Thinking about a Bus/RV

[Tom-D]

Winter. ?? what's that..
We simply keep a little heat on.

 

[gkainz]

Welcome to RVing, Ted!

Lots of good stuff out there, as I know you know. There's a good RV forum (owned by Good Sam or Camping World now) for reference, I used to use rv.net but now have switched portals to trailerlife.com, as it has ended up being the most reliable portal for me.

I'll try to include links but google may be faster for below:

After reading a bunch of the latest posts, trying to shotgun some responses:

- summary of 12V systems, support, basic info, etc at "The 12V side of life" http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm
- google "rv electrical system explained" for links that detail the house and coach sides of the systems and how they integrate, as well as the 12VDC and 110VAC parts of the system.

- "12V voltage regulator sort of thing" mentioned above - look at Electrical Management System (EMS) - Progressive Industries seem to be the industry leader

- Black tanks - google "geo method" for keeping them clean and compatible with septic tanks

- batteries ... used to be 12V Deep Cycle lead acids were the standard, then 6V Golf Cart lead acids, AGMs of different brands, styles, sizes and voltages, now the front running experimenters are using lithium Ion, LifePO, etc ... pros and cons to all, including initial cost, Cost of Ownership lifetime, charging systems, environmental issues (temperature for storage, use, charging, etc).
- In my 5th wheel, last year I replaced 4 (10 year old - yeah, got my $$s worth out of those) 12V 85 AH deep cycle marine lead acid batteries with 2 6V 120 AH Golf Cart deep cycle lead acid from Costco (under $100 each) and installed 200 W solar panels and charger. I generally don't use or need an invertor for anything, as my most critical need is my CPAP, which runs off 12vdc (actually needs 24VDC but has a 12v - 24v converter and cord). I also have a Honda 2000 portable generator for my wife's essential 110vac needs - hair dryer and curling iron - but not simultaneously. Most of our RVing spots have electrical, and my fall hunting trips are boondocking but the solar keeps my batteries up to provide power to everything I need, and I can augment with the generator as needed. I have an RV fridge, not residential, so much less 110VAC needed for me.

- my in-laws have upgraded the battery and solar on their class A coach with enough 12VDC and Inverter to be fully off the grid, including running A/C as needed. Not sure of all the specs on what he's done, but he didn't do it all at once in the solar panels - added on as needs dictated. The problem with that is upgrades to solar panel efficiency and output causes a "add on or replace" decision, and battery banks are best built with same age batteries. The forum experts I read recommend an energy audit on the coach, your needs and wants, and build the solar panels, chargers, battery banks and inverter to meet the needs as you define.

-- this guy www.loveyourrv.com has a pretty decent blog on upgrades, but again, it's fifth-wheel specific - enough similarities to coaches but not everything is exactly the same. His battery upgrade write up is here https://www.loveyourrv.com/upgrading-my-rv-battery-bank-and-12-volt-system/

 

[Ted]

Well, I'm about 99% sure that the house batteries are toast. 10.4V this morning walking outside, and I had nothing turned on overnight. Now, I didn't have the breakers all turned off so I suppose there's a possibility of something drawing that I didn't notice, but I think there's enough to indicate that these are probably toast. I also could have been remembering incorrectly about what the house batteries were doing overnight, in part because I didn't understand the differentiation between the house batteries and the engine batteries as far as what powered what.

So, next to decide what to do. I'd read up on the Costco/Sam's Club 6V RV batteries being popular options, and just buying 4 of those and throwing them in should get the job done, but I have to look into it some more.

 

[Everskyward]

Could you get a lav cart on a small trailer like they use on airplanes and tow it over to the septic?

 

[Ted]

Could you get a lav cart on a small trailer like they use on airplanes and tow it over to the septic?

That seems like more work than would be logical. Probably the best option is one of those things that hooks up to the drain from the RV and then adds a water blast to break up the "output" so to speak, and forces it down a standard 3/4" garden hose.

