Hangar Winch in concrete floor

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Narwhal

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Hello,

I recently procured a hangar for a C182B. The previous owner was not using it to store an aircraft, however I am not able to push the airplane upslope into the hangar, even with only VFR reserve remaining in the tanks.

I am wondering if anyone can tell from these photos if it would be possible to install a winch in the floor - the seller of the hangar mentioned that the owner prior to him might've used one. The slit in the floor appears to be about 3 feet long by 1" wide. There is a metal rail of some kind with oval shaped holes attached to the bottom of the slit, but there is a lot of dirt under the rail. Any ideas are appreciated. Otherwise, the back wall appears to be made out of plywood and could be a better option for winch mounting?

PS: This is in a cold climate so while a tug would be nice, I'm afraid traction would be a serious issue for 4-5 months out of the year when the ramp becomes solid ice.
 

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Built a winch mount to pull the Six back. I kept it off the ground so it's pulling straight back rather than down and back. 4- 3/8" anchors. Little rope winch makes it easy to free wheel to outside the hangar. Wireless remote so you can steer while it pulls. Works great. Probably should market the thing. Haha. Also built a lift to keep the C150 above the Six before the 150 was sold. Made an extra set of pads to lift the six, just didn't fly the 150 enough to keep that down below. Sits unused now.

As far as the "slit". Looks like an expansion joint that was pulled out? The rest of the line looks like it was filled in, like the slab was 2 pours. The slab with the cracks I wouldn't put any anchors in. The concrete is already suspect, wouldn't tempt fate. I personally would keep the winch well onto the bottom slab provided the slab is decently thick. Last thing you want to do would be busting a corner of it is in fact 2 separate pours. Maybe hammer drill a hole to see how thick the slab really is.
 
I too built 3 winches, mine out of ordinary cheap 6” purlin and a bit of angle steel all bolted into the concrete floors. Harbor Freight hoists (don’t buy the smallest but they weren’t over $150)
Not sure what the slot in your floor is
 
Shepherd said:
There is a great new invention. Uses no electricity and no fossil fuel. You can pull anything with it and it is very cheap to buy and use.
Click to expand...

Very "green". But how did you connect 4 pulleys to the tail of the Cub? o_O:confused::D
 
Seems complicated with the slab joint and the cracks (there was a 7.0+ quake here 18 months ago, could be from that). Maybe I should just accept the expense of a nice tug. I would need something capable of a ~5 degree upslope with ~2100 lbs on ice though.
 
GRG55 said:
Very "green". But how did you connect 4 pulleys to the tail of the Cub? o_O:confused::D
Click to expand...
5367222_1500.jpg
 
I would mount a winch to a short (6") steel frame to get it off of the floor. Use a hammer drill to put in 4 anchors for the frame and be done with it. It's not like you're putting 3,000lbs of force on the suspect concrete. You only need enough force to overcome rolling resistance up the slope. Even a cheap harbor freight winch would last you a decade with such a light load.
 
Narwhal747 said:
Hello,

I recently procured a hangar for a C182B. The previous owner was not using it to store an aircraft, however I am not able to push the airplane upslope into the hangar, even with only VFR reserve remaining in the tanks.

I am wondering if anyone can tell from these photos if it would be possible to install a winch in the floor - the seller of the hangar mentioned that the owner prior to him might've used one. The slit in the floor appears to be about 3 feet long by 1" wide. There is a metal rail of some kind with oval shaped holes attached to the bottom of the slit, but there is a lot of dirt under the rail. Any ideas are appreciated. Otherwise, the back wall appears to be made out of plywood and could be a better option for winch mounting?

PS: This is in a cold climate so while a tug would be nice, I'm afraid traction would be a serious issue for 4-5 months out of the year when the ramp becomes solid ice.
Click to expand...

