How did you decide how much plane to afford?

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4RNB

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4RNB
Preface: I spend a lot of time on financial forums. What this means is that we are inherently cheap or prudent but have reached a nice point of comfort such that work is no longer required. Yet, I am not sure how much I'd want to spend on a plane. I renewed my medical last week, hope to get in the sky this week. Doing Sporty's ground online.

I think I get the idea of paying attention to "the mission" to determine what plane folks buy.

What I don't get, is where the individualized sweet spot is for plane price, capability, comfort. Even considering the right plane for the mission there seems to be great variability from a high total time 1960's plane to a gently used or even new model.

How did you decide for yourself?
Anyone have a spouse not comfortable flying? I expect mine would prefer smoother flight in a more modern larger flight.
A partnership seems like a good way to move up market, has this worked for you?
It looks like a lot of first planes I'd consider now, were someone else's first planes 15-30 years ago.
Is there an aviation $$$ rule of thumb compared to income or networth?
 
Speaking for only myself, flying is just a hobby. I would not borrow money to pay for a hobby. Also, I only use discretionary income that is remaining after all bills are paid, all debts are paid, retirement savings invested, and robust emergency fund in place.
 
First of all, you’ll get most of the money you spend on buying the plane back when you sell it. Assuming you are buying an older plane that’s deprecated and take care of it.
Then there is yearly expenses independent of hours flown: insurance, hangar, annual maintenance
Then there is expenses based on hours: maintenance, fuel.

You also can have high unexpected expenses: engine overhaul.

If you can afford to buy the plane with cash, and still have $10,000 in the bank for unexpected expenses during that first year. You can afford to buy the plane. But can you afford the yearly expenses?

A YouTuber just picked up a TBM out of annual, $93,000. Nothing wrong with the plane, just an annual (which apparently broke the prop governor).

Generally if you can save the money to buy a plane with cash and the extra $10,000 I mentioned, you probably can afford to maintain the plane. If you have to get a loan to buy the plane, I’d doubt you can afford it.
 
Stingray Don said:
Speaking for only myself, flying is just a hobby. I would not borrow money to pay for a hobby. Also, I only use discretionary income that is remaining after all bills are paid, all debts are paid, retirement savings invested, hookers and blow fund replenished, and robust emergency fund in place.
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FTFY
 
If it’s for fun, don’t overbuy For what you will use it for most of the time... not just purchase but operating cost... A wise airport mechanic told me to buy a plane I can afford to fly... it’s just a hobby so I bought a low n slow old Cessna 140 and am in a club w a 180hp 172... for $25k I have two planes... one that costs me $13-20 an hour in gas to chase a burger and sunsets... one thats $80 a wet tach hour if I need a couple more seats... I bought the 140 after having been in the club 10 years and I fly the wings off it... I’m doing about 100 hrs a year just fooling around..

he said too many folks buy something that fits 5% of their missions and then don’t want to spend the gas money even if they can afford it to chase a burger... and those are ones he annuals with 12 hours on the tach...

so put a heavy emphasis on operating costs :)
 
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A lot of people use a loan to buy planes, Harleys, RVs, and boats.
I used a home equity loan after I got my plane to get it squared away.
Paid it off quickly because I didn’t like the idea of my house as collateral.
I know the op is looking for a calculator like if you make this and your other expenses are x you can afford y for a car. You could always use one of the boat or RV calculators.
Just have a plan for the unexpected engine oh.
 
Hard question to answer, but one idea would be to do a reasonable analysis of the plane you want to buy to estimate your all-in monthly cost, and then set aside that amount of money for a few months to try the expense on for size. If it feels right, go for it. This is a little trick we have used because looking at a bill on paper and actually committing to it for 30 years (in the case of a house, for instance) are often very different things.

A couple points:

1) I have overshot and undershot my financial capability when buying planes. Undershooting is way better.

2) Buy a plane you can afford to fly as much as you want without much concern about the cost of fuel. That’s when it’s really fun.

3) Unless your budget is pretty substantial, I wouldn’t even consider newer planes. You can spend $80k on an older 182 and $500,000 on a newer one, and the difference in the actual plane is minor. The old one might actually appreciate in value, the new one will definitely depreciate.