 

[Ted]

At this point I've tested all of the appliances for functions and all of them are working correctly on all their functions. The water heater and fridge work on both propane and AC electric, so important to check both. Yep, it all works. Water heater produces a good hot water, fridge and freezer cool well for both propane and AC. Ran the washer/dryer through a wash and dry cycle. Neat that you can set it to just go straight from wash to dry and let the whole thing do its thing. It's accessible with the slides in, so theoretically you can run it going down the road. Furnace (LP) works, as does the heat pump. Last night I checked the TVs, they work too. All good stuff.

Laurie's about to start painting in here, I'm working from the motor home today.

 

[Llk]

One of the things about the battery monitors I have in the coach is that they help troubleshoot draw- shunt at the battery obviously included with the purchase.

A forgotten light underneath in the storage bins. Inverter left on. Determining the exact inverter draw (surprisingly higher than I had expected)..and LED bulb drawing a bit too much current...incandescent lights that use too much and need to be moved over the LED...it shows positive or negative amperes into the battery bank, amp hours consumed overnight, voltage for both banks, you name it.

The monitor tells it all.

I think I’ve seen them on eBay for $150 or less.


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[3393RP]

Today,, I helped a guy with his brand new NEWALL. no one is exempt his coach is 2 million buck coach.

Back when I was racing, many of the drivers owned Newell coaches. They are incredibly nice, with features you would find in custom homes.

Once, after arriving at a track on Thursday for a weekend race, I was taking a shortcut to the garage through the coach lot. As I passed Paul Tracy's coach, the door flew open, and Paul came down the steps carrying a good sized cardboard box and cursing. There was a trash barrel near the coach, and he threw the box, which was full of food items, into the barrel.

I started laughing and asked him what in the world was going on. He told me as he was turning off the highway into the track, a car had cut him off and he had to jump on the brakes. That caused the door of the oversized refrigerator to fly open, and all of its contents had ended up the floor.

So, even coaches that cost upwards of $1.5M have their issues.

 

[Ted]

This is the inverting controlling thingy:

What I've noticed on it is that as soon as I shut off the generator the amp draw is very minimal (0-2A max) but the voltage steadily drops. After an hour or so (maybe less) it hits 11.6V or so and then shuts off the inverter. Then it keeps on dropping to 10.4 or so. This morning it was 10.0.

So, I'm pretty confident the batteries are dead.

 

[Tom-D]

This is the inverting controlling thingy:

What I've noticed on it is that as soon as I shut off the generator the amp draw is very minimal (0-2A max) but the voltage steadily drops. After an hour or so (maybe less) it hits 11.6V or so and then shuts off the inverter. Then it keeps on dropping to 10.4 or so. This morning it was 10.0.

So, I'm pretty confident the batteries are dead.

That's a pretty good sign.
Don't give up yet. the battery may be sulfated

https://www.chargingchargers.com/tutorials/battery-desulfation.html

 

[Skip Miller]

This is the inverting controlling thingy:

So, I'm pretty confident the batteries are dead.

If you are going to replace the batteries anyway, you will obviously need to disconnect them. Why not fully charge them, then disconnect them, overnight them, then check the voltage. With no possibility of parasitic discharge, your “pretty confident” can ramp up to “sure”. Measure twice, cut once.

But I agree it sounds like they need replacement.

-Skip

 

[Bell206]

I'm pretty confident the batteries are dead.

Considering how many batteries you have around, may want to invest in a battery load tester. I have 2, a higher end one for checking aircraft batteries and a $40 Schumacher for everything else. HF also carries a couple which work fairly good. A load tester takes care of the guess work in minutes, plus takes any vehicle charging system out of the equation if T/Shooting problems.

 

[Tom-D]

Your MAGNUM charger has a build in de-sulfated.(We have the same one)

 

[Zeldman]

That caused the door of the oversized refrigerator to fly open, and all of its contents had ended up the floor.

My first 5th wheel had a really nice pantry with a rack of shelves that slid out. I loaded up for my first trip with everything I needed and wanted. 50 miles later I stopped to check everything out. The pantry door was open, the rack of shelves had slid out and everything was on the floor.

Soooo..... I thought to myself, that is what that lock on the bottom of the rack is for.....

