Must I really wear corrective lenses?

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New Glasses

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I saw the AME today. As situation would have, today was also the earliest day I could get in to get an eye exam...after seeing the AME.

The AME initially said that my left eye was 20/70, then he later reversed himself by saying it was actually 20/40 with 20/30 in the right eye. He said he could pass me with a comment in the limitations "Must Wear Corrective Lenses". I didn't protest because I knew I needed vision correction for limited those circumstances of distant reading and driving particularly during dusk. I've not worn glasses my entire life except the month Uncle Sam made me do so. My vision hasn't been the same since I just never did anything about it.

I went to my optometry appointment and after being shown what glasses can do for my vision, I WAS SOLD! There was no question that I was buying whatever they wanted to sell me.

My condition is nearsightedness with an astigmatism. I don't have a problem reading anything, including small print right in front of my face. I might not be able to read the N-number of another aircraft, but I'm okay with that. Nevertheless, I'll likely always wear the spectacles. HOWEVER...

My reading of the FAA requirements says that I don't need a limitation at 20/40.

How do I get the limitation removed?

Why you ask? What's it worth? What if I just happen to forget one day and end up being violated. I'd rather just remove the limitation and then use the spectacles at my option.
 
Class 3? Switch to Basic Med and if your driver’s license doesn’t have the limitation you’re good,
 
You’re right, you should not of been given the restriction, but the AME will need to correct it and my guess is he will refuse. Doubt if it will be worth the effort, and may open up a can of worms. I actually had a pilot whose vision could not be corrected to meet the standards “with correction”, but did meet the standards without correction. Passed him without any restrictions. Good Luck
 
If you are 20/40 uncorrected or better and you got a class 3 you should not need corrective lenses listed on your medical. If it was a Class 2 or class 1 you need to have 20/20 (corrected if necessary)
 
The optometrist said that she'd be happy to fill out any paperwork that I need for the FAA. I believe that it would be FAA Form 8500-7. The AME and I discussed my bringing one by within 10 days during the time we discussed him disqualifying me.

I noticed that the form on the FAA site says that it expired 6/30/2020.

Am I on the right track here? What to do about the expired form?
 
Years ago, I tested out at 20/40 and did have to argue with the AME (who primarily only did second classes) about the restriction. He did end up removing it.

I had a discussion with my current AME about the "must use amplification" restriction. Frankly, I suspect that if he had tested me, I would have passed. My hearing loss is very asymmetric, had I not told him I had the aids, he'd probably not noticed. But that is one of the dumbest restrictions to begin with. Headsets are amplification. If I'm not wearing my headset in most light planes, I'm not going to hear anything anyway. Back when I got started (which might have been the problem), we just wore earplugs and turned the radio way up, and the instructor had to yell.
 
I talked with the AME. He's sticking by his story that I was uncorrected far vision at 20/70. He says that I will need to work with the FAA to get the limitation removed. I don't think this is the best way for either of us.
  1. It's going to cause me headache
  2. They may question why he issued the medical
 
What I would do, and the docs can verify whether legal or not, is go to the opto/opthamologist and have them test your eyes. If 20/40 or better in each eye, print it out and carry it with you. Then at next medical, go to a different AME, or prior to it, go in get eyes tested again and bring in the results for the AME. I mean, what if you get lasik or something done, you don't get a new medical for that.
 
What I would do, and the docs can verify whether legal or not, is go to the opto/opthamologist and have them test your eyes. If 20/40 or better in each eye, print it out and carry it with you. Then at next medical, go to a different AME, or prior to it, go in get eyes tested again and bring in the results for the AME. I mean, what if you get lasik or something done, you don't get a new medical for that.
Or just get some glasses that you can wear all the time, and wear them all the time, since it will, um, enhance your life experience.
 
I have 20/20 in one eye and I test around 20/30 in the other eye. I don’t need glasses for anything but I got a prescription anyway and got a cheap pair of glasses with the automatic darkening style lenses. With the upgraded lenses I believe I was only out around $50 from Zenni optical and I generally will want sunglasses while flying or driving anyway.

Aside from that though I noticed a HUGE change in how far I can drive before feeling fatigued with the glasses vs without. I still don’t wear them at home or while working for the most part but I find I like them for driving and flying.

When I get my class 3 take them off but keep them with me. I test fine without.
 
Switch to Basic Med and quit worrying about it and quit screwing around with the FAA. You'll never need to see an AME again.
 
What I would do, and the docs can verify whether legal or not, is go to the opto/opthamologist and have them test your eyes. If 20/40 or better in each eye, print it out and carry it with you. Then at next medical, go to a different AME, or prior to it, go in get eyes tested again and bring in the results for the AME. I mean, what if you get lasik or something done, you don't get a new medical for that.
Lasik is possibly disqualifying, even though the FAA doesn't word it that way...they say "incompatible with flying duties".
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/medical_certification/faq/response12/
Here's the form you need for your optho. WIth that, the AME shouldn't go near your eyes...
https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/form/faa form 8500-7.pdf
That's the old version of the form. Notice the expiration date at the top right, but thanks. I had the Optometrist fill one out for me that expires 6/30/2020 (thanks FAA). Now I'm trying to find the right contact at the FAA to send it to.
Switch to Basic Med and quit worrying about it and quit screwing around with the FAA. You'll never need to see an AME again.
BM creates a limitation that I'd rather not fool with. The regulation needs to be rewritten, but that's a different topic.
 
