GTN650 vs GNS430

luvflyin

luvflyin

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Luvflyin
I’m gonna be getting back up in the air after about a year off. Just found out the planes I’ll be flying have been upgraded from 430’s to 650’s. Any tips, tricks, gotchas etc? And I downloaded the Garmin 650 trainer. I can practice doing frequencies, flight plans, settings and stuff like that, but I can’t make it fly.
 
You're going to like it. Much more intuitive. Just touch things you want to change/view more info. Turbulence does make things a bit more shaky, but not so bad. You will learn to brace your hand/arm.
 
Note that you can use the knob to set frequencies and enter waypoints in turbulence (ie. you don't have to use the touch screen).
Read up on how to set Victor airways in a flight plan - I think that's one advantage over the 430.
I tend to cycle between the Default Nav page and the Traffic page. I hardly ever use the map except when I want to see Nexrad weather. The GTN 650 map makes you realize how useful an iPad is ;)
 
it's almost too easy to learn. the 'home' button brings u to most of where u want to be. hold the home button down to bring u to the default nav page.
 
A tip that I've taught a couple of my instructors - when you have any airport on the screen, such as in your flight plan or on the map, you can touch it then choose information about it. This lets you view information like IFR procedures but also gives you frequencies for the airport. Touch a frequency and it gets loaded into the standby.

Also, when entering a frequency, there is a "Mon" button for monitor. Turn this on and you'll monitor the standby frequency. Broadcasts on the primary will step on the standby.

Otherwise...make sure the GPS/OBS switch is in the GPS position?
 
Don’t assume it has features it lacks. For example, I once tried to rubber-band my flight plan to divert around something, assuming it would make an ad hoc waypoint for me. At least under the software on that unit, it couldn’t and I had to rubber-band my route to a defined waypoint.
 
I much prefer the 650 to the 430. Much more intuitive, much less buttonology. The turbulence thing is overrated - you can use the knobs when needed and also brace on the frame.
 
If it's up close to the glareshield it will help some. You can put your fingers on the shield, and use your thumb to press the screen in turbulence.
The little shelf was made for an elf.
 
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If you use an iPad with foreflight or Garmin pilot I would suggest getting flight stream 510 for it. Then its super easy! You can just do what you want on the iPad and send it to the 650. I went from the 430 to the 750 (pretty much a 650 with a bigger screen) and I would never what to go back!
 
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luvflyin said:
I’m gonna be getting back up in the air after about a year off. Just found out the planes I’ll be flying have been upgraded from 430’s to 650’s. Any tips, tricks, gotchas etc? And I downloaded the Garmin 650 trainer. I can practice doing frequencies, flight plans, settings and stuff like that, but I can’t make it fly.
Click to expand...
Actually, you can make it fly. Sort of. That navigation control which opens with it lets you fly the flight plan, approaches, etc. You can set up common scenarios you have encountered and see how to do them. in the new unit.

Overall, other than the shortcuts provided by the touchscreen - touching a waypoint brings up many choices you would have used knobs and the menu button to get to - you will find much of the logic to be the same or similar to the 430. Garmin is Garmin, after all.

There are, of course some substantive improvements. Personally, I think the two biggest ones are being to load airways directly, not as a bunch of individual waypoints, and the ability to draw an unpublished hold pretty much in the order the clearance gives it to you. If you want to see the hold difference, one of my COVID summer projects was comparing Avidyne and Garmin doing certain tasks. The hold one does runs through it is both the GTN and GNS (and the Avidyne). They are not long. I try to keep al of them under 10 minutes. (Excuse the "typo" of writing or saying GNS when I mean GTN and vice versa - like in that snapshot)

 
+1 for getting a flight stream 510 for the plane with a GTN-650. It’s user installable before flight. One button syncing of flight plans between ForeFlight and the GTN.

I have a FS210 for my own plane with a nice GNU-430W. I hardly ever touch the 430W but to change radio frequencies.
 
