Know anyone with Coronavirus?

[denverpilot]

I did offer a workable solution, The same as successful countries. Shut down for 3-4 weeks. Stop all travel. 1 person goes out once a week for food. As you alluded, the Greatest Generation won the beaches and silenced the machine guns. All we had to do was sit on out butts for a few weeks. We can't even do that. Some states that tried to shut things down had armed protesters. We can still do shut things down for a month and open schools in September.

That’s in the past. I said a workable solution now. Bitching about yesterday is useless. Won’t change how people behave next time at our scale, either. Because next time it won’t be the same problems.

So again I say... so what? We made mistakes. They weren’t unpredictable ones either. You do what you wanted, half the country (rightly) screeches it’s completely inappropriate for their area.

Most of it still is for a couple hundred million where nothing is really going on. It’ll be appropriate when the thing gets there. If time of exposure is even high enough.

Triple digit deaths are fifty miles from here. Two deaths here. The city kids over there to the west have some problems. Not huge ones. Busiest hospital topped out at 350 going on three months ago.

Some other places? Yeah they’ve got a fire to put out. Thousands of miles from here to one of those. They’ll head for the city too, so I’ll wave as they fly or drive by. City can do as it pleases with them.

I stuck my nose in the suburban edge that had six new cases last month to eat dinner out last night. Truly terrifying. LOL. Probably dead by Friday.

The household nurse saw a couple hundred people last week, so we know where our real risk vector is. The city kids would lose their minds if she decided not to show up. She’s gonna show up anyway, so no worries there.

Have I mentioned that fire roasted Brussel sprouts are delicious? Well worth the drive. I’d burn them.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

Everyone saying this offers ZERO workable solutions that were actually feasible, Ive noticed.
Say it. Say what you wanted politicians to do. Exactly what you wanted them to do. I bet they couldn’t. Well past time to get over it because it was yesterday. What do you want them to do now?

So this will probably get taken down because it is impossible not to "be political" when answering a question like "say exactly what you wanted the politicians to do".

1: Wear a mask. Don't decide you are not going to wear one because you don't want the media to see you in it (I.E. don't be a child). Encourage everyone to wear a mask at all times, not when they feel like it. Support states issuing mask mandates. Wear your mask properly (I'm looking at you DeSantis).
2: Call the virus by the correct scientific name. Not the "China Virus", not ""Just a flu".
3: Listen to health experts. Don't shut them down and send them away when they say things are going poorly. Ask them how to make things better and listen.
4: Come together to form regional groups to combat the virus and prevent spread across state lines, like the NorthEast states did.
5: Appeal to all Americans to come together to stop the virus. Saying that each state can do what it wants, that each person can do what they want, and trusting that everyone will "do the right thing" is pretty foolhardy considering the amount of "America is a Free Country, you can't tell me what to do" types.

Just to name a few.

 

[EdFred]

I suppose your friend's mother was one of the weak ones?

Well we just celebrated her daughter's 65th birthday yesterday (without masks) so you sort of expect somebody who is 90 to die of natural causes/old age, which she did. But according to you her daughter didn't actually turn 65 it's just something I believe.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

That’s in the past. I said a workable solution now. Bitching about yesterday is useless. Won’t change how people behave next time at our scale, either. Because next time it won’t be the same problems.

So again I say... so what? We made mistakes. They weren’t unpredictable ones either. You do what you wanted, half the country (rightly) screeches it’s completely inappropriate for their area.

Most of it still is for a couple hundred million where nothing is really going on. It’ll be appropriate when the thing gets there. If time of exposure is even high enough.

Triple digit deaths are fifty miles from here. Two deaths here. The city kids over there to the west have some problems. Not huge ones. Busiest hospital topped out at 350 going on three months ago.

Some other places? Yeah they’ve got a fire to put out. Thousands of miles from here to one of those. They’ll head for the city too, so I’ll wave as they fly or drive by. City can do as it pleases with them.

I stuck my nose in the suburban edge that had six new cases last month to eat dinner out last night. Truly terrifying. LOL. Probably dead by Friday.

