the pump isn’t working. Of course this is a different setup than what y’all are referring to (basements) but it still applies to those sump pumps too.

We have the joy <sarcasm> of still being on septic, and with the drain field a bit higher in the backyard, a sump pump is generally the only way to keep things moving (pun intended). Usually when we get bad storms and lose power, the Z Pak alarm will go off in rather short order and then we’ll fire up the generator to take over in the meantime. Fortunately in this situation, if the sump pump failed while nobody is home, there isn’t much to worry about as there won’t be any toilets getting flushed. :)
 
Sump pumps with a battery backup do exist.

I once checked out a model called “Ace in the Hole.” It came with a battery box intended to hold a big marine-type battery, to power a 2nd pump if the water level gets too high, due for example to a lack of power to the main AC-powered pump. Configuring the pipes to merge into a single outlet wasn’t trivial, so I didn’t do it, but I suppose a plumber or handyman could gave done it for me.
 
I looked into a battery back up system as I stated. The draw back is the rare occasion we are away for a week and power is out that week the battery will eventually dia charge leaving no back up at all. Not a good solution for me especially years ago when a hurricane left the northeast without power for a week.
 
I built a basement where folks don't. Dual sump pumps, pits inside and outside of the footers, with cross connecting pipes through the footers so if one failed the other could keep up. Automatic switch for electric power to shift to the propane powered generator.

I still flooded my basement when the pumps themselves failed. $40k insurance claim.

Get a water level alarm for the pits and a phone number for a friend when you are away. And consider stacking a second sump pump in the pit at a slightly higher level (a trick I learned from the home inspector when I recently sold the house).
 
Generator, outdoor, hooked up to automatically start and switch over on power outage, with large propane tank. Keep up with the preventative maintenance on the generator so it works when you need it.
 
Solar panels, battery bank, and inverter sized to power two sump pumps (for pump redundancy) through nighttime and cloudy days.
 
Makes me glad to live in a place where we don't have or need basements.
 
I've seen the water powered ones. Seems like a good idea but interesting to hear someone else here has already experienced a "excess" water bill scenario.

In a previous house (my first) I was nervous and installed a battery backup system. The only time it was needed it only ran about 10 minutes. In other words the battery was shot (my fault) but that just speaks of having to always be checking that stuff.

As @Ryanb said - start with an alarm as its the cheapest way to at least detect the problem.

Besides an audible alarm, we have a smartthings hub and a z-wave alarm. That's enough to get it to the hub and the router. The next step is a UPS for the router and hub. When our power goes out the UPS on the "tech" stuff lasts several hours. The cable companies equipment usually lasts about 90min so that gives a 90min to still get a mobile phone message if the water rises above the float. You can also have it flash a room light, etc. If its raining really hard our sump will probably run its first time within 90min. I just need a alarm for if the city power goes out. I do have a wall powered camera that stops working when that happens but its not a immediate alarm.

The other problem with backups, especially those with another pump is that the pumpable volume in the pit is reduced so the main pump cycles even more often! I am thinking the venturi one is smaller.

The ideal (and not "approved") option would be to have a line from the pit into the city sewer drain. Then if it overflows its starts to flow out with no power. Once again not very approved.

If building a house that needs sump pumps I would definitely have 2 pits. Then place a backup in the other pit. Or just a larger basket so it doesn't cycle as much. Hindsight.
 
Do a better job of water proofing your basement, and forget about sump pumps. My basement has been dry as a bone since 1998.
 
bluerooster said:
Do a better job of water proofing your basement, and forget about sump pumps. My basement has been dry as a bone since 1998.
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Where do you live? I've never heard of a sump pump-less basement in the Midwest.
 
To Bluerooster.....this is the OP. For reasons I don’t know since I am not familiar with building codes or construction techniques all basement construction here in the northeast for a stock house use a floating slab for the basement floor. The floating slab does not touch the foundation walls leaving a 1/2” gap between the slab and foundation walls. That makes it impossible to waterproof. A French drain is run under the slab to a sump well hence the need for a sump pump. If not for the sump well and pump water would rise up in that 1/2” gap and flood the basement. If I had a choice I would not go with a floating slab. To make such a change in a stock development house would be a change in plans which have already been approved. For the houses I have owned the builders did not want to change the stock plans and go thru approval again. They preferred to say “no sale” and move on to someone that was happy with the stock house. Maybe if I was building a custom house I could make such demands however the cost of a sump pump and backup is significantly cheaper than the cost of a custom house than a similar house a builder is putting up.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Tornado alley.
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Most people in tornado alley don't have basements. I'm not sure a traditional basement would be desirable in that instance, because it would suck to have you house collapse on top of you seeking shelter in the basement. If it were constructed of reinforced concrete I suppose it'd be fine, but most just resort to a steel or concrete storm shelter built into a closet or out in the garage. Still a pretty low statistical chance for most people in tornado alley to see one, much less get hit by one.