You can download the 175/355 sim to an iPad and practice. The 650 UI is almost identical.
 
I have the official garmin GTN training course key with me. I bought one from sportys and did the training when the plane was down for avionics upgrade, and then found out it comes free when you spend obnoxious amount of money on the hardware. Anyway, the code I got from garmin has not been used. If you want it, it’s yours , PM me your email address, I will send a pic. You need to login to the website and redeem it. Then download the iPad trainer and follow along.

Vote for the flightstream 510, will make your life a whole lot easier.
 
Don't bother... you'll just be Direct > Enter like everyone else.
 
AlleyCat67 said:
Note that you can use the knob to set frequencies and enter waypoints in turbulence (ie. you don't have to use the touch screen).
Read up on how to set Victor airways in a flight plan - I think that's one advantage over the 430.
I tend to cycle between the Default Nav page and the Traffic page. I hardly ever use the map except when I want to see Nexrad weather. The GTN 650 map makes you realize how useful an iPad is ;)
Click to expand...
Yep. I have a 750 in my rig, upgrade from a KLN-94. Flight plan on the 750 but find myself looking at the iPad more.

Turbulence isn't worse on a touch screen vs. knob, you get used to it. I thought I'd have that issue when we upgraded but I didn't. If you're flying IFR then spend the time to really figure it out, but, as Ravioli said, Direct To is no big deal.
 
Pilot Workshops has a very good “pilot friendly” guide to the 650. That and the iPad app help a lot.
 
Groundpounder said:
There is a 650 sim for the iPad, works great.
Click to expand...

Got it. I have IPad mini. Every time I look at something else, like maybe Foreflight, the 650 sim resets itself and I have to start over. I open it, start entering stuff, then I want to look at another app like Foreflight, double tap and pick Foreflight. Then to go back to 650 sim I double tap again and tap on the 650 sim. It comes back as if it had just been opened for the first time. Everything I’ve already done is lost
 
midlifeflyer said:
Actually, you can make it fly. Sort of. That navigation control which opens with it lets you fly the flight plan, approaches, etc. You can set up common scenarios you have encountered and see how to do them. in the new unit.

Overall, other than the shortcuts provided by the touchscreen - touching a waypoint brings up many choices you would have used knobs and the menu button to get to - you will find much of the logic to be the same or similar to the 430. Garmin is Garmin, after all.

There are, of course some substantive improvements. Personally, I think the two biggest ones are being to load airways directly, not as a bunch of individual waypoints, and the ability to draw an unpublished hold pretty much in the order the clearance gives it to you. If you want to see the hold difference, one of my COVID summer projects was comparing Avidyne and Garmin doing certain tasks. The hold one does runs through it is both the GTN and GNS (and the Avidyne). They are not long. I try to keep al of them under 10 minutes. (Excuse the "typo" of writing or saying GNS when I mean GTN and vice versa - like in that snapshot)

Click to expand...

How does the load an airway thing work. When I selected load airway it gave the list of waypoints along the airway and I had to enter them one at a time. Big improvement over the 430, one touch instead of click, click, click......enter. Is there a way to have a start and stop point on the airway, then just have it put in all the fixes between ?
 
One of our club planes has a 430W, another has a 650. In smooth air the 650 is great. In rough air the 430W is easier to deal with. You pays your money and you takes your chances.
 
luvflyin said:
How does the load an airway thing work. When I selected load airway it gave the list of waypoints along the airway and I had to enter them one at a time. Big improvement over the 430, one touch instead of click, click, click......enter. Is there a way to have a start and stop point on the airway, then just have it put in all the fixes between ?
Click to expand...
Yes. When you select load airway, it gives you a list. You choose the entry point from the list. The next screen gives you another list. You choose the exit point. The GTN fills in all the intermediate ones.
 
