Airport temporary closing for auto racing.

I'm surprised by the hate. I think a lot of the bigger sponsors for the race events, and certainly those enough to buy and fund the cars are definitely GA-market targets and should be welcomed at the airport. If I was an airport manager I'd find a way to work with them and ask a few of the locals that had "cooler" airplanes to consider having some of their planes on static display.
 
KSLR has two runways... 18/36 and 01/19....


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I can see both sides of the coin but I lean toward the side of "Airports are for planes". Not just because @tecprotb is my friend and takes me for rides in sweet freaking planes (and the world's oldest / badass classic cars) but I used to be based at his field. There are hangars there that are rented out to fitness clubs and other non aviation related businesses.

I got my plane stuck in the mud and had to be towed out because a soccer mom had to get to her spin class there once and wouldn't yield to me in a plane.
After a 2-3 minute stalemate, I tried to yield to her and got stuck. She drove on and I had to bug the owner of the pilot shop to help me un-stick my plane.

We have race tracks all over the place here.

I haven't dealt w/ airfield closed for racing, but I kind of agree airports are for planes and race tracks are for cars.

Edit: Here specifically, I don't think Airports are hurting for money. I know GA is dying in a lot of places but it is thriving right here at this point in time.
 
$$$$$$ The airport can make more money in one weekend with cars than all year with airplanes. Don't complain or you might see more cars and less planes. Just go someplace else for the weekend.
 
I'm surprised by the hate. I think a lot of the bigger sponsors for the race events, and certainly those enough to buy and fund the cars are definitely GA-market targets and should be welcomed at the airport. If I was an airport manager I'd find a way to work with them and ask a few of the locals that had "cooler" airplanes to consider having some of their planes on static display.

That is precisely what they do here...there are handful of planes on display, some privately owned and some pulled out from the museum.
 
It seems about 50/50 on who likes it and who doesn't. I don't. I pay rent for a hangar at my airport. The rent I pay is for a place to keep my plane with access to a runway I can use. I don't like the idea of not being able to land at my airport. If the city or county wants to make money, they could close down a section of road... but that would impact a larger group of people and they might get voted out of office.

Has anyone seen a plan for the revenue? Does it all go to the airport or into the general City/County Fund? My guess is the latter.
 
Nothing new. BLK in Cleveland has been doing this annually for decades.
 
More recently, there was a group that wanted to do a 5k run at the airport. Again, the answer was a big "no" when proposed to the FAA.

They didn't ask correctly. ;)

I ran a 5K on the runway at Atlanta Hartsfield last year; busiest airport in the world. We ran it on the 5th runway starting pre-dawn.
 
As someone who has done motorsports, I think its OK and a nice source of revenue. As long as a vast majority of the finds are used for airport stuff, and they give enough notice, like a couple months that a/the runway will be closed. Ideally there would 2 runways or a nice parallel taxiway for limited ops while the car guys are running. If an airport can make a 10-15 stacks or more (a stack = AMU) then it may be worth a ****ing off a few guys who forgot the airport was a racetrack that day.
 
They didn't ask correctly. ;)

I ran a 5K on the runway at Atlanta Hartsfield last year; busiest airport in the world. We ran it on the 5th runway starting pre-dawn.

The FAA is typically alright with that as it doesn't shut down the entire operation of the airport. We've done runs at ORD and MDW too with minimal effect.
 
Has anyone seen a plan for the revenue? Does it all go to the airport or into the general City/County Fund? My guess is the latter.

For any event at a federally obligated airport, assuming the airport even asked for approval, all the revenue must go to the airport or it will not be approved.
 
For any event at a federally obligated airport, assuming the airport even asked for approval, all the revenue must go to the airport or it will not be approved.

Evidence to the contrary -

Perhaps the revenue routed through the airport, but in Atlanta the idea for the race came from the mayor's office and the money went to the United Way.
 
For any event at a federally obligated airport, assuming the airport even asked for approval, all the revenue must go to the airport or it will not be approved.

Diversion of funds is not allowed for specific use monies such as airport revenue.

The revenue that an airport realizes from a non-aviation event would be the fair market value that the event sponsors would pay if they held the event elsewhere. At one airport that is $600 to the airport fund for 5 days of use, wear and tear and disruption to the normal airport operations. By the time the event sponsors pay for advertising, prize money, setup, etc, some find it difficult to break even. At this particular event the event planners are trying to call it a 'fly-in' to avoid paying anything to the airport. For an aviation event such as a fly-in airport compensation is waived since it is supposed to bring aviation awareness to the airport.