Finally - my favorite saying about expenses and aviation:

Yes, I have spent and incredible amount of money on flying! The rest was just purely wasted.
 
I found a plane that I liked and told my wife that we could afford it. If she didn't flinch too badly, I bought it. It worked out fine with both the C172 and the Bonanza (V35). I'm having a little less success with the Diamond DA50.
 
When I bought my plane, I had the cash. I also had an emergency fund that would cover first year surprises but not quite an overhaul. I bought a plane with less than 50 hours since a reputable overhaul; not a guarantee but safer.

What I couldn’t and can’t afford is hangar rental ($500 a month around me). If I’m spending $850 a month on hangar, insurance and annual/emergency fund, I’d find myself going to the hangar and staring at a plane I can’t fly. I wax it at least once a year and bought a cover.

Pay attention, planes are a lot like a girl’s Barbie doll; once you buy one, you need/want a 1000 other accessories and stuff.
 
Other than buying an aircraft with discrepancies that should have been discovered, the single biggest blind spot that I have seen with new owners is the failure to understand ongoing ownership and operating costs. I budget 1 AMU per month for a fixed gear single, and that does NOT include fuel. My budget includes hangar, insurance, ongoing maintenance, electric, etc. There are far too many planes not flying because the owners can't really afford to own and operate them. The purchase price in many cases is nearly irrelevant, as the aircraft can often be sold for close to the original purchase price if the new owner got in too deep.
 
Planes are a constant drain on funds. There, I said it. But it's true. Hangar rent, annual inspections, service bulletins, maintenance, fixing things the previous owner did (or didn't) do, avionics updates (e.g. Garmin GPS subscriptions), flight planning subscriptions, plane sales tax, plane use tax, hangar property tax (in some states even if renting), insurance, fuel... I could go on.

If it's for fun, then buy what is most economical and meets your mission.

Some partnerships work, some don't. I had one and it was a miserable experience. The "promises" and paper it was written on were ignored by one of the three of us. The other partner was passive as he was trying to complete his training and didn't want to rock the boat. Plane was never available, was loaned out to all sorts of other people flying it, plane flown out of the city/state for months at a time. Confronting the partner was met with ambivalence. Damage (including a prop strike) by an unauthorized friend of the other partner. I sold out of that partnership at a 20% loss to the passive partner, took my money and ran.

My wife does not want to fly with me. She has a fear of heights and barely tolerates commercial air travel. She has vowed never to get into my plane. My son is on the fence and may fly... but is not keen. Hence I would end up flying 99% alone, and only need one other seat for a friend or my son (if he decides to fly with me.)

Given those parameters, my mission was met with a Light Sport Aircraft. Fuel efficient, reliable engine, lower cost maintenance, and there are some good deals out there with glass panel (like my plane.) I bought mine at a great price but she needed some work to get airworthy again (the previous owner let her sit on a ramp for a couple of years.) She's 12 years old and it wasn't too bad to restore and I would actually make money if I sold her now (which I won't.) I converted her to E-LSA so I can do my own maintenance and update the aircraft as I see fit (including installation of a GDL-82, GDL-39, Aera 660 for ADS-B in and out that I installed myself). Better solutions that then factory would authorize, and my own labor. Can't get much cheaper than that.

I don't know if the OP has any performance parameters he needs to meet, but for me, my Sportcruiser is plenty fast enough for most of my missions and I would not hesitate to take her cross country if needed, especially at 4.5 - 5 gph fuel burn.
 
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Here's what I did before I purchased my Lance:

- make sure to buy the plane with cash (as I didn't want to take on debt for a hobby)
- do research, talk to mechanics, other operators to figure out the fixed and operating costs. For example, I have had mine now for 18 months with about 150 hours flown, and I average $80 per hour on maintenance (not including fixed maintenance items like the annual inspection base charge). I also put away $25 per hour for engine reserve as an overhaul including labor is about $50k (Ijust did one right after I got the plane). Fuel comes down to 12-13 gph with LOP operation.
- All in, I am speding about $30k per year on the plane, including about 100 hrs of flight time.