As I said before, I think you passed the test without glasses and should of had no restrictions on the medical. I felt the AME would not of taken the restrictions off. Without knowing what the optometrist found, I think you are opening up a ‘can of worms’ by sending in the form to the FAA. Be prepared for them to leave the restrictions on or suggest further testing. I might be wrong, but I think this is a battle you might win, but are bigger battles ahead than this.
 
You’re right, you should not of been given the restriction, but the AME will need to correct it and my guess is he will refuse. Doubt if it will be worth the effort, and may open up a can of worms. I actually had a pilot whose vision could not be corrected to meet the standards “with correction”, but did meet the standards without correction. Passed him without any restrictions. Good Luck
Not so fast. OP failed on his FAA approved titmus or on the charts.

As he did not have the wisdom to postpone his AME visit (you let him discover your worse than standards FUNCTIONAL vision (even due to astigmatism) he should have deferred you, sent it in and then you needed to send a letter from your eyecare prof.

But better would have been to postpone the AME until AFTER you got correction, silly!
See, if astigmatism affects your ability to recognize the characters, FAA's view is that the same as seeing 20/70, even though you may be 20/40 with just the astigmatism removed. That's why AMEs are limited to FAA approved testing devices (and personally I think the titums is HARD on astigmatics).

Flyingron is mostly right- had you gone to the Eye care guy first the number written on FAA's form 8500-7- could be honored in lieu of his own equipment.

So what you need is a new flight physical, different AME who ues the cards and charts, not the titmus vision tester. You should have waited and gone to the eyecare guy first. I run into this all the time with the "But I'm perfectly fine" guys. It just costs them more rounds of care. We get the same thing with the "one visit per year 2 weeks B4 the medical" guys who get the BP meds changed 1.5 weeks prior to the flight physical and don't have the "we rechecked after 10 days and we're satisfied with his BP control note.

I can't tell other AMEs to do this but what I do is "no flight physical today. This isn't going to turn out well." "Go get what you need to have done, done, and come back when you're ready....." Everyone forgets that the flight physical is in fact the DPE ride with a designee. BE PREPARED. You wouldn't bomb on into a chekckride....or would you.

:(
 
AH, thanks Bruce. Now I know. I have always had problems with the Titmus. For years, I could squeak through 20/40 on eye charts but always had problems with the "machines."
I'm highly astigmatic. The newer style (one that looks like a rectangular box that tilts up rather than the older one which is kind of a beige cylinder with a long triangular viewing part) are more problematic. My ophthalmologists have always used projectors.
 
Where I screwed up is in telling him that I had an eye exam later that day, he was satisfied with the testing he did before I said that. I looked up Titmus test and he didn't ask me to wear anything until after he was going to say I failed uncorrected.

If I were going to complain, he has different lighting in the little exam room vs the hallway where the eye chart is located. Going from covering each eye immediately to the eye chart seemed to exacerbate my vision problems.

We're beyond the point of no return now. I've already been in communication with FAA Medical and I've given them my control number and the report from the optometrist, which indicates a mild grade 2 non-vision impeding cataract and a recommendation for an annual eye exam.

Maybe I was impetuous?
 
I don't understand why you wouldn't want to fly with your vision at it's best. You say you notice improved vision with glasses. What activities do you think the glasses will be more useful for than flying?

In the meantime, if you insist on flying at 20/40 uncorrected, you can now get a Basic Med exam and flying under that, or fly under the Class III with glasses. Not sure how old you are, but for most of use the Class III will need to be renewed in two years. From what I hear, an FAA modification to your certificate would take about that long anyway, even if you want to enter that morass.

Jon
 
Yep, I've worn glasses through my entire flying career, but it was about twenty years before I got the "MUST WEAR CORRECTIVE LENSES" followed by the "MUST POSSESS NEAR VISION LENSES." The last thing added was "MUST USE AMPLIFICATION" which the last two AMEs didn't even test for (I probably could have passed, hearing loss for me is very asymmetric). Headsets and even turning the radio speaker up are amplification. It's not like I can hear anything in a light plane without headsets anyhow. I learned to fly in the days where we just used squishy yellow earplugs and the radio turned up and the instructor shouting.
 
Must wear? Mine always said must have available. Moot point since I wear glasses most of the time anyway. I have some progressives that I don't care for in flight so I occasionally take them off. Who'd know? Who'd care? My safety is my responsibility.
 
"Must have available" is for when you fail the near vision test. If you fail distance, you have should have "must wear."
 
Makes sense. I can tell the sex of a mosquito from 100' but I can't read my watch. I blame my computer. My eye doc blames my number of trips around the sun.
 