 

[denverpilot]

So, I'm pretty confident the batteries are dead.

With Toms need that you already have a desulfating charger, yeah. Sounds like internal self discharge.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I'm a little surprised that RVs don't have the cabinet hardware that many mid-size boats/cruisers utilize, where the knobs have a push-button function to lock them closed when underway or in rough seas.

 

[Ted]

I'm a little surprised that RVs don't have the cabinet hardware that many mid-size boats/cruisers utilize, where the knobs have a push-button function to lock them closed when underway or in rough seas.

What this RV has anyway are clips on the inside of the door. Currently removed for the painting we're doing, but it's a hard push/pull to close/open and they lock that way.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

That seems like more work than would be logical. Probably the best option is one of those things that hooks up to the drain from the RV and then adds a water blast to break up the "output" so to speak, and forces it down a standard 3/4" garden hose.

Learjets have poop grinders to utilize small diameter pipes. Who doesn't need a 30k poop blender?

 

[Matthew]

Years ago, just before our company Christmas party, our HR lady was worried we'd steal the goodies out of the breakroom refrigerator. So she put a chain and padlock around it. All that did was make it "game on"!

I bet she'd have some ideas on how to keep cabinet doors from popping open.

 

[denverpilot]

Years ago, just before our company Christmas party, our HR lady was worried we'd steal the goodies out of the breakroom refrigerator. So she put a chain and padlock around it. All that did was make it "game on"!

I bet she'd have some ideas on how to keep cabinet doors from popping open.

LockPickingLawyer has entered the chat...

LOL

 

[Matthew]

LockPickingLawyer has entered the chat...

LOL

Heh - it wasn't even that hard. Only a couple screws fastened the handle to the door. Remove the handle, the chain falls off, and viola! Cold BBQ meatballs for everyone!

 

[Tom-D]

The only door that the Newmar didn't have was a Pantry, guess why it does now.

 

[Everskyward]

Learjets have poop grinders to utilize small diameter pipes. Who doesn't need a 30k poop blender?

Haha, I remember the 55 having a grinder. The 35s had cassette toilets. In thinking about getting the 'output' into a 3/4" garden hose, I'm guessing you would need a grinder. Not sure if a water blast would do it.

But who knows, maybe that would work. What is the diameter of the outlet in the RV?

 

[denverpilot]

But who knows, maybe that would work. What is the diameter of the outlet in the RV?

Without looking it up they’re about three inches in diameter.

Usually see the RV crowd start grinding / macerating pumps when they want to adapt down into a smaller pipe to travel a long way at a dump station or something along those lines.

Otherwise it’s just gravity and lots of flush water. Many tanks have built in sprayers inside to hook water to and kinda hose out the tank without actually having to try to stick a spray wand down the toilet, but people do that too.

And you were asking about carts... they do make plastic carts with sturdy handles and wheels that people dump into and then wheel their poo around the campsites to the dump station for rigs that are stationary and the owner doesn’t want to move them, like full timers in winter who’ve added insulation or skirting around the bottom of their rigs while parked. And maybe a snowdrift against one side. LOL.

Soooo many ways to move poo. Mel Brooks and History of the World seems to apply...

“Indoor plumbing! Indoor plumbing! Get it here! Pipe the **** right out of your home!” LOL!

 

[Llk]

This is the inverting controlling thingy:

What I've noticed on it is that as soon as I shut off the generator the amp draw is very minimal (0-2A max) but the voltage steadily drops. After an hour or so (maybe less) it hits 11.6V or so and then shuts off the inverter. Then it keeps on dropping to 10.4 or so. This morning it was 10.0.

So, I'm pretty confident the batteries are dead.

That’s a Magnun RC50 remote, likely tied to a Magnum 2412 inverter. There’s actually a bit that will start your generator automatically if the batteries drop below a particular voltage. It’s a decent inverter, and the advantage is that if it ever goes tits up, they’re still currently manufactured and easily replaced versus the more custom stuff with a bunch more features that’s not so easily replaced.