GaryM said:
Anyplace that I live. I need a big, honking' basement workshop. Never seen a house with adequate space for one on the first floor, and I don't want it in an outbuilding.
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Well, that isn't a regional NEED that's a preference lol. Build a house into the side of a hill and then it's not really a "basement" and probably won't need the sump drains/etc. since you'd walk out at grade.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Most people in tornado alley don't have basements. I'm not sure a traditional basement would be desirable in that instance, because it would suck to have you house collapse on top of you seeking shelter in the basement. If it were constructed of reinforced concrete I suppose it'd be fine, but most just resort to a steel or concrete storm shelter built into a closet or out in the garage. Still a pretty low statistical chance for most people in tornado alley to see one, much less get hit by one.



Well, that isn't a regional NEED that's a preference lol. Build a house into the side of a hill and then it's not really a "basement" and probably won't need the sump drains/etc. since you'd walk out at grade.
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Tell that to the town across the river from me that got leveled 5 years ago. Everyone was safe in their basements.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Where do you live? I've never heard of a sump pump-less basement in the Midwest.
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I've done without sump pumps in several houses in the Detroit area.
The current house (built in 1929) had issues with water after heavy rain, but with some effort (grading, extending downspout drains out to the middle of the front yard, some work on interior foundation drains) all is good now.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Most people in tornado alley don't have basements. I'm not sure a traditional basement would be desirable in that instance, because it would suck to have you house collapse on top of you seeking shelter in the basement. If it were constructed of reinforced concrete I suppose it'd be fine, but most just resort to a steel or concrete storm shelter built into a closet or out in the garage. Still a pretty low statistical chance for most people in tornado alley to see one, much less get hit by one.
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It’s a big crapshoot. We had big tornado zip through here back in 2012 and it wiped a friend of mine’s house totally out. He was in the laundry room in their basement, which was the only part of the house that was spared. It was nothing short of a miracle!

Still, like you, I’m not sure I’d take my chances in a basement if push came to shove.
 
RonP said:
To Bluerooster.....this is the OP. For reasons I don’t know since I am not familiar with building codes or construction techniques all basement construction here in the northeast for a stock house use a floating slab for the basement floor. The floating slab does not touch the foundation walls leaving a 1/2” gap between the slab and foundation walls. That makes it impossible to waterproof. A French drain is run under the slab to a sump well hence the need for a sump pump. If not for the sump well and pump water would rise up in that 1/2” gap and flood the basement. If I had a choice I would not go with a floating slab. To make such a change in a stock development house would be a change in plans which have already been approved. For the houses I have owned the builders did not want to change the stock plans and go thru approval again. They preferred to say “no sale” and move on to someone that was happy with the stock house. Maybe if I was building a custom house I could make such demands however the cost of a sump pump and backup is significantly cheaper than the cost of a custom house than a similar house a builder is putting up.
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Interesting. The slab is floating, and unsupported, while the walls sit on a footing of some sort. The slab could just as easy be poured to the walls with bulb stop at the joint. I guess the water table is high? In that case there probably shouldn't be a basement anyway.
Here we pour footing with a key way, then pour wall. The drainage is around the perimeter. The slab is poured on top of the footing, tight to the walls, with a "vapor barrier" between slab and ground. Any rainwater is drained away before it gets inside. Of course our frost line isn't very deep at all. I have pipes only about 6" deep that have never frozen, despite 6" of snow and ice. But we get lots,and lots, of rain. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that water shouldn't be allowed to get under the slab in the first place. It should be drained away before it gets that far. Oh, did I mention that we get a lot of rain?
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Where do you live? I've never heard of a sump pump-less basement in the Midwest.
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Southeast, Dad lives in TX and also has no sump pump. My sister, and pretty much the majority of my family live in TX and none have a sump pump in their basements. Actually, the only basements that I've seen with sump pumps have had other problems causing the water ingress, and should have never been a basement in the first place.
 
Ryanb said:
It’s a big crapshoot. We had big tornado zip through here back in 2012 and it wiped a friend of mine’s house totally out. He was in the laundry room in their basement, which was the only part of the house that was spared. It was nothing short of a miracle!

Still, like you, I’m not sure I’d take my chances in a basement if push came to shove.
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What I've seen in tornadoes, is that the house is blown away, not collapse into the basement. But I've only lived through a couple many years ago.
 
bluerooster said:
What I've seen in tornadoes, is that the house is blown away, not collapse into the basement. But I've only lived through a couple many years ago.
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It's all dependent on the build of the house and severity of the tornado. Most are EF2/EF3 size which isn't likely to collapse a house to begin with. Get a direct hit from an EF5 or EF6 and all bets are off. We have a concrete storm cellar built into our front porch. I would never consider getting into it since I'd have to go outside in blinding rain/hail to enter it most likely at night since it's usually 11pm or later when bad storms reach Tulsa. I'll take my chances in the bathroom under the staircase, lol.
 
bluerooster said:
What I've seen in tornadoes, is that the house is blown away, not collapse into the basement. But I've only lived through a couple many years ago.
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Sometimes, but a good majority of the ‘naders that have come through here, leave a good bit of rubble on or around the foundation of the home. If there was a basement, the inhabitants wouldn’t have fared too well.
 
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