This is not being said in a negative way. Some airports need to be creative and flexible in order to stay viable in the local public eye. But there are approaches and procedures to be followed without throwing the airports' use and users under the bus. It's all about communication between the BOA, airport users, and public. Some communities are better than others.
 
If it didn't shut down the entire airport, maybe used a runway that wasn't active, ok.

Thinking much of that money goes to anything that helps GA is beyond naive, I'm sure a few cents on the dollar goes towards things which help GA, rest goes to "administration" and other hidden pockets.

Thinking that it's a good marketing tool for GA is even more naive, I'd wager most of those people are so focused on cars they might not even notice it's a airport, the rest probably think it's "abandoned".

I'd also wager no one does a proper FOD check after.

I'm sure the neighbors who might have a issue with some little J3 making noise landing in the afternoon, just looove all the noise coming from CONSTANT screaming V8s and tires ALL DAY LONG, plus all the garbage those spectator types of folks leave behind.


If you think shutting down a GA airport for drag racing helps GA, I got some pet insurance and a bridge in Alaska I'll sell ya :)
 
A fly-in at a closed airport. How does that work?
 
They didn't ask correctly. ;)

I ran a 5K on the runway at Atlanta Hartsfield last year; busiest airport in the world. We ran it on the 5th runway starting pre-dawn.

See below.

The FAA is typically alright with that as it doesn't shut down the entire operation of the airport. We've done runs at ORD and MDW too with minimal effect.

This was the problem with the proposals at the local airport that I was referring to. It would have closed the entire airport.

For any event at a federally obligated airport, assuming the airport even asked for approval, all the revenue must go to the airport or it will not be approved.

I would be 100% behind an event at the airport that would provide revenue to keep it open and also provide exposure to the locals. Many people don't know the city even has an airport or know where it is.

My suspicion is that many of the airports hosting these events never even ask for approval. There are lots of things the ADOs look the other way on.
 
A fly-in at a closed airport. How does that work?

I fly into the racing events we have at runways, I just give the organizer a heads up with regard to the timeframe I anticipate to be arriving and then just announce on the CTAF once I'm close enough.
 
You're confusing things. A federally funded airport can't take fees at the airport and use them for non-aviation things. That's not to say that an entity (other than the airport itself) on the airport can't pocket money. Everything from your FBO or mechanic to the airport restaurant takes proceeds and uses it for non-aviation things.
 
KSLR has two runways... 18/36 and 01/19....

Well, no.

I believe 18/36 has been renumbered 01/19. Also heard that it took a lot of work to rotate the entire airport 10 degrees! ;-)
 
Well, no.

I believe 18/36 has been renumbered 01/19. Also heard that it took a lot of work to rotate the entire airport 10 degrees! ;-)

01/19 is the pavement, 18/36 is the grass.
 
They didn't ask correctly. ;)

I ran a 5K on the runway at Atlanta Hartsfield last year; busiest airport in the world. We ran it on the 5th runway starting pre-dawn.

Working at Eglin AFB tower one day, early 80s a very busy fighter base. Looked down at the runway and noticed a woman was jogging down the runway. I went out on the catwalk around the tower cab and yelled for her to get off the runway. She hollers back, this is a runway? Uh yeah, 10,000 by 300' feet wide. Turns out she was a Major and a nurse on base. Fortunately for her this happened during a lull in flying or else she may have been clobbered by an F-15. Darn it! :D
 
The citizens of Manassas, VA paid the local share for a nice airport to be built and maintained. If they want to close the place for 4hrs once a year to hold a 5k on the runway, I can't get too bent out of shape about it.
 
I am genuinely surprised and dissapointed in the amount of hate in this thread. As a member of the motorsports community, with a budding interest in general aviation, it's very discouraging to hear this kind of negativity and closed mindedness.

I certainly understand the idea that there may be inconveniences related to airport racing events. But if proper rules and organization is implemented it is a very minor and temporary inconvenience, in trade for very major benefits.

The financial one has been brought up already. Both activities require large amounts of long and straight tarmac. Pooling those resources can be a net benefit for everyone in the form of nicer airport facilities, and lower airport fees.

The claim that there is no crossover interest generated is absolutely ludicrous. Motorsports and aviation have always had an intimate cultural relationship. The V8 engine was popularized in the first place because of the radical and impressive WW2 aircraft. Motorsports has also looked closely towards the aviation industry for technical, and technological innovations. We use the term "aircraft-grade aluminum" in reference to the higher grade of aluminum used in aviation.