The calculation from that perspective is quite simple:
- Is this the right airplane for my mission? what compromises would I make to get something less ideal?
- Can I afford the initial purchase and leave enough reserves for other things (plane or otherwise?)
- Can I afford to fly as much as I think I want to?

For me, these things meant waiting almost 20 years between my initial license and getting my own plane. I deliberately saved money for about 8 years (with the usual re-prioritizations for starting a family during that time). 12 years in a flying club (which came with a lot of compromises).

Hope this helps!
 
For me, here's kind of how my decision process went...
  1. I don't fly for a living. It's all for fun and convenience so that means I wanted to pay cash. Didn't make sense to take on a loan for something like this. From there, it wasn't hard to figure out the line between "wow, that's some cash" and "Holy$hit what are you thinking!?" You can probably imagine how there was some convincing my wife mixed in there too.
  2. Next item - have a good cushion for the first year of maintenance and improvements and be able to keep that cushion stuffed with the appropriate amount of cash so that you never find yourself making hard choices about delaying maintenance. In my case, I wanted at least 30% of what I bought the plane for. This is a hugely variable number. A $15K Grumman AA1 Yankee and a 2018 Cirrus SR22 will require different levels of financial reserves.
  3. Open up Excel and Calculate your "All-In" costs for 50, 75 and 100 hours of flight per year.
    • Fuel and Oil per hour
    • Engine reserve - (super variable based on what you buy and how much time is already on the engine)
    • Insurance
    • Hangar - (GET A HANGAR)
    • Annual Inspections, Oil changes every 30 hours, a reserve fund per year for surprise maintenance.
    • There are some additional things here like flight reviews, IFR inspections, mandatory stuff like ELT batteries - add a few $ per hour of flight.
  4. Consider the type of plane you buy and how that might drive your choices for upgrades. For instance, I bought a Bonanza with a solid IFR Panel, but ripe for upgrades that were easily justified for that plane. If I had bought a Cub, I never would have poured equivalent cash into the panel. The engine on my plane was at 2000 hours with a 1600 hour recommended TBO - but it was running strong. I assumed (and was right) that I'd be changing out the engine in 300 hours. That was a big cost that I was expecting at the end of year 3 of ownership, but it was planned for and fine with me.
  5. Add it all up and divide by 12 - that's your monthly number. Can you afford it? Does your net worth continue to grow every month at the rate you are happy with? If so - you can afford that much plane.
If you buy well, you can ultimately sell your plane for as much as you bought it for, or more with upgrades - but don't expect to recoup 100% of you upgrade investment. I've heard it said that you can recover the cost of hardware, but not labor. In my case, I did very well and could probably recover all of my investment, but I understand that's not something people should plan for. If you choose a plane that has depreciated down to a stable level, and if you maintain it well, you can treat this as an asset on your balance sheet that can be sold, so most of your affordability calculation is the yearly fixed and variable costs.
 
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4RNB said:
Preface: I spend a lot of time on financial forums. What this means is that we are inherently cheap or prudent but have reached a nice point of comfort such that work is no longer required. Yet, I am not sure how much I'd want to spend on a plane. I renewed my medical last week, hope to get in the sky this week. Doing Sporty's ground online.

I think I get the idea of paying attention to "the mission" to determine what plane folks buy.

What I don't get, is where the individualized sweet spot is for plane price, capability, comfort. Even considering the right plane for the mission there seems to be great variability from a high total time 1960's plane to a gently used or even new model.

How did you decide for yourself?
Anyone have a spouse not comfortable flying? I expect mine would prefer smoother flight in a more modern larger flight.
A partnership seems like a good way to move up market, has this worked for you?
It looks like a lot of first planes I'd consider now, were someone else's first planes 15-30 years ago.
Is there an aviation $$$ rule of thumb compared to income or networth?
Click to expand...

rtk11 said:
Planes are a constant drain on funds. There, I said it. But it's true. Hangar rent, annual inspections, service bulletins, maintenance, fixing things the previous owner did (or didn't) do, avionics updates (e.g. Garmin GPS subscriptions), flight planning subscriptions, plane sales tax, plane use tax, hangar property tax (in some states even if renting), insurance, fuel... I could go on...
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:yeahthat:

To the OP:

Some who have never owned an airplane before don't recognize the fixed costs of owning an airplane are significant. You pay for these even if you only fly 1 hour in a year.

