What are the disadvantages of going for a Sport Certificate?

J

Juliet Foxtrot

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
18
Display Name
Display name:
WP2020
vs. a Private Pilot license?

My ultimate goal, of course, would be the PPL, but after reading here about the show-stopping medical certificate, I'd hate to find out something in that process that stopped me cold from ever even taking lessons! My goal is fun, after all!

So the real question is this: how much longer would it take if I did the Sport Certificate first, or what other disadvantages would I encounter?
 
If you haven't already, read this:

https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/advocacy-briefs/frequently-asked-questions-about-sport-pilot

Sport Pilot Highlights:
1) Day VFR flying only
2) Limited to aircraft with a Gross Wt of 1320 IBS
3) Limited to an altitude of 10,000 MSL or lower or 2,000 AGL
4) You can only carry one passenger

If you're healthy don't be scared of the medical certification process. Schedule an exam with an AME that isn't an "official" physical to make sure you don't have any disqualifying issues.

I think the Sport Pilot is a great option and as I age I will probably fly as a Sport Pilot at some point...
 
Weight and number of seats as noted above.

Day VFR, 10,000MSL are not a big deal most of the time. You also need a minimum of 3 miles visibility and can't fly above an overcast. Not an issue for me. A lot depends on what you want to do as a pilot...

The big problem could be finding a light sport aircraft for instruction.

Medical: 90% of the time it's not a big deal at all. But when it is big deal, it can be somewhere between a pain in the butt time and paperwork exercise to a total no-go.

Getting the sport certificate first adds the cost of an additional check ride to the cost of a private if you end up going that route.
 
Outside of the legal questions and limitations for sport pilots, there are a lot fewer LSAs available for rent than other aircraft. If you have one available locally go for it, but it may be hard to find one and get training in it. I also haven’t seen many/any clubs that have LSAs available.
 
Can one train in a non-LSA for a Sport license? I realize student solos and check-ride might be an issue.
 
Juliet Foxtrot said:
vs. a Private Pilot license?

My ultimate goal, of course, would be the PPL, but after reading here about the show-stopping medical certificate, I'd hate to find out something in that process that stopped me cold from ever even taking lessons! My goal is fun, after all!

So the real question is this: how much longer would it take if I did the Sport Certificate first, or what other disadvantages would I encounter?
Click to expand...
Whether or not you decide the Sport is worth it or not, if your ultimate goal is PPL, you'd be kicking the can down the road. And if for some reason you can't get the medical later you'd be disqualifying yourself from the Sport cert you earned. I'm not that much into test taking and check rides so I'd opt for the PPL if you can assure your medical(prior to submitting for the physical), to avoid the extra written exam and extra check ride.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
I do believe that you can. You only need a medical for non-LSA solo and a checkride in something that is not an LSA.
Click to expand...

I found this on the AOPA page:

I've already started my flight training toward the private pilot requirements. Can I transfer that flight training time over to the sport pilot certificate requirements?


Yes, you may do this. The FAA has clearly expressed that a student pilot certificate is a student pilot certificate, regardless of which certificate you are pursuing. Keep in mind, however, that a student pilot seeking a sport pilot certificate may not solo in an aircraft or perform the checkride in an aircraft other than a light-sport aircraft.
 
skier said:
Outside of the legal questions and limitations for sport pilots, there are a lot fewer LSAs available for rent than other aircraft. If you have one available locally go for it, but it may be hard to find one and get training in it. I also haven’t seen many/any clubs that have LSAs available.
Click to expand...
West Valley Flying Club has a Skycatcher for rent and instruction at Palo Alto Airport (PAO).
 
exncsurfer said:
Whether or not you decide the Sport is worth it or not, if your ultimate goal is PPL, you'd be kicking the can down the road. And if for some reason you can't get the medical later you'd be disqualifying yourself from the Sport cert you earned. I'm not that much into test taking and check rides so I'd opt for the PPL if you can assure your medical(prior to submitting for the physical), to avoid the extra written exam and extra check ride.
Click to expand...

Excellent point.
 