The household nurse saw a couple hundred people last week, so we know where our real risk vector is. The city kids would lose their minds if she decided not to show up. She’s gonna show up anyway, so no worries there.

Have I mentioned that fire roasted Brussel sprouts are delicious? Well worth the drive. I’d burn them.

That is a workable solution now. As for inappropriate lock-downs, we have people driving around here from Texas; I hope they didn't come from the hot spots. I've never notices so many Texas plates here before the past 2 weeks.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Well we just celebrated her daughter's 65th birthday yesterday (without masks) so you sort of expect somebody who is 90 to die of natural causes/old age, which she did. But according to you her daughter didn't actually turn 65 it's just something I believe.

Whatever.

 

[EdFred]

So this will probably get taken down because it is impossible not to "be political" when answering a question like "say exactly what you wanted the politicians to do".

1: Wear a mask. Don't decide you are not going to wear one because you don't want the media to see you in it (I.E. don't be a child). Encourage everyone to wear a mask at all times, not when they feel like it. Support states issuing mask mandates. Wear your mask properly (I'm looking at you DeSantis).
2: Call the virus by the correct scientific name. Not the "China Virus", not ""Just a flu".
3: Listen to health experts. Don't shut them down and send them away when they say things are going poorly. Ask them how to make things better and listen.
4: Come together to form regional groups to combat the virus and prevent spread across state lines, like the NorthEast states did.
5: Appeal to all Americans to come together to stop the virus. Saying that each state can do what it wants, that each person can do what they want, and trusting that everyone will "do the right thing" is pretty foolhardy considering the amount of "America is a Free Country, you can't tell me what to do" types.

Just to name a few.

View attachment 88270

How about this? Those of us that aren't afraid are allowed to live like we want. And those who are scared of their own shadow can stay at home. You don't want to go out that's fine but don't force me to stay at home. We might as well make this super political close the thread down and I'll get it started with liking it to owning guns. You don't want one fine don't get one. But those lost that want to live our life and have them let us be.

As I previously stated I passed my age cut-off where I am not going to seek out any treatment so if I get it you can also celebrate when I die if I'm one of the weak ones. And if I get it and survive well I guess you'll have to suspend your parties.

 

[MuseChaser]

Can you please tell me which part of it is fictional? There are absolutely mass graves in New York from Covid. Other countries absolutely handled it better than us. Vietnam has 0 deaths, so they also beat us at coronavirus just like they did at *ahem* that other thing.

...

Sure, happy to oblige. The most fictitious part of your original statement that I quoted was the part about "most countries squashing the disease," or something like that, which magically morphed into "other countries" without the "most" descriptor in your next post, tacitly acknowledging that your first post was untrue, i.e., fiction. You then listed Viet Nam as the only example of 0 deaths, along with a depiction of this whole mess as a competition (which it is not) and a nonsensical snide comment about us "losing" to Viet Nam in that "other thing." North Viet Nam? South Viet Nam? What are you talking about? You're not helping your case.

 

[EdFred]

Whatever.

Oh you mean you don't like it when the argument that you throw out is turned right back at you? Maybe you should think about what you're saying before actually saying it. I didn't bring my cell phone to the party so I wasn't actually able to get a picture of her 65th decorations. But that probably wouldn't be good enough for you I'd probably need to ask her for a birth certificate as well, or a video of her birth with documentation of the current day.

You can't have it both ways. Either everything you spout off is just what you believe and not factual or some things are actual fact even if you don't agree with them. Which is it?

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Oh you mean you don't like it when the argument that you throw out is turned right back at you? Maybe you should think about what you're saying before actually saying it. I didn't bring my cell phone to the party so I wasn't actually able to get a picture of her 65th decorations. But that probably wouldn't be good enough for you I'd probably need to ask her for a birth certificate as well, or a video of her birth with documentation of the current day.

You can't have it both ways. Either everything you spout off is just what you believe and not factual or some things are actual fact even if you don't agree with them. Which is it?