When one rents, these costs are embedded in the rental rate, but as a pilot your airplane cost is 100% variable; you only pay by the hours you use the plane.

  1. Owning an airplane adds complexity to your life...more than a boat, motorcycle, RV or other types of vehicles that are much less regulated;
  2. Consider buying a plane if you intend to fly frequently, rent if you are not sure;
  3. Partnerships can be a two-sided coin - they are a great way to deal with the aforementioned fixed costs of ownership, but they all come with some amount of "baggage' and the extra effort and time required to manage the partnership successfully - I've done it both ways;
  4. Recognize if your spouse is not comfortable flying in small airplanes (mine fits that description) it will influence your ability to fly frequently and how you use your plane - mine only comes with me to visit distant family or if there's a horse to see at the other end of the journey :);
  5. Just as there is no "perfect" automobile for everyone, there is no individualized "sweet spot for plane price, capability, comfort" (but around this joint Bonanza's apparently come very close ;) );
  6. Yes, newer airplanes cost more and many older airplane types are seriously discounted compared to their more popular alternatives (check out the price difference between similar vintage Bonanzas and a Bellanca Viking, for example) - in other words there is not necessarily a direct relationship between price and performance;
  7. How you plan to use the plane (the primary "mission") is important, try to figure that out objectively before you do anything else;
  8. There is no one airplane that will do every kind of flying one might want to try, but some like the Cessna 182 can provide for a much broader range of flying experiences than the more specialized types (sort of like the difference between Dad's family sedan and your first sports car);
  9. I have always paid cash for the purchase of my airplanes, and that entry price and the opportunity cost of the capital tied up in the planes factored into my decisions;
  10. There's no set "rule" about the amount of your family net worth or income you allocate to an airplane, as that will depend on how much one allocates to everything else in one's life that you think is important - I know plane owners where that is the primary focus of their family time and money, and they really use and enjoy their planes, and I know plane owners that own 12 cars, 5 homes, 3 motorcycles, 2 golf memberships, a boat, a motorhome and gawd knows what else...and never have time to pull their planes out of the hangar - life is about making choices;
  11. Regardless of what type and vintage of used airplane you purchase, if its more than about 5 years old you will almost certainly need to budget some money bringing some things/systems on the plane up to an acceptable level - this is Newton's little known Fourth Law of motion.
Good luck with your deliberations! And when you buy that plane remember to post some pictures here. :cool:
 
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Whenever I jokingly chide my bride for any particular purchase, she comes back with a two word reply that shuts me up... "rental property".

Hangar rent.
RV spot rent.
Boat slip rent.

I am truly blessed that she really does not mind the rent bills to keep all of my toys available to me...
 
Thanks for answers gang.

Seriously though, I am really wanting to know how folks chose the specific price point they did. Is it just buy for what cash one has? Like, if you have a million in the bank, buy a new 182 versus used? What was your thought process, how and why? is the price point for folks here just because that is what one can barely afford?

Like I see prices all over the map for certain models. I know I will end up having to answer the question for myself but am curious how others answered for themselves.
 
I'm in that situation. I've owned planes in the past both outright and as part of a 5 person group. Both worked well then, but my needs and time availabilities are different now. At the airport where I fly (KBRD), the FBO has three kind of beat-up old 172's that are used almost entirely for training, and get used a lot. Renting one for more than a few hours is difficult, and renting one to go anywhere even harder. Otherwise, there's only one other club in the area, and no other rental opportunities. The cost of renting vs owning isn't my issue, it's availability of something to fly for anything other than toodling around the patch for an hour or two. I'd fly more if I had ready access to something to fly. Monthly hangar fees aren't too bad at the two or three local airports, so I'm considering buying, even though my wife isn't...enthusiastic...about small planes. Interest rates are low, insurance is fairly reasonable, and there's ready access to competent mechanics and avionics. I have no compunction about financing a nice airplane (I don't agree with the "cash-only" approach to hobbies), but I'm trying to get a handle on the fixed costs, and considering whether of not I'd put enough hours on to make it reasonable enough to own, vs the substantial restrictions and inconveniences I have relative to renting around here.
 
