Zip tied rudder pedal covers...

ah, but the reality is that PE doesn't comprise the entirety of the engineering world.

Well the ones without PE probably don't have any better language skills, they just don't advertise it on their business cards. ;)

And, ya, there are those outlier choo choo drivers too. :D
 
Well that now raises the question "Is it illegal if both contact cement and black zip-ties are used, and nobody can find a pen to sign the logbook?"
Just askin'
Yes. Prick your finger and sign it in blood.
 
Seriously? Where does one find these?
There are space grade zip ties. In fact there are thousands of them on large GEO satellites holding harnesses in. When I was in that biz we’d have huge bags of them when we built them up, and not cheapo ones from Home Depot, but NASA certified (allegedly) space ones that don’t outgas in a vacuum.
 
And report that injury on your next medical.
Only if it involves a visit with a medical professional.*

Don’t use anything to prick your finger that may cause you to want to update your tetanus shot.

*If your wife is a nurse, do you have to report it if she puts a bandaid on it?
 
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There are space grade zip ties. In fact there are thousands of them on large GEO satellites holding harnesses in. When I was in that biz we’d have huge bags of them when we built them up, and not cheapo ones from Home Depot, but NASA certified (allegedly) space ones that don’t outgas in a vacuum.
A recent un-scientific youtube review of zip ties had Harbor Freight zip ties as third strongest out of 7 brands and not far from the very top in terms of absolute strength. Rated at 46 pounds and tested at 133 pounds. And they were by far the cheapest. Just FYI.
 
A recent un-scientific youtube review of zip ties had Harbor Freight zip ties as third strongest out of 7 brands and not far from the very top in terms of absolute strength. Rated at 46 pounds and tested at 133 pounds. And they were by far the cheapest. Just FYI.
And you can get them in black to match the rudder pedals.
 
Nothing in the LOI indicates that Part 91 operators are still stuck with only the items in Appendix A,
Curious. Is this based on a personal take or do you know of other guidance on this?

Back when I discussed this topic at several different levels within the FAA, was advised to apply the prevent mx definition to the 43 Appx A(c) list just like applying the definition of a major alteration to the list in Appx A (a). Period. This would have been a big deal for my owner-assist customers to expand their prevent mx capabilities, but unfortunately not all LOIs give direct regulatory relief at the field level. So based on the official discussions I had we stretched the existing prevent mx topics/definition as far as we could while still keeping a foot in the door of Appx A(c) list. And where we couldn't make it work, we looked into an exemption if applicable. Plus in the 10+ years since that LOI I have yet to see any other official movement to change the prevent mx procedures or guidance as mentioned in the LOI either.
 
Curious. Is this based on a personal take or do you know of other guidance on this?

Back when I discussed this topic at several different levels within the FAA, was advised to apply the prevent mx definition to the 43 Appx A(c) list just like applying the definition of a major alteration to the list in Appx A (a). Period. This would have been a big deal for my owner-assist customers to expand their prevent mx capabilities, but unfortunately not all LOIs give direct regulatory relief at the field level. So based on the official discussions I had we stretched the existing prevent mx topics/definition as far as we could while still keeping a foot in the door of Appx A(c) list. And where we couldn't make it work, we looked into an exemption if applicable. Plus in the 10+ years since that LOI I have yet to see any other official movement to change the prevent mx procedures or guidance as mentioned in the LOI either.

While I'll concede it may create issues at the field level, the FAA would have a hard time pursuing an enforcement action against a pilot/owner and claiming that preventive maintenance is in fact limited to Appendix A. Arguing with an ASI about it, I'll agree, is probably going to be difficult. Best option is to be judicious and not get the FAA's attention.
 
OP, did they come off? If not, leave em alone. My aircraft goes from 100 degrees in summer to -30 in winter. The rubber paddles are still there
 
My mechanic uses zip ties. I use zip ties. I keep a selection of zip ties around. Stainless steel ties, GripLockTies, standard Aviall zip ties, and a bucket full of automotive and hardware store types.

If you haven’t tried Grip Lock Ties? You’re missing out!



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Zipties directly on supports collect grit under and vibration turns them into sandpaper. They will wear through the paint at the least. Use the proper adel clamp.
 
Zipties directly on supports collect grit under and vibration turns them into sandpaper. They will wear through the paint at the least. Use the proper adel clamp.
Have had to get several engine mounts repaired after that.

They were intended as wiring bundle ties. They're handy for a lot of other stuff, but they can work against you if you're not careful. They shouldn't be used as a replacement for the proper restraint.
 
You need a better A&P.
That's particularly funny coming from you.

The ties on my Cessna's gear have been there for better than 10 years. No sign of any scuffing of the paint. More impressive is they haven't failed from UV and weather exposure on a plane that's parked outdoors all it's life until a year ago.

