Will I be reported???

luvflyin said:
He was probably very aware of what the tops were and that you'd be cancelling soon. He's got I's to dot and T's to cross. Clearance limit, route and altitude are the minimum elements required in a Clearance. Lets have some fun. You went Nordo. Whatcha gonna do
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Great question! I guess I would squawk 7600 for a few minutes and if I was vfr on top safely, then squawk 1200 and continue on? What would you expect me to do?
 
Piper18O said:
Great question! I guess I would squawk 7600 for a few minutes and if I was vfr on top safely, then squawk 1200 and continue on? What would you expect me to do?
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That, if you knew you'd be able to get back down VFR
 
luvflyin said:
That, if you knew you'd be able to get back down VFR
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It just goes to show how the best intention could have unintended consequences. A guy really doesn't think about all that could happen when at first everything seems so simple.
 
WannFly said:
So a question from a potential IR hopeful, if you want to pickup a pop up clearance , do you have to switch to FSS and file a plan and then request or can ATC get the plan in place for you and immediately give you a clearance ?
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Ask. If The controller isn't too busy, I've found that they will be helpful in that regard. Sometimes the controller is also working another frequency and will send you to FSS. But some facilities don't allow it as a matter of policy. You'll only find out by asking.

Potomac, for example, has gotten a bit better with respect to the SFRA. You're supposed to file with FSS in advance for either VFR or IFR, but a couple of times FSS managed to lose it and the controller was able to give a pop-up, but the policy is that it has to be filed with FSS. I can remember doing circles around the Brooke VOR one day filing with FSS when the "system" lost the flight plan.

You have to ask explicitly. Sometimes the controller will give you hints - sometimes they'll outright prompt you.

Special VFR is much the same: you need to specifically request it.
 
brcase said:
He was probably just trying to get you to ask for an IFR Clearance. He can't give you one unless you ask. Sounds like he bent the rules a bit and gave you one anyway.
Also would the weather have let you ask for a Special VFR?

Brian
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Most likely correct. I overheard something like the following conversation in the air several weeks ago. Frustrating to listen to: Felt sorry for the controller.

Pilot: Ah NORCAL approach, Bugasher 1234. It’s uh getting kinda cloudy here, I might need an approach to Podunk.
NORCAL: Bugsmasher 1234, are you requesting an instrument approach to Podunk:
Pilot: Might need one, ceilings look pretty low.
NORCAL: 34, if you want an approach, you need to request one
Pilot: Sounds like a good idea
NORCAL: Are you requesting an approach?
Pilot: probably will need one.
NORCAL: (Big sigh)It’s a yes/no question. Do you want an approach?
Pilot: I think I will need one to help me get in to Podunk.
NORCAL. Bugsmasher 1234. Listen up. I’m going to ask you a question. I want one of only two responses from you. I want to hear either Yes or No. I don’t want to hear anything else. Here’s the question: ARE YOU REQUESTING AN APPROACH TO PODUNK. YES or NO?
Pilot: (in a small voice) yes
NORCAL: Are you rated and equipped?
Pilot:Uuuhhh , yes?
NORCAl:State approach request.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
..."In an emergency, a pilot may deviate from any rule in this chapter in order to deal with the emergency..." (with the caveat that (s)he may have to explain how the situation deteriorated into an emergency.)

Jim
 
The odds to get a pop up clearance go up with a concise initial call-up that contains the necessary elements the controller needs to create a strip. 'Uhhs' and 'ahhs' increase the odds of being sent to FSS.
 
weirdjim said:
..."In an emergency, a pilot may deviate from any rule in this chapter in order to deal with the emergency..." (with the caveat that (s)he may have to explain how the situation deteriorated into an emergency.)

Jim
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Only if priority is given.
 
AggieMike88 said:
My "take what has happened and learn from it" comment is the following:

Once the nerves/emotions of the incident settle out, get with a good CFI-I and review the what happened and how it happened of the entire incident. Pick the entire flight apart to discover and discuss the different links of the failure chain.

From this discussion develop a lesson or three of ground and flight to improve your skills and your confidence in recognizing the correct action and doing it.

Then get out there and practice and resharpen your skills.
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This is Great Advice!!!
 
Salty said:
That music was very irritating
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Hahaha... I was just scrolling down to say that video would have been a LOT better without the whiney hippie in the background.
 
Salty said:
That’s a good question. I read it somewhere but can’t find it now.
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91.123(d) perhaps?

(d) Each pilot in command who (though not deviating from a rule of this subpart) is given priority by ATC in an emergency, shall submit a detailed report of that emergency within 48 hours to the manager of that ATC facility, if requested by ATC.
 
smv said:
91.123(d) perhaps?

(d) Each pilot in command who (though not deviating from a rule of this subpart) is given priority by ATC in an emergency, shall submit a detailed report of that emergency within 48 hours to the manager of that ATC facility, if requested by ATC.
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Bottom line is, if you declare an emergency to ATC, it’s up to him to file a report to Flight Standards. You can quibble over the definition of priority, but realistically once the emergency is declared and you have ATC’s attention, you have priority.
 