David235 said:
Whenever I jokingly chide my bride for any particular purchase, she comes back with a two word reply that shuts me up... "rental property".

Hangar rent.
RV spot rent.
Boat slip rent.

I am truly blessed that she really does not mind the rent bills to keep all of my toys available to me...
Click to expand...

My wife has horses and rides/competes in dressage. I get absolutely NO flak about monthly expenses for my hobbies.
 
In my case, I borrowed money to buy the airplanes. I wanted well maintained with low engine hours, and cost was about $40k for a mid 60s vintage all metal airplane. I paid the loan down faster than the airplane loses value so I got money back when I sold, or had remaining equity to pay for an overhaul of required. In both cases I had an airplane that my wife felt comfortable flying in.

Partnership? No. My wife prefers us to have complete control of maintenance and flying history. You can't do that unless you know your partner very well, not likely on an advertised partnership. Maybe if a close friend or a family member.

Sweet spot buy in? 400-800 SMOH and a real good looking and we'll maintained airplane. For VFR panel high tech not required. Put in what you need after the buy. Right now I'd discount heavily if ADS-B is not supported. Keep looking and take your time. That jewel at the right price is available. When you find it POUNCE!
 
4RNB said:
Seriously though, I am really wanting to know how folks chose the specific price point they did. Is it just buy for what cash one has? Like, if you have a million in the bank, buy a new 182 versus used? What was your thought process, how and why? is the price point for folks here just because that is what one can barely afford?

Like I see prices all over the map for certain models. I know I will end up having to answer the question for myself but am curious how others answered for themselves.
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Mission first. Be honest with yourself and define your mission, and how many people (realistically) will fly with you. Most pilots I know fly solo, and occassionally with one other.

From there, decide on how fast you want to go (fuel burn) or other capabilities of the plane (IFR capable, etc.) Start thinking if you're going to hangar outside or indoors (some composite aircraft should be hangared as opposed to tied down). Then consider where you'll maintain it and if that facility is nearby and knows the aircraft.

My Example: I knew Light Sport was going to be my path, not because of health, but because it was unlikely I'd fly with more than one other passenger, and I wanted a fuel efficient aircraft since this is hobby flying. Long cross countries were going to be seldom. I wanted a low wing aircraft, and I preferred metal vs. composite. I wanted good useful load, and while my wife preferred a BRS, it was a "nice to have" with me. That's how I ended up with my 2008 Sportcruiser (no BRS), but great useful load. And I like to update/tinker, so E-LSA was perfect so I can maintain the aircraft myself. (I also maintain my own vehicles.)
 
4RNB said:
Thanks for answers gang.

Seriously though, I am really wanting to know how folks chose the specific price point they did. Is it just buy for what cash one has? Like, if you have a million in the bank, buy a new 182 versus used? What was your thought process, how and why? is the price point for folks here just because that is what one can barely afford?

Like I see prices all over the map for certain models. I know I will end up having to answer the question for myself but am curious how others answered for themselves.
Click to expand...

The reason someone has a million$ in the bank is because they have consistently managed to resist the urge to buy ANY airplane. :p

My first purchase was predicated on how much money I had saved to buy a plane, and it went to a well worn 1961 Cherokee 160, because I wanted my own plane (after a couple decades of renting) and that was all I could afford at the time.

The current airplanes were predicated on the specific type of flying I wanted to do (there's that mission thing rearing its ugly head ;)) and involved much research in advance to identify the specific type of airplane(s) best suited for what I wanted to do (I am an engineer so elaborate spreadsheets with all sorts of comparative performance and cost data were a mandatory part of the exercise :D ), determining the ceiling price I was prepared to pay for one of those, and then shopping until the right deal came along within that criteria.
 
