Equipment List

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Dave Taylor
Is there a requirement for this to be in the aircraft (pt91)?
Is there an FAR or even SB/AIM entry suggesting this?
I am being told elsewhere that I imagined the requirement for an Equipment List. Maybe I did imagine it.

All I can find is reference in an FAA guide for ramp inspectors "Weight and Balance and Equipment List".
All my previous a/c had them and I always carried them as part of AROW.
(I was shown in the past, that is it better referred to as AROWE in fact)
[ARROW to the ahem, older pilots].

(This is NOT about Required Equipment nor MEL/MMELs.)
 
There was an excellent Advisory Circular that covered Part 91 minimum equipment with all of the appropriate legal stuff referenced, and I both can’t think of the number right now, and also noted it was marked deprecated months ago... without the replacement released yet.

Someone said it was because it used wording incompatible with freaking ICAO, or maybe the FAA site said that as to reason for deprecating it... which would mean the info contained therein is still accurate but makes the bureaucracy unhappy. LOL

If I can find the number in my notes I’ll post it. Have mentioned it here before. Really old AC but it was still right. Had flowcharts even.

One of those “Hey this is useful and well-written Docs... annnnnnd it’s gone...” South Park style! :)
 
Nate this question is not about the equipment that is required for a pt 91 flight.

This might be more understandable if I post an example that I have, I will have to find it.

It is something like this:

Radio 1 description, identification
Radio 2 description, ID
Air Conditioner
Standby alternator
Additional seats

It included all the stuff that it came from the factory with, and then I think A&Ps were to update it as things were added and removed.
(I think there was a weight/arm/moment for each, as this was closely associated with the W&B document but apart from the W&B)
 
I have a list like this for the Aztec. It's part of the W&B section, along with 40 years of documented equipment changes and the last reweigh, in the rather voluminous and hefty POH, so it's in the airplane.
 
Is this what you are asking about?

KINDS OF OPERATION LIMITS 1. VFR day and night 2. IFR day and night REQUIRED EQUIPMENT FOR VARIOUS CONDITIONS OF FLIGHT Federal Aviation Regulations (91.3(a), 91.24,91.25,91.32, 91.33, 91.52, 91.90, 91.97, 91 .I 70) specify the minimum numbers and types of airplane instruments and equipment which must be installed and operable for various kinds of flight conditions. This includes VFR day, VFR night, IFR day, and IFR night. Regulations also require that all airplanes be certificated by the manufacturer for operations under various flight conditions. At certification, all required equipment must be in operating condition and should be maintained to assure continued airworthiness. If deviations from the installed equipment were not permitted, or if the operating rules did not provide for various flight conditions, the airplane could not be flown unless all equipment was operable. With appropriate limitations, the operation of every system
 
I have seen examples of what you speak of. And seen it used for updating W&B when changing equipment.

But no idea about a FAR requirement
 
Is there a requirement for this to be in the aircraft
It's a condition of aircraft certification (23, 25, 27, 29) and is tied to the certified empty wt & b requirement. Technically the list is part of the aircraft, so yes it needs to be with the aircraft. See Note 1 in most TCDS. Doesn't matter what FAR the aircraft is operated (91, 121, 125, 135). It's also a requirement for issuance of an AWC (21), plus, as you noted, it's in the top 5 ramp check items.
 
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An equipment list and the limitations booklet are specifically called out on the type certificate for my plane. This is as close as you get for the so-called W in ARROW.
 
Interesting question and funny. It's kind of a derivation of a question which used to be discussed a lot online - what requires you to carry the weight and balance in the airplane to begin with? Obviously the weight and balance and equipment list are part of the aircraft certification but that alone doesn't mean you have to carry it around with you any more than carrying around any other maintenance records. (That one was discussed here on POA more than 10 years ago)

I think the answer is, it's derived from other requirements:

TCDS: There are some which specifically say, "Current weight and balance report including list of equipment included in certificated weight empty, and loading instructions when necessary, must be in each aircraft at the time of original certification and at all time thereafter..." (my emphasis). I've also seen it tied to the AFM in TCDS, "Airplane Flight Manual (including Equipment list and applicable supplements)"

Part 43 maintenance regs require the equipment list be updated as part of the weight and balance update. Again that ties it to the weight and balance report; If you need to carry the weight and balance report, you need to carry all parts of it.
 
We actually had the type club go through this on the Navions. The type certificate calls out the limitations book (this is a handy reference with the W&B envelope and other stuff like minimum fuel grades, capacities, and airspeeds). It does not have the empty weight/arm. The TC also calls out an equipment list and certain placards. That's and your airworthiness certificate and registration are the base required documents. There is a Navion Owner's Manual, but it is not a required document.

Various STCs (angle of incidence change on the tail, tip tanks, various avioncs, but oddly enough not the big engine) have "flight manual supplements" that are required to supplement the non-existent flight manual.