I'll be damned. It flies DME Arcs. Like ya don't even have to know how far from the DME you are. It don't even tell you. It just keeps giving you turns like one degree at a time and keeps you on the 'centerline' of the Arc.
 
The Garmin is my shepherd, I shall not navigate
It maketh me to download updates, it leadeth me to my destination
It restoreth my currency, it leads me on the paths of righteous approaches
Yea though I fly through the sectors of the Center of death, I shall fear no reroute
Thy direct and thy load airway, they comfort me
It preparedest flight plans for me in the presence of FSS
It anointest my email with alerts, my texts they runneth over
Surley, Shirley and thy autopilot shall follow me all the hours of my flight
And I will dwell in the house of the Garmin forever
 
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Salty said:
Another convert to the church of the magenta line.
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People probably said the same about ADF back in the day.

OTOH, if one is using it properly, one is not using the magenta line for primary navigation. Max Trescot made a very good point of that in discussing a fatal accident on his podcast a few weeks ago where he thinks the cause was following the "situational awareness" magenta instead of the "primary" CDI.
 
luvflyin said:
I'll be damned. It flies DME Arcs. Like ya don't even have to know how far from the DME you are. It don't even tell you. It just keeps giving you turns like one degree at a time and keeps you on the 'centerline' of the Arc.
Click to expand...

My 530 does arcs. Your 430 probably did too.
 
Groundpounder said:
My 530 does arcs. Your 430 probably did too.
Click to expand...

If the 530 does I’m sure the 430 does to. I never flew a published arc with it. I did practice using it to fly made up arcs. Put the DME station in as the active waypoint then turned and twisted 10 right on around
 
midlifeflyer said:
People probably said the same about ADF back in the day.

OTOH, if one is using it properly, one is not using the magenta line for primary navigation. Max Trescot made a very good point of that in discussing a fatal accident on his podcast a few weeks ago where he thinks the cause was following the "situational awareness" magenta instead of the "primary" CDI.
Click to expand...

got a link to that!
 
midlifeflyer said:
OTOH, if one is using it properly, one is not using the magenta line for primary navigation. Max Trescot made a very good point of that in discussing a fatal accident on his podcast a few weeks ago where he thinks the cause was following the "situational awareness" magenta instead of the "primary" CDI.
Click to expand...

No disagreement here. But one sneaky use of the magenta line during approach or tracking is finding your reference heading quickly. If you get the magenta line to be vertical (if you are using track-up mode, as most probably are) then your heading at that point is the reference heading. This is the one reason I leave the map view (and not the CDI view) up on my 430 during approaches. If you ever get frustrated finding the reference heading, get the magenta line vertical and start over with the HSI. It's a quick cross-check.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Website Link
YouTube Link (it's only audio, though):
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starts about 39:45, at 40:55 it goes into stuff not about this, then it picks up with detail around 47:30. It makes a good case for he might have been flying the moving map for course instead of the needles. If so it's really strange since the approach has LPV mins and the Wx sure made it seem that's what he would be flying. Ya gotta get your eyes off the Map and over to where the glideslope needle is. That's where the course needle is. Needles of course means them dot's, triangles or whatever indication there is that substitutes for an actual needle.
 
My club has planes with both 430 and 650's Really like the 650's a lot better. In addition to everything else that's been said, the graphics are a lot, lot better. The 430 I had to study up on how to use. The 650 is just intuitive.
 
Groundpounder said:
My 530 does arcs. Your 430 probably did too.
Click to expand...

Yup, the 430 does. In NAV mode it follows it right around. It gives a 'set course to' about every 10 degrees. In heading mode it does the same but does not prompt you to turn to a heading. The 650 gives you an 'Arc R: DTK now ### degrees' annunciation that counts off one degree at a time in either NAV or HDG mode.
 
Another POV. I’m asking our club to put on the long term upgrade / maintenance list to replace the 430 WAAS with a GTN 650.

The 430 is working just fine BTW
 
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