It is also a subjective opinion of mine that the majority of people I know in the motor sports industry have an interest in general aviation. However most don't know about the opportunities in experimental aircraft, or the relatively new light aircraft categories. The perception is that the general aviation class is too expensive, and that the ultralight is not really an airplane, or has opportunities to flex the technical mind with design and modification.

I can understand the attitude that some airports need to be available for airplanes 24/7/365. At the very least for aviation safety reasons. I do think the FAA could stand to allow racing one weekend a year for the smaller airports, even those involved in the AIP.

But if an airport stands to close due to financial issues, a partnership with the motorsports community can be a life saver. The motorsports community is having a difficult time with tracks financially staying open, not due to demand being too low, but due to regulatory and liability framework. Insurance costs, and operation restrictions, are prohibiting sustainability in anything but the strongest markets.

I'm sure you all know here, we don't get those either of those strips of tarmac back. They either sit dilapidated for decades, or get ripped up.

But they certainly don't open new ones.

Why can't we partner for mutual benefit?
 
You did notice the thread is over 4 yrs old?
 
You did notice the thread is over 4 yrs old?

Yes sir!

I'm sorry if it's annoying. This thread showed up on my Google search and I felt strongly about what was being said.
 
Most of those "drive real fast in a straight line" airport 'races' cost 1-200 per car. Many of them fill up months in advance with 100+ entries.
Obviously the airport, or someone is getting a cut. How much 100LL woukd they normally sell to guys doing pattern work or hamburger runs in that same time frame? If we aren't careful municipalities will figure out they can make more $$$ with less hassle doing this and the runways will be closed more often.
Some of them may sell some 100LL as "blue racing fuel". I ran across a gas station in Pennsylvania one time that sold same. Not exactly legal, but....
 
Some of them may sell some 100LL as "blue racing fuel". I ran across a gas station in Pennsylvania one time that sold same. Not exactly legal, but....
It's legal. You just can't use it for use on the road, you can use it in other vehicles.
 
They didn't ask correctly. ;)

I ran a 5K on the runway at Atlanta Hartsfield last year; busiest airport in the world. We ran it on the 5th runway starting pre-dawn.

KBOS has had 5K's as well
 
I am genuinely surprised and dissapointed in the amount of hate in this thread.

Don't drive on my runway, and I won't land on your racetrack.

Seems easy enough.

For extra credit don't treat the highways as racetracks. But that's too much to ask. I had a "car guy" on my bumper while I was going 75mph in the toll lane. ****er wouldn't back off. I used a little peddle and jumped it up to 110 to create distance. Then I properly spaced for the traffic ahead that was rolling in 75-80. Sure enough... ****er was right back on my bumper.

Oooops... that's off topic. but I felt the same way in 2016.
 
Don't drive on my runway, and I won't land on your racetrack.

Seems easy enough.

For extra credit don't treat the highways as racetracks. But that's too much to ask. I had a "car guy" on my bumper while I was going 75mph in the toll lane. ****er wouldn't back off. I used a little peddle and jumped it up to 110 to create distance. Then I properly spaced for the traffic ahead that was rolling in 75-80. Sure enough... ****er was right back on my bumper.

Oooops... that's off topic. but I felt the same way in 2016.

See but that's the difference. Nobody cares if you land on our racetrack. It's empty 70 to 90% of the time anyways.

And we would welcome any opportunity to improve the financial viability of race tracks and/or improve facilities. We're desperate. We don't have the luxury of a federal agency organization, or public funds for sustainment.

Also, thanks for the elitism. It's not like we're not constantly marginalized even though our existence directly harms nobody. It really helps. And it also makes me want to buy a plane too.
 
We don't have the luxury of a federal agency organization, or public funds for sustainment.

Many airports are private, opened to the public. Not sure who you think is funding them.

Also, thanks for the elitism. It's not like we're not constantly marginalized even though our existence directly harms nobody. It really helps.

How is it elitist to state that car guys drive at dangerous speeds, and are often ****ers? Fact is most of the car guys I know spend lots of money on their cars. Some spend more than I spend on my plane.

Is it elitist that I use my expensive toy in the appropriate place?
 
See but that's the difference. Nobody cares if you land on our racetrack. It's empty 70 to 90% of the time anyways.