Ed, I'm generally just treating you as noise. You repeat debunked conspiracy theories, and people don't take you seriously. Go share it with Q Anon.

 

[EdFred]

Ed, I'm generally just treating you as noise. You repeat debunked conspiracy theories, and people don't take you seriously. Go share it with Q Anon.

I didn't repeat anything. These are people I actually know. I wasn't even aware of it happening elsewhere. You're just plugging ears and going lalalalalalala because you don't like what you heard.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I didn't repeat anything. These are people I actually know. You're just plugging ears and going lalalalalalala because you don't like what you heard.

Like I said, whatever. Go share it with your Q Anon friends.

 

[EdFred]

Like I said, whatever. Go share it with your Q Anon friends.

I don't even know what Q Anon (seen it mentioned but I have no idea what they are about or anything). I seriously have not watchedthe news in 8 years or more maybe 15 . You don't like it because you got caught with a ridiculous argument and don't like it when it's spun around on you.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

How about this? Those of us that aren't afraid are allowed to live like we want. And those who are scared of their own shadow can stay at home. You don't want to go out that's fine but don't force me to stay at home. We might as well make this super political close the thread down and I'll get it started with liking it to owning guns. You don't want one fine don't get one. But those lost that want to live our life and have them let us be.

As I previously stated I passed my age cut-off where I am not going to seek out any treatment so if I get it you can also celebrate when I die if I'm one of the weak ones. And if I get it and survive well I guess you'll have to suspend your parties.

So wait, I answer a question about specific policies and get a response of “Let me do whatever the hell I want to do and everyone else can suck it”? How mature and how caring of others.
It is hard to deny that a person deciding not to follow a global guideline to wear a mask in a public place is not infringing on the rights of an at-risk person who also wants to go to that same public space. Or do we all live in our own bubbles and nothing we do affects others?

Is wearing a mask that difficult for you? If so, then tell me how it is more difficult than experiences of the WW2 generation thrown around here. If not, tell me why you can’t just suck it up and wear one for 6 months.

Perhaps you should also listen to the pandemic experts. Perhaps you should think about how your decisions reflect on young children who are watching how adults respond to each other. Last I checked, teaching compassion, understanding others needs, caring for others above oneself, and community hygiene are all important for kids to learn.

 

[EdFred]

So wait, I answer a question about specific policies and get a response of “Let me do whatever the hell I want to do and everyone else can suck it”? How mature and how caring of others.
It is hard to deny that a person deciding not to follow a global guideline to wear a mask in a public place is not infringing on the rights of an at-risk person who also wants to go to that same public space. Or do we all live in our own bubbles and nothing we do affects others?

Is wearing a mask that difficult for you? If so, then tell me how it is more difficult than experiences of the WW2 generation thrown around here. If not, tell me why you can’t just suck it up and wear one for 6 months.

Perhaps you should also listen to the pandemic experts. Perhaps you should think about how your decisions reflect on young children who are watching how adults respond to each other. Last I checked, teaching compassion, understanding others needs, caring for others above oneself, and community hygiene are all important for kids to learn.

An at-risk person shouldn't be putting themselves at risk. Why does everyone else have to change for them? Spin it around basically they're saying "too bad you have to suck it, because my choices as an at risk person are more important." I already said I'm willing to accept the consequences of my action, or inaction, for me. I have no wife I have no kids I have nobody I'm leaving behind. If everybody who doesn't want to contract it is wearing their masks then they don't have to worry about me giving it to them if I even have it or get it. And if I get it and die, feel free to celebrate.

 

[Palmpilot]

...New Zealand's population is closer to 5 million.
Why not compare the two? Take a large country like the USA, and have the states use their local authority, with guidance from the federal government.
Australia, 25 million people, also has it under control.
Vietnam, 96 million, has it under control

Face it- the USA fouled up the response.