When I faced that problem I used a Harbor Freight hoist (because I had it sitting around) - and mounted it to the back wall (hangar was wood frame with exposed studs). I just attached a length of suitably-sized
water pipe across two studs, using pipe clamps and lag bolts. Then I attached the hoist to the pipe (as it was designed to do). The hoist happened to be the 100 KG rating (220 pounds) size - and it did a fine job of
pulling the plane up the sloping ramp and over the door track (hangar had sliding doors with top and bottom rollers). For attaching to the plane I used a pair of nylon lifting straps. Each was looped over one of the
landing gear legs (as close as possible to the fuselage), then the other ends of the straps were joined together with a shackle (to which the hoist hook attached). IIRC I needed another tow strap between the hoist hook
and plane harness due to the distance involved.

So I would say check out the structure of the hangar. If it looks substantial enough to bear such a load, go for it! If not, I would not hesitate to attach a winch to the floor using concrete anchors.

Dave
 
GRG55 said:
Very "green". But how did you connect 4 pulleys to the tail of the Cub? o_O:confused::D
Click to expand...

Actually, the Cub is light enough to use only 2 pulleys, a piece of 1/16th steel cable with loops on both ends slipped around the tailwheel and over a carabiner.
If you really get lazy you can spend $30.00 and buy a winch to crank in the line attached to the pulleys instead of pulling it by hand.
A buddy uses the same setup, attached to a tow bar to drag his A35, backwards into the hanger. You can steer it by putting side load on the rig in either direction.
It's slow, but you really have to try hard to ding the wing tips.
One guy runs the working lead out to the winch on his truck.
 
Narwhal747 said:
Seems complicated with the slab joint and the cracks (there was a 7.0+ quake here 18 months ago, could be from that). Maybe I should just accept the expense of a nice tug. I would need something capable of a ~5 degree upslope with ~2100 lbs on ice though.
Click to expand...
I-beam bolted to the floor to elevate the winch. You want the pulling to be more horizontal than down
 
Well think of all the favors friends would be willing to help when you have a hangar wench or did you say winch?
 
ktup-flyer said:
I-beam bolted to the floor to elevate the winch. You want the pulling to be more horizontal than down
Click to expand...

I beam would be good. Order online from mcmaster carr, for example. Aluminum or steel.

My winch, which was given to me, is on a steel frame, which I bolted to the floor. It’s not hard to bolt to the floor of a hangar.

I think I borrowed or rented a hammer-drill, used a masonry bit, drilled thru the floor to the earth. Not difficult. Installed an anchor (typical for masonry). Hex-head (3/8” diameter maybe) goes into the matching anchor. The drill bit was the size specified on the anchor package.

I requested an ok from the airport manager, before drilling, since I rent my hangar.
 
ktup-flyer said:
I-beam bolted to the floor to elevate the winch. You want the pulling to be more horizontal than down
Click to expand...

No need to elevate it unless you feel like doing more work. By the time the angle of the cable is pulling downward, your plane's wheels are already on the hangar floor and nearly to the parking spot.
 
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I use a winch to pull in my cessna. It is bolted to the concrete floor with four anchors..took about 30 minutes to drill four holes and install.
 
I make use of a wench to push the plane in. Only problem, I had to get married to get one!
 
Attach the winch to a 4-wheeler. Use it for a snowplow, too. It'll pull the plane out, too.
 
To the OP, yes, and it's easy to do. I'll post photos of my setup the next time I head out to the hangar. I'm 63 year's young... and in the winter it is the only way I can get the plane back in the hangar. I'll also be using it for the six months after my next hip replacement.
 
Apparently what I need to do is mount the winch on the back wall and use a snatch block attached to a concrete anchor on the floor (according to an engineer who helped design the hangars and uses that kind of setup for his 206). He said that the rail in the floor was for a manual-pulley-winch system that no one uses anymore.