I carry the little worksheet that I computed the empty weight/arm on the last time the plane was weighed (signed by the IA working with me) for practical matters, but I'm not seeing any reason why it is required.
 
I remember my first CFI reviewing this with me on one of my first flights or first ground sessions. It was a list that was part of the W&B with a table that had markings for required, not required, (I think INOP?)... Forget if this was informational or if she said it was required to be carried in the aircraft. WB is required, so maybe this was required since it was part of the WB list??
 
There are some which specifically say, "Current weight and balance report including list of equipment included in certificated weight empty

Emphasis added. That's it. Nothing on the list need be required for flight, only that it be listed in empty. Sorta like undrainable oil and unusable fuel.
 
but that alone doesn't mean you have to carry it around with you any more than carrying around any other maintenance records.
FYI: The empty wt & bal record and equipment list is not considered a maintenance record per FAA guidance. But as your TCDS Note 1 example states, "...must be in each aircraft at the time of original certification and at all time thereafter," makes the inclusion of these two items a condition of certification and by extension, a condition of airworthiness. While every TCDS/Aircraft Specification is not the same, in my experience, you'll be hard pressed to convince any ASI or DAR that an empty weight equipment list is not required to be onboard the aircraft especially since it's a ramp check item. And just to add, it is also technically considered a minor alteration to make changes to the certified empty wt & bal record and its associated equipment list as it is considered part of the aircraft.
 
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Ok that is all awesome info but now I am going to drop the stinkbomb in the party;
Now look at the requirement of the Equipment List (EL) from the standpoint of an EAB (exp) aircraft (as mine is) and which is the original reason for my question (mine has no EL and I was wondering why).
As others have noted, FAA reference to the EL includes the words ‘certificated’ or ‘Type Certificate’.
I don’t believe these terms apply to mine (?) so am I wrong to think I can skate on the requirement for an EL in my A/C?

(honestly, to reduce chances of ramp check problems I am probably going to develop one..... even if it’s to placate am over zealous ramp checker)

thanks for the education.
 
I don’t believe these terms apply to mine (?) so am I wrong to think I can skate on the requirement for an EL in my A/C?
The equip list requirement is only applicable to TC aircraft. The only requirement for your E/AB is an empty weight and EWCG at the time of your AWC issuance and any operating limitation requirement thereafter.
 
(honestly, to reduce chances of ramp check problems I am probably going to develop one..... even if it’s to placate am over zealous ramp checker)
SYSTEM and/or COMPONENT GENERAL Overwater flight COMMUNICATIONS VHF communications system 1 ELECTRICAL POWER Battery DC alternator VFR Dav I VFR Niaht -*Per FAR 91.33 IFR Night Remarks and/ or Exceptions EQUIPMENT AND FURNISHING Seat belts and Shoulder harness Emergency locator transmitter FIRE PROTECTION Portable fire extinguisher - Per Person or Per FAR 91.33 - Per FAR 91.52 SYSTEM and/or COMPONENT FLIGHT CONTROLS Stabilator trim tab indicator Flap position indicator (On electric flap system) Stall warning VFR Day VFR Nhht - May be inoperative for ferry flight provided tabs are visually checked in the neutral position prior to take-off and checked for full range of operation. - May be inoperative provided flap travel is visually inspected prior to take-off. BEECHCRAFTSport 150 B19 (MB-481 and After) Section II Limitations April 1979 2-1 5 SYSTEM and/or COMPONENT LIGHTS Cockpit and instrument lights Taxi light Landing light Rotating beacon Position light VFR Day IFR Night Remarks and/ or Exceptions VFR -*Lights must be operative. Night IFR Day -*Per FAR 91.33 -*Optional, NAVIGATION INSTRUMENTS Altimeter Airspeed indicator Vertical speed Magnetic compass Attitude indicator Turn coordinator Directional gyro Clock Transponder Navigation equipment VACUUM Vacuum system for instrument air Vacuum gage -*Per FAR 91.24, 91.90, 91.97 -*Per FAR 91.33 SYSTEM and/or COMPONENT ENGINE INDICATING INSTRUMENTS Engine tachometer indicator Exhaust gas temperature indicator ENGINE OIL INSTRUMENTS Oil pressure indicator Oil temperature indicator VFR Day VFR Night IFR Day IFR Niqht - Remarks and/ or Exceptions -*Optional
 
Nate this question is not about the equipment that is required for a pt 91 flight.

Ahh got it. Sorry been away a few days.

Yeah after reading on down I see it also got to EAB. Think you got decent answers.

Certified, ours is attached to all the W&B change paperwork over the years. Looks like it came with the aircraft when it was brandy-new from Wichita. Wasn’t part of the POH or anything.

Interesting question would be how to replace it if it became lost and the mfgr was gone. Says something for the modern “take photos of it all” solution.
 