Also, the European Union has about 100 million more people than we do, but their seven-day moving average of new cases per day has been doing MUCH better than ours.

https://www.statista.com/chart/22102/daily-covid-19-cases-in-the-us-and-the-eu/

 

[EdFred]

Also, the European Union has about 100 million more people than we do, but their seven-day moving average of new cases per day has been doing MUCH better than ours.

https://www.statista.com/chart/22102/daily-covid-19-cases-in-the-us-and-the-eu/

Excellent. If the number of people expected to have it is 10-15 times the confirmed cases that means everybody should get it by the end of the year and we can be done with this.

 

[35 AoA]

I know a few people now. Mild to non-existent symptoms with all. That isn't to make light of the situation, just that those I know haven't had a bad case. I don't think people should be blasé about the prospect of catching this disease. But I think a lot of people are assuming it is a death sentence when for many, it is not. That doesn't mean I don't think that masks, personal space, or staying home are bad ideas. Some people, especially your average obese American suffering from multiple chronic and already life ending diseases, will very much end up in the hospital, if not worse. We can help them out by being considerate.

 

[denverpilot]

That is a workable solution now. As for inappropriate lock-downs, we have people driving around here from Texas; I hope they didn't come from the hot spots. I've never notices so many Texas plates here before the past 2 weeks.

No it’s not. You didn’t do anything to help the folks forced into bankruptcy by it. Didn’t even say to stop the goods and services people don’t actually need, like the kitchen remodelers... oh wait, the people doing the remodeling go bankrupt.

Try again. Lame first effort. Going to have to cover the equally or more dangerous side-effects if you want anybody to take the statement seriously.

But at least you’re discussing now.

Airplane engine is on fire. Where you gonna land? Work the entire problem not just one.

I can make my company’s IT systems perfectly secure. Throw all the computers away. Kinda puts us out of business though.

Point being — you’re going to have to accept an imperfect solution at some point. Whining that it was wrong accomplished nothing. And many things being done are to avoid considerable different harm happening to your neighbors.

Their 99.7% chance of death IF they even contract the thing... may not outweigh their 100% chance of not ... fill in the blank.

I’d take those odds for quite a few things really. Got worse odds on lots of other things in life that can cause my death or suffering.

If you hit dealt better cards, great. Hide from it. I’m sure it looks scarier to you. See ya in two years... or not. But your solution isn’t workable for me. Doesn’t help my wife either. You didn’t even mention all those folks.

Don’t care about their risks you want them taking for you? Well... welcome to the club if you think I’m bad. Order a pizza. Click on that something you don’t need to survive on Amazon. Just send the servants out.

But liquor and pot. Both stores are “essential” here. LOL. Right.

 

[denverpilot]

1: Wear a mask. Don't decide you are not going to wear one because you don't want the media to see you in it (I.E. don't be a child). Encourage everyone to wear a mask at all times, not when they feel like it. Support states issuing mask mandates. Wear your mask properly (I'm looking at you DeSantis).
2: Call the virus by the correct scientific name. Not the "China Virus", not ""Just a flu".
3: Listen to health experts. Don't shut them down and send them away when they say things are going poorly. Ask them how to make things better and listen.
4: Come together to form regional groups to combat the virus and prevent spread across state lines, like the NorthEast states did.
5: Appeal to all Americans to come together to stop the virus. Saying that each state can do what it wants, that each person can do what they want, and trusting that everyone will "do the right thing" is pretty foolhardy considering the amount of "America is a Free Country, you can't tell me what to do" types.

Just to name a few.

View attachment 88270

Yawn. None of that works to stop linear progression mathematically. Only one even attempts it and it’s not working even now.

I appeal to all Americans to stop nature! Wheeeee. That worked. Hey I did it for you. Felt spiffy.

Chuckling because Aus and NZ were touted as great here, and now seeing social media posts even tonight, that the dismayed there are wondering why their numbers keep going up...

They’re in for repeating that emotion quite a lot until they figure out the math. They didn’t stop it.

Got math? LOL.

It’ll be fun to rib them asking why they can’t just behave, in about another month when they’re severely ticked off at each other. Should go over well. Wouldn’t want to start too soon.