Your batteries sound like toast...once you replace them you’ll move on to the next fun challenge


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[Ted]

I need to check into the Magnum thing more. Yesterday with the inverter turned off I noticed the solar charger did pull the batteries up from 10.something to 11.something (I think about 10.0 to 11.4). But as soon as I turned on one of the vent fans, it brought the batteries down to 10.something. So, the solar panel works, but it does seem like at least one battery is bad and it won't let them be above that mid 11s on voltage. I still haven't pulled the batteries to charge individually and let sit overnight to check again. I'll do that, just haven't gotten to it.

I've been piddling when I can on little items here and there. Generator has new oil and filter, I'm starting to put the new headlights in. 2 out of the 4 shocks are in but I haven't changed those yet, and I need some hardware to get that fan for the AC condenser in, then I just have to wire it up.

For the light fixtures, I put the ones back that I could where Laurie had finished painting, including one of the new fixtures. I then had to order 12V bulbs with the standard E26 base. Found some attractive LED edison-looking ones with a good color, so that's set.

The sconces we'll be putting on the wall will need to have on-off switches on them since that's how the current ones are mounted. So I ordered a couple of switches that will match and be discreet for that. Should look nice. I can't put those up yet, though, since Laurie hasn't finished painting those parts.

Today when I'm running some errands I'm hoping to stop by the Cat dealer to pick up the bits I need there. Continued progress, bit by bit.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

Do you have a "deadline" for when you need your upgrades done to do your first road trip?

 

[Ted]

Do you have a "deadline" for when you need your upgrades done to do your first road trip?

We’re planning our first trip for the last weekend in August, but it could skip into September if need be.

To be clear, we just have some things we’re doing before the first trip. We also have other items that we’ll do later as time allows, but these first things are the ones that are either necessary for reliability/safety or the most logical order since we’re not “moved in” yet.

We don’t imagine we’ll do the tile backsplash before our first trip, for example, and we aren’t going to redo the bedroom before either. Those will be things we can do later. However we will replace the mattress. Just still deciding with what.

 

[Ted]

New headlights. Really updates the look. I’m doing HIDs for the low beams.

 

[Matthew]

We’re planning our first trip for the last weekend in August, but it could skip into September if need be.

To be clear, we just have some things we’re doing before the first trip. We also have other items that we’ll do later as time allows, but these first things are the ones that are either necessary for reliability/safety or the most logical order since we’re not “moved in” yet.

We don’t imagine we’ll do the tile backsplash before our first trip, for example, and we aren’t going to redo the bedroom before either. Those will be things we can do later. However we will replace the mattress. Just still deciding with what.

There are plenty of decent choices for a shake-out trip. It's going to be a learning experience for all of you, so making sure the kids have fun is a big deal. Probably, in my case, I'd be looking at a campground near a lake with a swimming beach. But with schools getting ready to open, there are going to be a lot of people wanting to get in that one last trip so places like that could be pretty busy. And since your kids are sort of "free range" with respect to living outside vs living in front of a TV they'll probably have a good time exploring trails, too.

 

[gkainz]

I noticed you mentioned LED lights ... one of the biggest dc power reduction I made was by replacing every 12VDC incandescent bulb with LED.

 

[SoonerAviator]

New headlights. Really updates the look. I’m doing HIDs for the low beams.

Careful with the HIDs in non-HID housings. The halogen-style projector housings don't have the cutoff like HID-projectors do, so you'll end up blinding oncoming drivers. Just make sure to pay attention to how they are aimed to minimize that issue or everyone will be flashing their brights at you, lol.

 

[Ted]

Careful with the HIDs in non-HID housings. The halogen-style projector housings don't have the cutoff like HID-projectors do, so you'll end up blinding oncoming drivers. Just make sure to pay attention to how they are aimed to minimize that issue or everyone will be flashing their brights at you, lol.

That was the case for a while with the early ones, but I haven’t had issues the past 5-10 years with good quality conversions

 

[Ted]

A few more items checked off the list for the RV today.