And we would welcome any opportunity to improve the financial viability of race tracks and/or improve facilities. We're desperate. We don't have the luxury of a federal agency organization, or public funds for sustainment.

Also, thanks for the elitism. It's not like we're not constantly marginalized even though our existence directly harms nobody. It really helps. And it also makes me want to buy a plane too.

In Colorado, no airport receives any state or local public funds. Around here, everything is funded by aviation fuel sales, hangar rents, land rent to build hangars, etc. Does FAA contribute funds? Less than you might think.

We’d love for you to buy an airplane!
 
Many airports are private, opened to the public. Not sure who you think is funding them.

The intended statement was both benefiting from federal organization AND public funding. As silly as such a thing might sound, a Federal Motorsports Administration would almost certainly improve the motorsports industry.

The vast majority of airports I know of are owned by cities, towns, and counties. These airports are often renovated and improved by the FAA, and by other, local taxpayer funded investment projects. My home town is an excellent example.

Regardless of either point, I consider it elitist to consider an airport the totally exclusive domain of airplanes. Especially when on a functional level, if organized properly, it represents very little to no inconvenience to an owner/operator. And especially when no objective reasoning is given.

And with privately owned airports, the owner alone is the one concerned with having automotive events or not. It's really not even a subject that's interesting to be discussed to me haha.

As for the street drivers, I was not referring to that statement. That's an entirely different conversation.
 
In Colorado, no airport receives any state or local public funds. Around here, everything is funded by aviation fuel sales, hangar rents, land rent to build hangars, etc. Does FAA contribute funds? Less than you might think.

We’d love for you to buy an airplane!

There are no airports owned by small cities or counties in Colorado? Just curious.

Regardless, if an airport is entirely private, it's really up to the owner to decide about hosting automotive events. And if it's organized properly it shouldn't inconvenience or endanger pilots.

I'm sure to some degree private airports have to be concerned about the business they get from local plane owners.
 
There are no airports owned by small cities or counties in Colorado? Just curious.

Most of the public airports in the US were primarily built with Federal money (that's where our avgas taxes go), but are owned and operated by the local fiefdom. The local municipalities get fuel flow fees, hangar rent, lease money, and property tax from the locally based aircraft. Some airports make money, some break even, some lose on that basis. But overall, given the infusion of federal money to build, expand, and maintain the field, the local community generally comes out well ahead of the game overall.

"Oh, but the airport lost money last year." Right. But the local contractor who repaved it last year (using federal funds) made $5M, and that came back to the local economy.
 
I vote for holding a fly in at a racetrack now.
 
As a guy who has a race car sitting in his hangar, I see both sides, somewhat.
Firstly, airplanes should have the right-of-way at airports. While track days are always pure recreation, airplane flights are often business/medical necessities.
The exception- My local airport has large, mostly vacant tie down area that has a bunch of orange traffic cones set up a few times a year where local law enforcement holds their advanced driver training. They use a back gate, do not cross any active taxiways or runways.
On the other hand, sports car clubs are always desperately seeking more track days. Having been a member of multiple car clubs, I've seen pleasant negotiations, combined events where a couple clubs share a track day, and I've also seen clubs DEMAND another club give up some of their scheduled days to make it "fair".

There is plenty of overlap between the airplane crowd and motorsports enthusiasts. When I started racing, I was surprised to find out how many other driver's are also pilots.

While every situation has its own peculiarities, as a general rule, airplanes have the right-of-way at airports, but I'm happy to occasionally squeeze flying over to one side a bit and make room for the car guys. Large slabs of flat pavement are rare. If we can share some, why not? It also brings people with discretionary income onto the airport property, where just maybe a few will think those guys flying look like their having fun, and perhaps wander into the FBO and inquire about lessons.

Also- guys & gals who have gone through the training to get a competition license are NOT the idiots on public roads. After you've gone through Turn 1 at 140 mph, it's no thrill to do 80-90 on public roads. After burning through a pile of adrenaline on the track, one tends to drive very conservatively. After all- there is no longer anybody waving a big yellow flag if there is danger ahead. The track is a very controlled, safe environment, and, like aviation, attracts high-quality people.
 
Regardless of either point, I consider it elitist to consider an airport the totally exclusive domain of airplanes.

WTF? Do you think marinas are not exclusive to boats? Is MY house just a place to sleep and anyone can come at their whim?

As the former Vice President would say, "C'mon man".

[and btw, there are many non-aviation businesses at T67 who all respect that the runway is off limits and the planes taxiing have right of way. it ain't hard]
 
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