 

[Morgan3820]

Members of my family are old and weak. If you would gotten your wish and they had been infected back in March, there is a good chance some of them would now be dead. So I say again, my apologies that the fact that myself and all members of my family are still alive displeases you.

Holy crap. You sure are milking this.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

Yawn. None of that works to stop linear progression mathematically. Only one even attempts it and it’s not working even now.

I appeal to all Americans to stop nature! Wheeeee. That worked. Hey I did it for you. Felt spiffy.

Chuckling because Aus and NZ were touted as great here, and now seeing social media posts even tonight, that the dismayed there are wondering why their numbers keep going up...

They’re in for repeating that emotion quite a lot until they figure out the math. They didn’t stop it.

Got math? LOL.

It’ll be fun to rib them asking why they can’t just behave, in about another month when they’re severely ticked off at each other. Should go over well. Wouldn’t want to start too soon.

So denverpilot, you are saying that the politicians that made a mess of this situation should not have done these things? Poor compliance with mask wearing and movement restrictions during the first shutdown and even now is a direct result of a certain individual downplaying the need for masks and the potential for a large pandemic.

How about you tell me what specific things the politicians should have done to make things better.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

An at-risk person shouldn't be putting themselves at risk. Why does everyone else have to change for them? Spin it around basically they're saying "too bad you have to suck it, because my choices as an at risk person are more important." I already said I'm willing to accept the consequences of my action, or inaction, for me. I have no wife I have no kids I have nobody I'm leaving behind. If everybody who doesn't want to contract it is wearing their masks then they don't have to worry about me giving it to them if I even have it or get it. And if I get it and die, feel free to celebrate.

That is not how the virus works. Masks mostly prevent an infected person from spreading their virus around the community. So you deciding not to wear a mask (and potentially being an infectious but non-symptomatic spreader) are the problem. That is unless you want to source and pay for real N95 masks and fit testing for everyone around you.

You do realize that your only argument so far is “I don’t want to wear one” and that is what a 4 year old says.

Think about it another way - image you have a virus spread by contact with urine. You decide that you can go around ****ing on every seat in the town and telling others that if they don’t want to catch your virus then they can just keep standing and never sit down. OR you could just be a decent human being that thinks about caring for others and use the toilet like a reasonable person.

 

[Salty]

That is not how the virus works. Masks mostly prevent an infected person from spreading their virus around the community. So you deciding not to wear a mask (and potentially being an infectious but non-symptomatic spreader) are the problem. That is unless you want to source and pay for real N95 masks and fit testing for everyone around you.

You do realize that your only argument so far is “I don’t want to wear one” and that is what a 4 year old says.

Think about it another way - image you have a virus spread by contact with urine. You decide that you can go around ****ing on every seat in the town and telling others that if they don’t want to catch your virus then they can just keep standing and never sit down. OR you could just be a decent human being that thinks about caring for others and use the toilet like a reasonable person.

Why limit it to wearing a mask, oh wait, they haven’t, they’ve also said you can’t go out except for “required services”, but why allow that, how selfish are you to go out and maybe infect someone just because you want food. That’s what a four year old says.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

Why limit it to wearing a mask, oh wait, they haven’t, they’ve also said you can’t go out except for “required services”, but why allow that, how selfish are you to go out and maybe infect someone just because you want food. That’s what a four year old says.

Because you can EASILY wear a mask, but can not go without eating food. Or at least everyone else including young children can wear masks, but you are somehow special and can’t handle it.

 

[Salty]

Because you can EASILY wear a mask, but can not go without eating food. Or at least everyone else including young children can wear masks, but you are somehow special and can’t handle it.

So, you are the one that gets to decide where the line is drawn for everyone. Gotcha.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

So, you are the one that gets to decide where the line is drawn for everyone. Gotcha.

Nope, medical experts did that. Wear a mask. Even Trump finally gave up his resistance to masks.

 

[Palmpilot]

...Think about it another way - image you have a virus spread by contact with urine. You decide that you can go around ****ing on every seat in the town and telling others that if they don’t want to catch your virus then they can just keep standing and never sit down. OR you could just be a decent human being that thinks about caring for others and use the toilet like a reasonable person.