Can anyone list the hardware I would need to attach a snatch block to a concrete anchor? I guess I'd need some kind two-hole angled bracket that goes under a washer near the head of the concrete anchor ,then a really stout caribiner or something to attach the snatch block to the bracket? I'm not an engineer or construction worker so it is getting pretty annoying trying to organize this, not going to lie.

Here is his hangar:
snatc.jpg
 
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I don't understand why the engineer thinks the pulley setup is desirable. It seems to me that it just adds more complexity.

The only thing I can think of is that the pulley is desired because it has a fixed position, so that the winch always winds up a cable coming from the desired angle.

I haven't had any problem with my winch, which is mounted on the concrete floor, at the location where he has the pulley. No pulley. It's simpler that way, and it works. I used bolts long enough to penetrate through the bottom of the concrete into the earth, since my concrete floor is a few inches thick. As somebody said, it takes about 30 minutes to do the installation.

Interesting, though, that you have a concrete wall on your hangar. Around here, airports mainly have Erect-a-Tube brand T-hangars, with walls made of corrugated steel sheet, and only the floor is concrete.
 
Narwhal747 said:
Apparently what I need to do is mount the winch on the back wall and use a snatch block attached to a concrete anchor on the floor (according to an engineer who helped design the hangars and uses that kind of setup for his 206). He said that the rail in the floor was for a manual-pulley-winch system that no one uses anymore.

Can anyone list the hardware I would need to attach a snatch block to a concrete anchor? I guess I'd need some kind two-hole angled bracket that goes under a washer near the head of the concrete anchor ,then a really stout caribiner or something to attach the snatch block to the bracket? I'm not an engineer or construction worker so it is getting pretty annoying trying to organize this, not going to lie.

Here is his hangar:
View attachment 88083
Click to expand...
Seems like it's overly complicated. Get (or build) a mounting plate like this and secure it to the concrete floor with 4 anchors. It'll work fine.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004B61AYY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_B64fFb6TYWDWY
 
NoHeat said:
I don't understand why the engineer thinks the pulley setup is desirable. It seems to me that it just adds more complexity.

The only thing I can think of is that the pulley is desired because it has a fixed position, so that the winch always winds up a cable coming from the desired angle.

I haven't had any problem with my winch, which is mounted on the concrete floor, at the location where he has the pulley. No pulley. It's simpler that way, and it works. I used bolts long enough to penetrate through the bottom of the concrete into the earth, since my concrete floor is a few inches thick. As somebody said, it takes about 30 minutes to do the installation.

Interesting, though, that you have a concrete wall on your hangar. Around here, airports mainly have Erect-a-Tube brand T-hangars, with walls made of corrugated steel sheet, and only the floor is concrete.
Click to expand...

The wall is definitely made out of wood - I think painted plywood? I didn't think to ask him why he mounted the winch on the wall rather than just straight to the floor - maybe he only wanted to make one hole in the floor, but I don't know.
 
Narwhal747 said:
-maybe he only wanted to make one hole in the floor
Click to expand...

That could be. Drill four holes into wood, and one into concrete.

To mount the winch on the floor, you'll need four holes drilled in the floor. Miserable if you have the wrong equipment, but easy if you have the correct drill and bit for masonry. You can probably rent the hammer drill if you can't borrow one.

If I have a chance, I'll take a photo of the home-made frame that my winch is mounted on, so that the winch is not directly on the floor, in case the floor gets wet. My frame is made of a few pieces of green unistrut, which is cheaper than the automotive product at Amazon that's posted above.
 
Narwhal747, attaching pics of my Wag-Aero setup. Note that they also sell an installation kit to attach the winch to a concrete floor. In total about $500. Installation was easy. You’ll need a drill and a concrete bit. 4 bolts total.
 

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Narwhal747 said:
Apparently what I need to do is mount the winch on the back wall and use a snatch block attached to a concrete anchor on the floor (according to an engineer who helped design the hangars and uses that kind of setup for his 206). He said that the rail in the floor was for a manual-pulley-winch system that no one uses anymore.