Wooof said:
Honestly, I didn’t have any idea about pop-up ifr until I searched about it when I get home. I have never learned about it before. Could you let me know what is the proper way to request pop-up ifr? Thank you for your comment
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I’d recommend asking your instructor. You paid for services yet to be rendered.
 
Pop up clearances where something I knew about before my PP check ride. My CFI had to file one the day before as we were heading back north to KOLM. Not a big deal, just call ATC and file. We were in the vicinity of KPDX at the time (IIRC, it was 19 years ago) and there was no problem or delay getting the clearance. Things got interesting once we punched into a cloud and that 182 iced up almost immediately, but that's another story.
 
How not to get a pop up.


I’d your not sure what to do. Think WWJD, then do the opposite.
 
benyflyguy said:
How not to get a pop up.


I’d your not sure what to do. Think WWJD, then do the opposite.
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Also, how not to respond when inadvertently entering IMC.
 
During my instrument training, we covered AND flew every scenario. Phone clearance, RCAG, Composite plan due to terrain and MEA/MVA, pop up, cancel on the ground, cancel in the air, depart VFR from nontowered and pick up in the air, etc. You should be able to do all of these things, with confidence, and also be able to assert yourself when needed.

Pop ups are common in this airspace. Both thanks to routings (some preferred IFR routings can add a lot of time to a flight) and because the marine layer can move in quickly and at unexpected times.

Wooof said:
Honestly, I didn’t have any idea about pop-up ifr until I searched about it when I get home. I have never learned about it before. Could you let me know what is the proper way to request pop-up ifr? Thank you for your comment
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You should yell at your CFII
 
PaulS said:
Damn, missed it, it was taken down, who was it?
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Jerry Wagner, or 'the usual suspects'.

cliff notes: flies into a smoke cloud, then steps on everyone else until he gets his pop-up clearance, pushes for priority because he has 'zero visibility'....
 
Boone said:
Jerry Wagner, that guy defies the laws of averages.
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weilke said:
Jerry Wagner, or 'the usual suspects'.

cliff notes: flies into a smoke cloud, then steps on everyone else until he gets his pop-up clearance, pushes for priority because he has 'zero visibility'....
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Wow, well his videos are "not instruction" and just for "entertainment". :rolleyes:
 
PaulS said:
Wow, well his videos are "not instruction" and just for "entertainment". :rolleyes:
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Oh, they are instructive. Just like you can learn from watching someone run their boat aground on the wrong side of the channel marker.
 
I agree, this is an excellent opportunity for learning. The most succinct explanation of obtaining a Pop Up IFR clearance I've heard is on Jason Miller's "The Finer Points" podcast from 6/18/2018, "Filing in Flight." https://podcast.app/filing-in-flight-aviation-podcast-e34765539/ It's only 15 mins and tells you everything you need to know. The student in this example is far from perfect but manages to get an IFR clearance in the air while not stressing out ATC too much in the process.
 
Cogito said:
I agree, this is an excellent opportunity for learning. The most succinct explanation of obtaining a Pop Up IFR clearance I've heard is on Jason Miller's "The Finer Points" podcast from 6/18/2018, "Filing in Flight." https://podcast.app/filing-in-flight-aviation-podcast-e34765539/ It's only 15 mins and tells you everything you need to know. The student in this example is far from perfect but manages to get an IFR clearance in the air while not stressing out ATC too much in the process.
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Of course that was really not a "pop up IFR" but really just filing a regular IFR flight plan from a point in the air. Once when I was flying VFR, and I don't remember exactly where I was, I contacted ATC to get flight following. 'The response I got was that he didn't have time for me. It was very hazy and I almost always get flight following if flying VFR, especially in conditions like that. His attitude irritated me a little, so I immediately found a flight service frequency and air filed IFR to our destination. It took about 3 minutes. I immediately called the controller right back to pick up my IFR and he then had to take me. It seemed to irritate him even more, but then he had no choice. I thought his attitude was certainly less than desirable, especially because 99 percent of the time I think the air traffic controllers are fantastic. I appreciate them so much. The professionalism and the helpfulness is nearly always first rate.
 
Anyone ever file with ForeFlight while airborn?
 
dans2992 said:
Anyone ever file with ForeFlight while airborn?
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Not ForFlight, but Garmin Pilot.

Had a plan filed on the ground Point A > Point B > Point C. Before leaving Point A, we did three trips around the pattern. During that time, GP activated and then closed the A>B>C flight plan I had filed. Climbing out from A, I quickly created, filed, and activated a new flight plan.
 
PaulS said:
Don't see why that would not work, unless you can't get a cell signal.
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The antennas are really optimized to keep the signal where 99% of the subscribers are. I can often get a signal at 7-8000, sometimes enough to update the radar image. If you get sent to flight service, it may be worth a try to file via FF.
 
TommyG said:
Be sure to call yr CFII and thank him for skipping out on important items that should have been covered in training.
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Agreed. And then maybe consider spending some time with a different CFII to try and figure out what else the first instructor may have forgotten to teach you.
 
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