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A lot of really good tips have already been provided by others on this thread. I’ll add/reiterate a few points.

1- the purchase price is only buy in and often it is the cheapest part of ownership.

2- know that there will be large unexpected costs and plan accordingly. If you spend the bulk of your available cash on the initial purchase, you may be setting yourself up for a large financial problem down the road.

3- Someone else has already mentioned this but calculate the all-in 100% cost of ownership including all fixed and variable costs associated with the amount of time you want to fly per year. If you can swing it AND your net worth continues to increase, you can likely afford the plane, if not, you can’t afford it and you’ll find yourself flying less and less and likely regret the purchase.
 
Paul V said:
3- Someone else has already mentioned this but calculate the all-in 100% cost of ownership including all fixed and variable costs associated with the amount of time you want to fly per year. If you can swing it AND your net worth continues to increase, you can likely afford the plane, if not, you can’t afford it and you’ll find yourself flying less and less and likely regret the purchase.
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Yes, but what happens then? The purchase, after a couple of years, turns out to be non-feasible, for whatever reason. What are the subsequent ins-and-outs of selling out?
 
4RNB said:
Thanks for answers gang.

Seriously though, I am really wanting to know how folks chose the specific price point they did. Is it just buy for what cash one has? Like, if you have a million in the bank, buy a new 182 versus used? What was your thought process, how and why? is the price point for folks here just because that is what one can barely afford?

Like I see prices all over the map for certain models. I know I will end up having to answer the question for myself but am curious how others answered for themselves.
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I depends on what you are doing. If you want to build time solo for cheap then high time SMOH is the cheapest way in and out. Fixed prop fixed gear is cheap. Nose wheel is more forgiving, easier to handle, and better in high wind, so potentially less costly than tail draggers unless you fly really often. You should be able to get a decent high time flying airplane for $20-25k

Best value airplanes cost more to get in, require a higher level of maintenance but unexpected repairs are not as likely, so maintenance costs are about the same depending on other factors. They pay you back more at the time of sale, so overall costs after the sale are very reasonable especially if you own for more than 10 years, but you tie up a larger amount of money for that time. You should be able to get a decent high value older airplane for $40-60k.

Newer airplanes $60-150k, new airplanes $125-750k.

How much money do you want to spend? How much can you afford? What are you trying to do? Only you can answer those questions.
 
I wasn’t about to finance so I saved the money in the year I spent in Iraq. My rating was single engine (non high performance) so that kinda narrowed down my options. Bought an AA-5 for $38K outright and spent maybe $15K (mostly upgrades) the first year of ownership. Even today, about $15K is what I’m willing to spend on aviation.
 
For any vehicle, including the two planes I've owned, cash on the barrel head. Vehicles are the worst investments ever to finance. Especially recreational vehicles. I save my shekels, make a big purchase, and pay myself back. My interest rates are low.

My spouse likes flying, especially if we can cut off hours and hours of driving by flying to a destination. In fact, she is a certificated pilot. (Pinch-hitter course gone off the rails. She got bit by the bug, too. Good for her!)

The main financial consideration is that you need to be able to afford to operate and maintain a plane after acquisition. Quite frankly, the acquisition is probably the easiest financial part. You will get a large fraction of that investment back when you eventually sell. (Not that that matters that much during your ownership time.) The money down the rat hole is operation, maintenance, storage, insurance, and upgrades. A simple rule of thumb is about 4 times fuel for total operational costs, not including things like major avionics upgrades. If you do the math, it comes out close to typical rental costs. The major replacements or upgrades (IFR GPS, autopilot, glass gyros or panels, ADS-B, etc.) tend to come in close to $10K chunks, more or less. The overhaul should be covered in your operational reserve of 4 times fuel for a typical light single, but when it comes, it's gonna be around 20 AMUs or more, so more cash on hand.

There is no way to practically justify the expense, but I don't regret spending at all. Flying is such a dream, challenge and a treat that it is worth it to me. And owning your own plane means you know who flew it last and how it was treated.
 
Mission... I'm single and rarely fly with more than one other person. I take a couple of long cross-country trips a year (~1,000 - 1,500 nm), but mostly just do local flights in Northern California to destinations less than 200 - 300 nm.