SYSTEM and/or COMPONENT GENERAL Overwater flight COMMUNICATIONS VHF communications system 1 ELECTRICAL POWER Battery DC alternator VFR Dav I VFR Niaht -*Per FAR 91.33 IFR Night Remarks and/ or Exceptions EQUIPMENT AND FURNISHING Seat belts and Shoulder harness Emergency locator transmitter FIRE PROTECTION Portable fire extinguisher - Per Person or Per FAR 91.33 - Per FAR 91.52 SYSTEM and/or COMPONENT FLIGHT CONTROLS Stabilator trim tab indicator Flap position indicator (On electric flap system) Stall warning VFR Day VFR Nhht - May be inoperative for ferry flight provided tabs are visually checked in the neutral position prior to take-off and checked for full range of operation. - May be inoperative provided flap travel is visually inspected prior to take-off. BEECHCRAFTSport 150 B19 (MB-481 and After) Section II Limitations April 1979 2-1 5 SYSTEM and/or COMPONENT LIGHTS Cockpit and instrument lights Taxi light Landing light Rotating beacon Position light VFR Day IFR Night Remarks and/ or Exceptions VFR -*Lights must be operative. Night IFR Day -*Per FAR 91.33 -*Optional, NAVIGATION INSTRUMENTS Altimeter Airspeed indicator Vertical speed Magnetic compass Attitude indicator Turn coordinator Directional gyro Clock Transponder Navigation equipment VACUUM Vacuum system for instrument air Vacuum gage -*Per FAR 91.24, 91.90, 91.97 -*Per FAR 91.33 SYSTEM and/or COMPONENT ENGINE INDICATING INSTRUMENTS Engine tachometer indicator Exhaust gas temperature indicator ENGINE OIL INSTRUMENTS Oil pressure indicator Oil temperature indicator VFR Day VFR Night IFR Day IFR Niqht - Remarks and/ or Exceptions -*Optional

My 2020 FAR AIM Says " 91.27 - 91.99 [ Reserved ]" No 91.24 in my book ,
Is this a quiz ?
 
My 2020 FAR AIM Says " 91.27 - 91.99 [ Reserved ]" No 91.24 in my book ,
Is this a quiz ?
Actually, it looks like a copy and paste from an old document in not that great shape which was OCRd. Words like "naiht" and "nhht" for "night" give a clue.

But also, the FAR has been recompiled and renumbered at least once in the past and the copy could be from a document when 91.27-91.99 was being used. Dunno about what appear to be the 91.200 series equipment regs, but I've seen it in more than a few times in other parts of the FAR,
 
There's no official document called the "2020 FAR AIM." That's something the various aviation publishers makeup when they sell you what the government provides for free.

There are intentionally very few even number FAR sections. They leave gaps in case they need to stick a reg in there later. You are right there most of those referenced sections do not exist.

But as mentioned by others, the FARs do get rearranged from time to time.
It happened for part 91 in 1989

91.33 went to 91.205
91.52 went to 91.207
91.90 went to 91.131
91.24 went to 91.215
91.97 went to 91.135

I've attached the entire table but the PDF exceeds the forum limits.
 
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Re: E-AB, the question is interesting. My W&B was scrutinized during my airworthiness inspection and again during my repairman interview but an equipment list never came up. My plane is what it is. If I do a major change I'll amend the W&B accordingly but as it is I never typed up an equipment list and don't plan to do so.

On the other hand, about 15 years ago my mechanic wouldn't sign off the annual until my Cessna was weighed and a current equipment list was made. Cessna factory weights are a joke. My Cessna's W&B is laminated and spiral bound and includes an equipment list. It also shows the airplane configuration on big tires and skis.
 
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A couple/three years ago, I was hanging out in the office, avoiding going home and doing the lawn, and a DPE was pontificating at some second lesson student about a reg he "should know by heart", quoting him chapter and verse like a TV evangelist.
I took the time to borrow a copy of the FAR/AIM and did a quick lookup.
It wasn't there. A couple of us checked. It didn't exist in the books they were selling.
When we pointed it out to the DPE, he became agitated, and then abusive. He also refused to look at the FAR/AIM, which I thought a little childish.
Apparently, a lot of people were having problems with this DPE, like quoting regs that didn't exist, and if you didn't fly x number of hours with him you wouldn't pass your Practical.
They fired him later that year.
The old adage is as true in aviation as it is in anything: "Believe half of what you see and none of what your hear."
Check everything yourself.
The NTSB reports are full of people who heard it from the friend of a cousin who got it from their uncle's mechanic.

It's a good thing to read through the FAR/AIM, even though it is 1,000 pages too big.
Color tab the stuff that pertains to you, ignore the rest, and annually check the FAA site to see if anything has changed.
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/faa_regulations/
 
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