Other than having airplanes available that would qualify, I flew a few years as a Private Pilot where I had no need for any privileges that Sport Pilot wouldn’t have allowed. Had it been available at the time, I probably would have done Sport Pilot.
 
No way to rent an LSA in my area. Wondering if there'd be enough demand in this area to justify buying one for a rental? (But then, from what I've read, there's a whole lot of other issues with owning a rental airplane - !! )
 
I went the LSA --> PPL route and don't regret it. I flew for two or three years as a sport pilot and flew a pretty nice little LSA for a while. IMHO finding an sport pilot instructor shouldn't be hard because the sport pilot and PPL are VERY close to one another. The test is dang near the same and if you just go sport pilot instead of PPL you'll have already gotten the training. The hard part would be finding an aircraft you could train in.
 
Started as a sport pilot, and got three years under my belt. I then got my PPL. I am very happy with the route I took. The restrictions on a sport pilot are not a problem at all, and when I moved up, the extra training for the PPL was much more enjoyable.
 
I haven't seen any mention of the endorsements for a Sport Pilot Certificate that are all part of the Private Certificate. As a Sport Pilot you have to be endorsed to fly an airplane that has a Vh faster that 87 knots (§ 61.327(b) - if learning in a slower sport plane. If learning in a faster sport plane you need an endorsement for sport planes with a Vh slower than 87 knots (§ 61.327(a).

As a Sport Pilot you also need an endorsement to fly into towered airspace (§ 61.325). Even with the endorsement there are Class B airports where Sport Pilots are not allowed (I'm not flying my little airplane into Atlanta or Charlotte anyways o_O).

I have all these endorsements along with tail wheel which is not required for pilots that have logged pilot-in-command time in a tail wheel airplane prior to April 15, 1991. TW endorsement is required for any pilot desiring to fly a tail wheel aircraft after that date.
 
40YearDream said:
No way to rent an LSA in my area. Wondering if there'd be enough demand in this area to justify buying one for a rental? (But then, from what I've read, there's a whole lot of other issues with owning a rental airplane - !! )
Click to expand...
Rent it out? Hell no. Put in in an LLC and have partners/co-owners? Sure, that can work. Once in a while I’ll see one of my two co-owners fly over the house in “my” plane. I bought it, now I’m only into it for 1/3 what I paid, and we split all the fixed costs, maintenance, and repairs. Makes for some cheap flying, and it’s not like I’d be flying every day.

When I retire and CAN fly every day, I’ll finish the other one I’m building.

And remember that “LSA” covers a whole lot of ground, from old and cheap to newer and faster.
 
If you're thinking about training in a non-LSA plane and then switching to an LSA to get your SP ticket, allow for some transition time. LSAs can be a bit tricky to handle, and many LSA crashes were with an experienced Private Pilot who may not have been familiar enough with the LSA's characteristics. Cherokees and 172s will forgive landing mistakes that an LSA won't.

I earned my SP first and flew LSAs for a while before getting my PP. The SP limitations are fine with me except the LSA weight limit. I need to be able to load the plane with my wife plus luggage, and the LSA weight allowance just isn't high enough for two-person travel unless you pack extremely light.

I do think that getting a SP ticket first can be a good idea, though. The dropout rate among students is very high. Training for SP lets you get a certificate part way to getting your PP, so you can have the option to stop with a ticket in your pocket and the ability to fly. Sort of like getting an Associates en route to your Bachelor's.

I live in an area where LSA rentals are available, though, and you may not have access to a plane at your location.
 
Half Fast said:
...I need to be able to load the plane with my wife plus luggage, and the LSA weight allowance just isn't high enough for two-person travel unless you pack extremely light....
Click to expand...

And even then, you may not be able to carry enough fuel to really go anywhere.

I was able to carry full fuel in a Skycatcher if I flew alone and packed light. I could either carry a passenger or full fuel, but not both at the same time.
 
eman1200 said:
people with a PPL and up may give you a wedgie or stuff you in a school locker. other than that, it's ok.
Click to expand...
I flew LSAs exclusively for two years, and the only condescending attitude I encountered was from one briefer, who seemed to think that I was incapable of looking outside and avoiding clouds.
 