Airplane... I'm 78, retired, and fly under BasicMed. I don't need to go faster than 100 - 110 knots and like to keep things simple. I own and fly an experimental LSA which I can maintain and inspect myself to keep expenses reasonable. I do spend $356/month for a hangar and have all the tools and equipment I need to keep it well maintained and to perform thorough condition inspections. The cost for the airplane was $49,950 and had less than 100 hours TTA&E. My insurance is $1,200 a year. I paid cash for the plane and my home is mortgage-free. I have zero debt.

I have owned bigger and faster airplanes, but for 95% of the flying I do now the LSA is perfect. If I need something bigger and faster I can rent from the FBO that gave me my last flight review (November 2019).
 
Stan Cooper said:
Mission... I'm single and rarely fly with more than one other person. I take a couple of long cross-country trips a year (~1,000 - 1,500 nm), but mostly just do local flights in Northern California to destinations less than 200 - 300 nm.

Airplane... I'm 78, retired, and fly under BasicMed. I don't need to go faster than 100 - 110 knots and like to keep things simple. I own and fly an experimental LSA which I can maintain and inspect myself to keep expenses reasonable. I do spend $356/month for a hangar and have all the tools and equipment I need to keep it well maintained and to perform thorough condition inspections. The cost for the airplane was $49,950 and had less than 100 hours TTA&E. My insurance is $1,200 a year. I paid cash for the plane and my home is mortgage-free. I have zero debt.

I have owned bigger and faster airplanes, but for 95% of the flying I do now the LSA is perfect. If I need something bigger and faster I can rent from the FBO that gave me my last flight review (November 2019).
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Makes a lot of sense. My wife will never get on a small plane, so it’s pretty much for me to go short distances - 100-200 miles.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
First of all, you’ll get most of the money you spend on buying the plane back when you sell it. Assuming you are buying an older plane that’s deprecated and take care of it.
Then there is yearly expenses independent of hours flown: insurance, hangar, annual maintenance
Then there is expenses based on hours: maintenance, fuel.

You also can have high unexpected expenses: engine overhaul.

If you can afford to buy the plane with cash, and still have $10,000 in the bank for unexpected expenses during that first year. You can afford to buy the plane. But can you afford the yearly expenses?

A YouTuber just picked up a TBM out of annual, $93,000. Nothing wrong with the plane, just an annual (which apparently broke the prop governor).

Generally if you can save the money to buy a plane with cash and the extra $10,000 I mentioned, you probably can afford to maintain the plane. If you have to get a loan to buy the plane, I’d doubt you can afford it.
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Getting your money back is a fallacy. Planes don’t appreciate like other items may. As a matter of fact, if you buy a plane and invest nothing Into it but standard maintenance, and You fly it for 500 hrs, you just lost $5000 due to depreciation based on the engine time. Assuming $10/hr and 2000 hr TBO. While there have been periods of time where perhaps there was appreciation, those are far and few between. However, there are fools born everyday.
 
Most won’t agree with my rule of thumb but since you asked, I use a max ceiling of 10% of net worth on toys. This is cumulative so that means the sum total value of cars, planes, boats, etc.. has to be under 10% of my net worth. It requires some discipline and can be a bit of a wet blanket for those into instant gratification but it provides plenty of headroom for unexpected MX, market impacts, other financial things in your life, etc...

It is a rule that has served me well - I have never had buyer’s regret.
 
RudyP said:
Most won’t agree with my rule of thumb but since you asked, I use a max ceiling of 10% of net worth on toys. This is cumulative so that means the sum total value of cars, planes, boats, etc.. has to be under 10% of my net worth. It requires some discipline and can be a bit of a wet blanket for those into instant gratification but it provides plenty of headroom for unexpected MX, market impacts, other financial things in your life, etc...

It is a rule that has served me well - I have never had buyer’s regret.
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I would not put cars necessarily into the toy category, unless it’s a impracticable vehicle.
 