The best zip tie standoff lesson I've had came from my DAR who showed me what he wanted to see for standing wire bundles off the engine mount. Go figure.
 
That's particularly funny coming from you.
It isn't funny when your engine mount fails because a zip tie cut the mount.

You've never seen Tom D install a zip tie on any engine mount.
 
the FAA would have a hard time pursuing an enforcement action against a pilot/owner and claiming that preventive maintenance is in fact limited to Appendix A.
Maybe. But there has to be a reason why no one has tried to push this all the way to the top over the years. Considering some of the "challenges" I've seen in the past against other regulations, you would think someone would push this button along the lines of an "owner-maintained" topic. If not bound by the Appx A (c) list, the Part 1 prevent mx definition leaves a lot of gray area open to discussion.
 
Maybe. But there has to be a reason why no one has tried to push this all the way to the top over the years. Considering some of the "challenges" I've seen in the past against other regulations, you would think someone would push this button along the lines of an "owner-maintained" topic. If not bound by the Appx A (c) list, the Part 1 prevent mx definition leaves a lot of gray area open to discussion.


Why push it? The LOI gives a reasonable answer that most can live with. Elevating the question could only get a less desirable answer.
 
Why push it? The LOI gives a reasonable answer that most can live with. Elevating the question could only get a less desirable answer.

Bingo. And exactly why I hate it when people want to ask the FAA to clarify rules or interpretations that are good for pilots. "Clarifying" it is likely to make it worse. For example, the Mangiamiele interpretation. Be careful what you wish for...
 
Why push it? The LOI gives a reasonable answer that most can live with. Elevating the question could only get a less desirable answer.
Why not? Have inquired many times over the years at various FAA levels on various topics with no ill effects? Did I get the answer I wanted? Not always but afterwards I knew exactly where I stood, or where my customer stood, which is more important in my book. But regardless if the LOI gives a reasonable answer or not, it won't do you much good until you or your attorney present it at the Administrative review level, considering the current regulation and Advisory Circular limit prevent mx to those items in Appdx A(c). As mentioned above, an ASI usually isnt interested in any LOIs at his grade level. But to each their own.
 
And... I was wrong. No FAA approved zip ties... Mil spec yes... FAA approvals. None.

But... then, Is this repair "legal?"
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wow, every Piper I've ever flown was like this, I actually just assumed it was how it came from the factory.. not the prettiest but it's simple and gets the job done, keep it smart and simple, right?
 
wow, every Piper I've ever flown was like this, I actually just assumed it was how it came from the factory.. not the prettiest but it's simple and gets the job done, keep it smart and simple, right?

I like to give people and myself the impression that MY Piper is well maintained and not held together with zip ties, band aids and bailing wire.

But that's just me.
 
I like to give people and myself the impression that MY Piper is well maintained and not held together with zip ties, band aids and bailing wire.

But that's just me.
I think you posted some panel pics a while ago, or someone else did? Either way one look at that panel and they'll know it's very well maintained (zip ties on rudder pedals not withholding)
 
I like to give people and myself the impression that MY Piper is well maintained and not held together with zip ties, band aids and bailing wire.

But that's just me.
Tim,
I agree... If it were my plane, I'd certainly show some pride of ownership; as I'm certain you do...

And, being "old school" if I discovered an ongoing or repetitive problem, I'd figure out a way to make a permanent solution that looked good, too.

Or, at the very least use black zip ties until I came up with that solution... Ay?

I did once, on a road trip, stop at an airport (at my destination) to borrow some SS safety wire to hold the headers into the jugs of my moto guzzi replacing bailing wire that I used on the road halfway to destination... Zen, and the art of motorcycle maintenance. My version... On the road.
 
My peddle pads are held on with safety wire. That way when I got the airplane. I saw no reason to change it. But I can at any time.
 
My right side pads are attached with screws. Holes in the pads and rudders. Left side no screws. Zip tied. Looks good and works great.
 
Rgbeard, I gotta ask, what's "IBA: 63413"?
 
I like to give people and myself the impression that MY Piper is well maintained and not held together with zip ties, band aids and bailing wire.

But that's just me.

We know better. :)

(Tim really does have a nice looking plane)
 
I had an acquaintance that used to sell Cadillacs new and used... In the ghetto... Used ones : as long as it's shiny and the radio works.... SOLD! Looks can be deceiving...

That said, I'm sure Tim's "ride" ain't no jalopy..
 
I wonder how many of us would be satisfied with our car mechanics zip-tying a loose rubber brake pedal pad in place.

Aircraft maintenance is supposed to be on a higher level than that. If it looks dorky, it probably is.
 
Most folks don't see a majority of the "inner workings" of their vehicles... Including aircraft. Many don't participate in annuals just toss the keys and say fix it (planes or cars) "call me if there's expensive stuff"

For all we know the a&p told the owner those zip ties are just there til the glue cures... Take em off in a few days....
 
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