New fuel filter on. There were a lot of tutorials on how to do it. Cat specifically says not to pre-fill it, but then there are different ways to prime the system. I tried bumping the starter which lets the lift/boost pump run for a bit and that seemed to do the trick. After starting it it settled into a very nice idle immediately. Per the instructions I got the engine up to 1000-1500 RPM and at one point it got an air bubble and bogged down briefly, but a few seconds later was back to normal. Ran it for a few minutes like that to make sure it was running well and also get the oil warmed up a bit before changing it, shut it off.

Oil, again, no issue. But with a 19 quart sump (so a 5-gallon bucket does the full engine) you need a pretty big drain. My drain pans are 3 gallons each and I didn't have any empty 5-gallon buckets sitting around, so had to deal with that.

Windshield wipers just arrived, so I'll get those done.

Over the weekend I'll probably change the shocks out and I will also need to go buy some more hardware to get the fan for the air conditioning condenser mounted (got the wrong stuff yesterday, but have a better idea what I need now). At that point, the last item I'll need will be to do the HEUI supply line update kit, and I think Cat sold me the wrong part for that just looking at it...

 

[denverpilot]

 

[Ted]

When I called the Cat dealer the fellow knew exactly who I was and was very apologetic about getting the wrong part in, he was concerned about it messing up our trip plans. I appreciated the concern but assured him that I had enough time to get it done. I appreciated that, he was a nice fellow. Maybe they'll sign me up for shop pricing if I keep on buying things there.

So the new part should be in tomorrow, I'll probably pick it up Wednesday. No big deal. I still have the shocks, headlights, need to diagnose why the taillights won't come on, and reassemble the interior. So no big deal.

I started getting the headlight wiring together. Unfortunately and for reasons I don't fully understand, Holiday Rambler took the 2000ish Ford Explorer light housings but mostly used different wiring. Those headlights are complex with 4 different connectors, and for two of them the RV guys did completely different wiring. All of that means that I'm having to do some extra work in terms of tracking down which wires are which and putting them all together. Not a big deal, but some extra steps.

The other issue is the new headlight housings are slightly larger than the stock Explorer ones. I saw a few people complain about that but seeing as this is an adaptation of these units and not the original application, it makes things harder. I can tell there's some level of interference, what I can't tell is whether or not it will matter.

Also, the way they hacked together some adapters for the headlights makes aiming requires putting the screws for the headlights in different positions. We'll see how that all works out but it won't be simpler. I'll try to get the things aimed as well as I can from the get go.

 

[MIFlyer]

I have to say Ted, you've actually got us considering letting go of the airstream and buying a motorhome. The idea of running down the road while the family gets snacks and uses the bathroom seems so much better than the backseat of the truck.

 

[Tom-D]

I started getting the headlight wiring together. Unfortunately and for reasons I don't fully understand, Holiday Rambler took the 2000ish Ford Explorer light housings but mostly used different wiring. Those headlights are complex with 4 different connectors, and for two of them the RV guys did completely different wiring. All of that means that I'm having to do some extra work in terms of tracking down which wires are which and putting them all together. Not a big deal, but some extra steps.

The other issue is the new headlight housings are slightly larger than the stock Explorer ones. I saw a few people complain about that but seeing as this is an adaptation of these units and not the original application, it makes things harder. I can tell there's some level of interference, what I can't tell is whether or not it will matter.

Also, the way they hacked together some adapters for the headlights makes aiming requires putting the screws for the headlights in different positions. We'll see how that all works out but it won't be simpler. I'll try to get the things aimed as well as I can from the get go.

Another thing I love about NEWMAR,,the parts guy knows who I am, anything I need I tell him and comes to us next day.
But he usually tells us the NAPA part number for lenses

 

[Tom-D]

I have to say Ted, you've actually got us considering letting go of the airstream and buying a motorhome. .

Are you serious ??
https://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/rvs/d/hoodsport-newmar-class/7172819432.html

and in your back yard.
private seller

 

[PPC1052]

I have to say Ted, you've actually got us considering letting go of the airstream and buying a motorhome. The idea of running down the road while the family gets snacks and uses the bathroom seems so much better than the backseat of the truck.

Are seat belts an issue?