An ironic analogy, given the ****ing matches we've had on this subject.

 

[Bob Noel]

That is not how the virus works. Masks mostly prevent an infected person from spreading their virus around the community. ...

interesting claim... and counter to what this study shows:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2440799/

part of the principal finding: "Outward protection (mask wearing by a mechanical head) was less effective than inward protection (mask wearing by healthy volunteers)."

and another thing: why do healthcare workers wear masks?

 

[Matthew Rogers]

interesting claim... and counter to what this study shows:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2440799/

part of the principal finding: "Outward protection (mask wearing by a mechanical head) was less effective than inward protection (mask wearing by healthy volunteers)."

and another thing: why do healthcare workers wear masks?

That article was from 2008 and based around airborne influenza, not COVID. So it is not current guidance.

Health care workers wear fit tested approved N95 masks that work to prevent both catching and spreading virus. N95 masks are currently limited in sale to medical professionals only in most cases, so the general public can’t utilize them.

 

[weilke]

If anyone asks you 'why is this virus spreading in the US', just point them to this thread.

 

[Palmpilot]

Excellent. If the number of people expected to have it is 10-15 times the confirmed cases that means everybody should get it by the end of the year and we can be done with this.

Is that still true? The article I saw with estimates in that ballpark is three months old. I suspect that testing has increased since then.

Also, how certain is it that we will be "done with this"? I recently read that there is doubt about how long immunity will last. The reason given was that immunity to previous coronaviruses has been temporary.

 

[MuseChaser]

One of our local radio personalities was a guest on another radio show last week to discuss masks, the virus, and the recent loss of his elderly mother to the virus. He was obviously and understandably extremely upset about her passing, and I truly felt awful for him and the rest of his family, despite the fact that I disagree with him on just about everything politically.
His main point during the interview was that everyone should wear a mask, and that he was extremely angry with the person who killed his mother by not wearing one. His words, not mine. He went as far as saying that not wearing a mask was the same as having a license to kill anyone you wished. He then went on to state that he could not identify who was responsible for his mother's death because everyone was always welcome in her home and she had an open door policy.
I'll stop there out of respect for his mother and for his loss. Hopefully, my point is obvious.

 

[Bob Noel]

That article was from 2008 and based around airborne influenza, not COVID. So it is not current guidance.

I don't believe that your statement is correct. Of course a study in 2008 wouldn't have a covid-19 bias. It was apparently in response to SARS (also a coronavirus).

Health care workers wear fit tested approved N95 masks that work to prevent both catching and spreading virus. N95 masks are currently limited in sale to medical professionals only in most cases, so the general public can’t utilize them.

You said: "Masks mostly prevent an infected person from spreading their virus around the community"

 

[Palmpilot]

interesting claim... and counter to what this study shows:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2440799/

part of the principal finding: "Outward protection (mask wearing by a mechanical head) was less effective than inward protection (mask wearing by healthy volunteers)."

and another thing: why do healthcare workers wear masks?

Thanks for that link!

 

[Palmpilot]

A physician's summary of the case for masks, with links to the evidence:

https://larsonsportsortho.com/are-masks-effective-against-the-coronavirus-disease/

 

[Morgan3820]

That is not how the virus works. Masks mostly prevent an infected person from spreading their virus around the community. So you deciding not to wear a mask (and potentially being an infectious but non-symptomatic spreader) are the problem. That is unless you want to source and pay for real N95 masks and fit testing for everyone around you.

You do realize that your only argument so far is “I don’t want to wear one” and that is what a 4 year old says.

Think about it another way - image you have a virus spread by contact with urine. You decide that you can go around ****ing on every seat in the town and telling others that if they don’t want to catch your virus then they can just keep standing and never sit down. OR you could just be a decent human being that thinks about caring for others and use the toilet like a reasonable person.