Rcmutz said:
Getting your money back is a fallacy. Planes don’t appreciate like other items may. As a matter of fact, if you buy a plane and invest nothing Into it but standard maintenance, and You fly it for 500 hrs, you just lost $5000 due to depreciation based on the engine time. Assuming $10/hr and 2000 hr TBO. While there have been periods of time where perhaps there was appreciation, those are far and few between. However, there are fools born everyday.
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Speaking for myself, I would never look to actually make money on a hobby, or even break even...I'm perfectly willing to pay for doing the things that I enjoy. So if I lose some money on the purchase...depreciation of the plane, maintenance, or monthly hangar fees...whatever...that's absolutely expected. The question I'd have to answer is..."how much am I going to lose, and is it worth the enjoyment I got out of it during that period?" Right now, I'm not having any fun with my aviation hobby renting scruffy 172s for only a couple hours at a time at $125/hour. I'd have to decide if I can do better than that...more fun per dollar...by buying a plane. I'd be kind of surprised if I couldn't. In the meantime...like any hobby, it's completely unreasonable to expect it that it won't cost you money. Maybe a LOT of money.


MooneyDriver78 said:
I would not put cars necessarily into the toy category, unless it’s a impracticable vehicle.
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I've got a couple of cars that go in the garage under cover with the first snowflake in the fall and don't come out until the snow is completely off the roads. And this is Minnesota. The 3/4-ton GMC becomes the daily driver.

Hobbies cost money. Sometimes a LOT of money.
 
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Uhh, just like anything else in life....

I know how much money I have, what I make, what I spend, and what I owe.
I look up what I want to do is going to cost and determine if I can afford it and if it's worth it to me.

It's not that complicated- we just all have different situations, priorities, and ways of budgeting. Buying a plane isn't an investment, it's not financially wise, it's only an expense. It is a lot of fun though and that's why this has no straightforward answer. Financially it's a moronic thing to do but a life lived only doing the most financially wise thing every time seems like a pretty miserable way to live. To each his own...
 
RudyP said:
Most won’t agree with my rule of thumb but since you asked, I use a max ceiling of 10% of net worth on toys. This is cumulative so that means the sum total value of cars, planes, boats, etc.. has to be under 10% of my net worth. It requires some discipline and can be a bit of a wet blanket for those into instant gratification but it provides plenty of headroom for unexpected MX, market impacts, other financial things in your life, etc...

It is a rule that has served me well - I have never had buyer’s regret.
Click to expand...


That wouldn't work for me. I'm still working. My net worth has little to do with my disposable income, and I manage my various hobbies entirely based on disposable income with a backup cash reserve. Net worth won't be a spending factor until I retire.
 
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I do not like owning an airplane when I do not have the ability to overhaul its engine(s) using liquid cash on hand. Sadly this rule probably keeps me out of turbines forever. :D

That's been my only real guiding principle. I'm on #27 or #28 now, I forget which.
 
Stan Cooper said:
Mission... I'm single and rarely fly with more than one other person. I take a couple of long cross-country trips a year (~1,000 - 1,500 nm), but mostly just do local flights in Northern California to destinations less than 200 - 300 nm.

Airplane... I'm 78, retired, and fly under BasicMed. I don't need to go faster than 100 - 110 knots and like to keep things simple. I own and fly an experimental LSA which I can maintain and inspect myself to keep expenses reasonable. I do spend $356/month for a hangar and have all the tools and equipment I need to keep it well maintained and to perform thorough condition inspections. The cost for the airplane was $49,950 and had less than 100 hours TTA&E. My insurance is $1,200 a year. I paid cash for the plane and my home is mortgage-free. I have zero debt.

I have owned bigger and faster airplanes, but for 95% of the flying I do now the LSA is perfect. If I need something bigger and faster I can rent from the FBO that gave me my last flight review (November 2019).
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There ya go...that's the life I'm looking for. Except for the single part. E-LSA is an increasingly attractive prospect.
 
MacFly said:
There ya go...that's the life I'm looking for. Except for the single part. E-LSA is an increasingly attractive prospect.
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Well, I'm single in the sense that I'm not married. I do have a longtime S.O. who doesn't particularly like little airplanes.
 
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