Can anyone list the hardware I would need to attach a snatch block to a concrete anchor? I guess I'd need some kind two-hole angled bracket that goes under a washer near the head of the concrete anchor ,then a really stout caribiner or something to attach the snatch block to the bracket? I'm not an engineer or construction worker so it is getting pretty annoying trying to organize this, not going to lie.

Here is his hangar:
View attachment 88083
Click to expand...
Why didn’t you ask him.
 
Before the weather gets cold, wash out that slot on the floor. Garden hose might do it, but a pressure wash would be better.

-Skip
 
Narwhal747 said:
maybe he only wanted to make one hole in the floor,
Click to expand...
It is easier to drill wood.
Structurally, it wouldn't seem to make enough of a difference to really matter given the expected loads.
Or, he mounted it to the wall and decided a "low pull" would be better.
 
I built a wooden box about 9" high and bolted it to the steel beam at the back of the hangar. The winch was mounted on the box. You could bolt the box to the floor or to the back wall, whichever is easier. You may also have to add extra length to the control box to control the winch from in front of the plane. It's an easy enough soldering job, but the wide gauge wiring can be interesting to find. Now I just use a MiniMax electric tug. Much easier.
 
No photos (sorry), but our club has a winch in each T-hangar for the planes (2 ea C-172 and 1 ea C-182). They are manually controlled with the control pendants on extended cables so you can run the winch and steer the plane at the same time. Hook the cable to the tail tiedown ring and away you go. We have wood pieces for the mains for the C-182 to ease its trip over the sliding door floor rails. Prior to adding this winch (the C-182 was the first to get one) I considered the C-182 to be a 2 person airplane as I couldn't put it away by myself. The winches make it very easy now.
 
I called the engineer and asked why he did the floor pulley, he said he was afraid of water on the floor, only 1 hole vs 2+ in the concrete, and didn't want the winch to be pulling 90 degrees its mounting bolts? I ordered a badlands winch with a wireless remote so hopefully that works. Alaska, so it'll be here in a month if I'm lucky.

In the meantime I can actually just barely push it uphill by myself with a running start using the wing strut, a bit unnerving since the door is only 40 feet wide and directional control isn't great. No way that would work in winter though.
 
David235 said:
Narwhal747, attaching pics of my Wag-Aero setup. Note that they also sell an installation kit to attach the winch to a concrete floor. In total about $500. Installation was easy. You’ll need a drill and a concrete bit. 4 bolts total.
Click to expand...
If you want to do it as cheap as possible, one of these: https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200730133_200730133 will do the job. The one I have was from Harbor Freight - but they don't sell that model
any more. I can testify that a 220 Lb capacity hoist is entirely adequate for a Cessna 182. The only downside of using a hoist vs a winch is that the hoist has no release so you can pull the cable out (you have to pull the
cable out with one hand while operating the control with the other). Small price to pay, IMHO.

Dave
 
Here are photos of my winch mount. Special trip to the airport, for Narwahl. I had forgotten exactly what it looked like.

It uses a 1/2 HP motor (plenty powerful) with belt drive and gears that reduce the speed. It’s all mounted cheaply on two-by-Fours, with only two bolts through the concrete floor. It also has a switch on a 50’ cable, so that I can control the winch while standing at the towbar.

The bolts are 1/2” diameter, which might be overkill, I show a AA battery as a size reference. Not sure, maybe I used “wedge anchor” type bolts.

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I found the drill bit that I used.

Hex-Shank Masonry Drill Bit, 1/2" Size, 3/8" Hex 1 Shank, 12" D Drill, 13-1/2" L Overall
 
Obviously from this post, winching the airplane in is a common way of doing it. But I have also known more than a couple of people that ended up with damaged aircraft from using a winch connected to the tail tiedown. The tail tiedown on most aircraft isn't designed to have that much load applied at a 90 degree angle, and can cause the structure around it to bend. Just throwing that out there.
 
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