Palmpilot said:
I flew LSAs exclusively for two years, and the only condescending attitude I encountered was from one briefer, who seemed to think that I was incapable of looking outside and avoiding clouds.
Click to expand...
I got that as an ATP. I’ve actually gotten a “full, standard briefing” of “It’s IFR. You can’t go.”

“Nobody wants to be the last person to brief the dead guy,” but quite a few seem to be willing to be the last person to refuse to brief the dead guy.
 
Add in - modern airplanes are just as expensive and not as heavy. That has impacts when flying on windier days. I have seen sport rentals approaching $150/hr.
 
Don't go the sport pilot route until you know how hard it would be to get a medical. Schedule a consultation with an AME (do not fill out your paperwork for the medical), and discuss your concerns so you know what it will take to get a medical. Remember, you only need one, then you can fly BasicMed as long as you health situation doesn't change, and Sport Pilot as long as you can self certify.

I considered that route, and I am glad I went for my PPL. It turns out that my concerns were overblown, and my Yankee cost about half as much as a similar LSA.

In addition to the limitations listed, the ones that helped me make my decision:
Its really difficult to rent an LSA in many areas.
Sport Pilot will not take significantly less time, even if you can take the check ride with fewer hours, most student pilots will need more time to meet the standard.
--You are meeting the same standard as a private pilot for maneuvers on you check ride.
Sport Pilot will likely be more expensive, a club I used to fly with offered a Cessna 150 for $90/hour wet (plus $250 join fee, no monthly costs), the nearest LSA was a Cessna 162 with a prepay price of $140/hour and a walk in price of $180/hour (wet).
LSAs are more expensive if you intend to buy a plane. There are very few sport pilot eligible airplanes for Cessna 150 prices. And the ones that are tend to have some serious gotchas. For example: Luscombes and Ercoupes can have paperwork problems that can make their sport pilot status iffy. And useful loads can be quite small.

The thing that really pushed me to get my PPL, was an older pilot pointing out that for most people passing a medical now will be easier than passing a medical at any point in the future.
 
Half Fast said:
I earned my SP first and flew LSAs for a while before getting my PP. The SP limitations are fine with me except the LSA weight limit. I need to be able to load the plane with my wife plus luggage, and the LSA weight allowance just isn't high enough for two-person travel unless you pack extremely light.
Click to expand...
If I were flying with my wife, it would be mostly the size of the baggage area limiting us. I can put us, full fuel, and the full allowed baggage load and be under gross. 50# is quite a bit of luggage... if you're a guy. So for an overnight or a couple days, it's fine. It's exceedingly rare that she agrees to go anywhere in the plane, though. Oddly enough, while she wouldn't complain about getting bounced around on the motorcycle all day long, an hour of summer bumps in the plane and she's sworn off it for a few months.
 
DaleB said:
50# is quite a bit of luggage... if you're a guy.
Click to expand...


Agreed.

But my wife isn't a guy.

And sometimes I think she carries 50lbs just in her purse, forget her luggage.

Still, we could probably do a weekend trip in an LSA, but we want to use a plane to go off for a week or more at a time and we don't want to pack like we're going backpacking or taking a motorcycle trip. That's why I got my PP and I'm shopping for a Warrior or a Cherokee. But if I had been forced to stick with PP, I'd still be flying and happy. We would just ship a couple of bags to wherever we planned to go and only pack enough in the plane for a night or two.
 
For a passenger in an LSA, the first question is "How much do you weigh?", and the second is "How much do you really weigh?"
That's my greatest issue regardings LSAs.
As to the license, I'd definitely do a "run through" with an AME, off the record. Don't be paranoid if you are healthy, though, unless you have a diagnosis of OCD, ADHD, etc. from the past.
 
Palmpilot said:
And even then, you may not be able to carry enough fuel to really go anywhere.