Masks or no masks. We (the World) are all going to get this. One way or another. NZ, the European countries. It is not going away. Masks just delay the inevitable. I am not up for wearing a mask for the rest of my life.
There are bigger concerns than this little bug.

 

[weilke]

Is that still true? The article I saw with estimates in that ballpark is three months old. I suspect that testing has increased since then.

Those estimates are indeed from earlier in the epidemic when hospitals couldn't even get admitted patients tested. Antibody studies done in places affected by the epidemic at the time suggested those higher ratios.
While testing isn't anywhere close to where it has to be, with many more community cases now being reported from testing of individuals who didn't get their test because they were sick, that ratio is probably lower. How much lower, I dont know, a number I have seen recently is 5.

Also, how sure are we that we will be "done with this" by the end of the year? I recently read that there is doubt about how long immunity will last. The reason given was that immunity to previous coronaviruses has been temporary.

I thought it goes away in April, you know for easter in packed churches. Well, if not april, then it goes away in the summer, like magic. And if not in the summer, it surely is going to disappear right before school start.

 

[EdFred]

Because you can EASILY wear a mask, but can not go without eating food. Or at least everyone else including young children can wear masks, but you are somehow special and can’t handle it.

So because 16 out of 10000 people where I am located might die from this the other 99984 people have to change? Who's the entitled 4 year old in this scenario? I'd say the 16 people. YOU be responsible for YOUR health, and I will be responsible for MY health. If YOU or someone in your house is at risk, and you aren't ready to cash in your chips, then YOU protect you and yours, don't push it off on everyone else to be responsible for you. Accept responsibility for yourself. I have no one else at my house and I don't care if I get it or not. And the ****ing all over analogy is so ridiculous it's a non-starter.

 

[Palmpilot]

So because 16 out of 10000 people where I am located might die from this the other 99984 people have to change? Who's the entitled 4 year old in this scenario? I'd say the 16 people. YOU be responsible for YOUR health, and I will be responsible for MY health. If YOU or someone in your house is at risk, and you aren't ready to cash in your chips, then YOU protect you and yours, don't push it off on everyone else to be responsible for you. Accept responsibility for yourself. I have no one else at my house and I don't care if I get it or not. And the ****ing all over analogy is so ridiculous it's a non-starter.

People talk about deaths as though they were the only serious health consequence of this virus. The number of people who end up with long term health consequences is reportedly significantly larger than the number of deaths.

One important point that I think people overlook is that, unlike shutdowns, masks don't harm the economy.

Personally, because I care about other people, and because there is no way to know whether I am one of the unsymptomatic carriers or not, I would hate to think that I might unknowingly cause someone else to suffer serious health consequences because of failing to adopt a mitigation measure as harmless and inexpensive as wearing a mask over my mouth and nose when I'm in the proximity of others. YMMV.

 

[MuseChaser]

...
Personally, because I care about other people, and because there is no way to know whether I am one of the unsymptomatic carriers or not, I would hate to think that I might unknowingly cause someone else to suffer serious health consequences because of failing to adopt a mitigation measure as harmless and inexpensive as wearing a mask over my mouth and nose when I'm in the proximity of others. YMMV.

Personally, I feel and act exactly the same way. When the people around me wish that I wear a mask, or if I am unsure whether or not they wish me to do so, I wear a mask. On that, I agree with you.

Where I differ is the governmental REQUIREMENT to wear a mask, rather than allowing it to remain a "personal" choice. "Unknowingly caus(ing) somone else to suffer serious health consequences because of failing to adopt a mitigating measure as harmless..."..... as not eating peanut butter outside your own home because someone with a severe peanut allergy may be in your vicinity unbeknownst to you? As serving bread containing gluten to someone who doesn't tolerate it, but didn't tell you? The onus for one's health risks, in a free society, should rest on the individual much more than on governmental dictates. Intentionally harming someone else is, of course, wrong and SHOULD be (and is) against the law. If someone wishes to remain unexposed, or to limit their exposure, to COVID-19, there are plenty of ways to do that other than requiring the entire population to bend to that individual's will.