I was able to carry full fuel in a Skycatcher if I flew alone and packed light. I could either carry a passenger or full fuel, but not both at the same time.
Click to expand...
That's not a universal truth. My LSA has a useful load of 540 pounds, with 26 gallons of fuel (enough for 5-6 hours legs if one has the fortitude). Full fuel gives me a payload of ~400 pounds. There is a 44-pound baggage area limitation, with room for 2 mid-size suitcases. The other plus is that it is difficult (nigh impossible) to get out of CG range in any combination of loading as long as you stay at or below MGW.
 
Ken Whitson said:
That's not a universal truth. My LSA has a useful load of 540 pounds, with 26 gallons of fuel (enough for 5-6 hours legs if one has the fortitude). Full fuel gives me a payload of ~400 pounds. There is a 44-pound baggage area limitation, with room for 2 mid-size suitcases. The other plus is that it is difficult (nigh impossible) to get out of CG range in any combination of loading as long as you stay at or below MGW.
Click to expand...
Yup. Useful load in mine is 571, load with full fuel is 452, and for the most part - "If it fits, it flies".
 
Ken Whitson said:
That's not a universal truth. My LSA has a useful load of 540 pounds, with 26 gallons of fuel (enough for 5-6 hours legs if one has the fortitude). Full fuel gives me a payload of ~400 pounds. There is a 44-pound baggage area limitation, with room for 2 mid-size suitcases. The other plus is that it is difficult (nigh impossible) to get out of CG range in any combination of loading as long as you stay at or below MGW.
Click to expand...

DaleB said:
Yup. Useful load in mine is 571, load with full fuel is 452, and for the most part - "If it fits, it flies".
Click to expand...

What types? (I might need to get one some day.)
 
RV-12. 110 KTAS on 5 GPH; it will do 120 KTAS if you don't mind burning another gallon per hour. It's 91 octane pump gas from the corner station, so it's not so much cost but range that keeps me poking along at 110 most of the time. We've only got a 20 gallon tank. I think we could get our cruise fuel consumption down some more with a little better tuning and maybe a very slight pitch change.
 
I didn't realize those had that much payload. That's not bad at all for a 2 seater.
 
Ken Whitson said:
That's not a universal truth. My LSA has a useful load of 540 pounds, with 26 gallons of fuel...
Click to expand...

Almost the same here - I have a 2008 Sportcruiser with 511.9 pounds useful load. 30 gallons of fuel means I have 331.9 pounds for myself and a passenger (or any baggage.) No baggage and I can take my wife or son with me on a flight...except neither has a desire to fly, so I do all my flying solo and have plenty of payload left.
 
Ken Whitson said:
That's not a universal truth. My LSA has a useful load of 540 pounds, with 26 gallons of fuel (enough for 5-6 hours legs if one has the fortitude). Full fuel gives me a payload of ~400 pounds. There is a 44-pound baggage area limitation, with room for 2 mid-size suitcases. The other plus is that it is difficult (nigh impossible) to get out of CG range in any combination of loading as long as you stay at or below MGW.
Click to expand...

DaleB said:
Yup. Useful load in mine is 571, load with full fuel is 452, and for the most part - "If it fits, it flies".
Click to expand...

rtk11 said:
Almost the same here - I have a 2008 Sportcruiser with 511.9 pounds useful load. 30 gallons of fuel means I have 331.9 pounds for myself and a passenger (or any baggage.) No baggage and I can take my wife or son with me on a flight...except neither has a desire to fly, so I do all my flying solo and have plenty of payload left.
Click to expand...

Those all beat the Skycatcher that I occasionally rent. Its useful load is only 456 lbs.
 
rtk11 said:
Almost the same here - I have a 2008 Sportcruiser with 511.9 pounds useful load.
Click to expand...

Sportcruiser is a fine LSA to own. You have me beat as I'm at 504 pounds useful load. If I add an auto pilot I'll lose more of my useful load. As it is I can carry myself, the wife, fuel for 2-1/2 hours with reserve and 40 pounds of baggage. But ... the wife don't ride very often so most times it's just me. My light sport legal experimental aircraft does all that I need an airplane for. I do sometimes miss the open cockpit flying I used to do in other planes I've owned. No option to fly this one unless the canopy is down, latched, and locked.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top