Lasik is possibly disqualifying, even though the FAA doesn't word it that way...they say "incompatible with flying duties".
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/medical_certification/faq/response12/
Read that again. It doesn't say LASIK is incompatible with flying duties. It says there are potential complications that are incompatible with flying duties. If you've had LASIK and you meet the FAA vision standards (as is the case for many of us) you are good to go. So get LASIK, but don't go to one of the $99/eye, "20/20 or your money back" shops. Go to a real corneal surgeon and get good advice and treatment.
 
You have to show you're stable, free of complications, and have adequate vision. My wife had all sorts of Lasik complications, but once things settled down she was issued in office with no problems.
 
That's why AMEs are limited to FAA approved testing devices (and personally I think the titums is HARD on astigmatics).
...
So what you need is a new flight physical, different AME who ues the cards and charts, not the titmus vision tester.

Well that's enlightening. I have astigmatism and I hate those damn machines.
"Which line is going through the quarter note?"
It's halfway in between, and wtf does that have to do with my visual acuity?
 
You need to be careful where your head is placed with respect to the machine. If you're not on the sweet stop a lot of the stuff doesn't work. It's not a problem for me when I'm NOT wearing glasses, but my progressives seem to bollux up the thing.
 
Yesterday I flew for the first time with my new spectacles. I've been slowly getting used to them and some days are better than others.

My normal job has me teleworking at a computer screen all day as well as a lot of my personal life. I usually wear the glasses when out of the home. It took some time to get used to wearing them while driving including needing a frame adjustment. They put a slight curve on them. My other hobby is motorcycle racing and I'm apprehensive about wearing or not wearing them. I haven't made a decision about it but will get in a few practice sessions before making any final decisions.

Not hearing any feedback from the FAA, I nudged the bear. The responder said they are awaiting a signed letter from the Flight Surgeon. My fingers are crossed that I get what I asked for only, but I've heard scary stories of others' dealing with the FAA.
 
Must wear? Mine always said must have available. Moot point since I wear glasses most of the time anyway. I have some progressives that I don't care for in flight so I occasionally take them off. Who'd know? Who'd care? My safety is my responsibility.
But the safety of others is not just the FAA's responsibility; it's yours as well.
 
FAA Aeromedical called yesterday. They're going to fulfill my request. But they had a question about why the AME documented a corrected vision since I had not been prescribed glasses prior to the appointment. I told them, they'd have to ask the doc. She said she'd call him for QC reasons.

IMO the doc's personality is a bit strange and the office was unkept, but he seems competent enough, but not the kinda guy I'd put on the guest list to a Black tie dinner.
 
This should be the final report.

I received my new medical today with a preamble letter. I hope that I don't regret this decision. I can't copy/paste, so I'll type out a couple of lines.

Our review of your medical records has established that you are eligible for a third-class medical certificate....

We are enclosing a corrected third-class medical certificate removing the corrective lenses restriction....

And here's the part that gives me pause

You are cautioned to abide by Title 14 of the CFR's, Section 61.53, relating to operations during medical deficiency. Because of your history of cataract, operation of aircraft is prohibited at any time new symptoms of adverse changes occur in your health status.

The O.D. at the retail establishment made a comment on the form about indications of cataracts. Being pedantic, what constitutes "adverse changes...in my health status"? What if I get a runny nose, does it invalidate my 3rd class?
 
On a standard medical there are reminders about 61.3, .19, .23, .49, .53, .401 and .407

This does not mean that Big Brother is watching you (singular) any more than all of YOU (plural)- LoL. OTOH, because you took the system to task (and won?), you might fit the personality type for "enhanced surveillance". A friend of mine (a known "rabble rouser") would say that the system worked as intended. I haven't decided either way, nor have I died of mysterious circumstances.
 
This should be the final report.

I received my new medical today with a preamble letter. I hope that I don't regret this decision. I can't copy/paste, so I'll type out a couple of lines.

Our review of your medical records has established that you are eligible for a third-class medical certificate....

We are enclosing a corrected third-class medical certificate removing the corrective lenses restriction....

And here's the part that gives me pause

You are cautioned to abide by Title 14 of the CFR's, Section 61.53, relating to operations during medical deficiency. Because of your history of cataract, operation of aircraft is prohibited at any time new symptoms of adverse changes occur in your health status.

The O.D. at the retail establishment made a comment on the form about indications of cataracts. Being pedantic, what constitutes "adverse changes...in my health status"? What if I get a runny nose, does it invalidate my 3rd class?
61.53 applies to everyone. You may not operate an aircraft when you're medically unable to do so safely. The FAA is "reminding" you of this so you don't claim they gave you permission to fly despite a medical deficiency. IOW, if your vision is problematic, you're not medically for, despite the FAA removing the restriction on your medical.
 
This should be the final report.

I received my new medical today with a preamble letter. I hope that I don't regret this decision. I can't copy/paste, so I'll type out a couple of lines.

Our review of your medical records has established that you are eligible for a third-class medical certificate....

We are enclosing a corrected third-class medical certificate removing the corrective lenses restriction....

And here's the part that gives me pause

You are cautioned to abide by Title 14 of the CFR's, Section 61.53, relating to operations during medical deficiency. Because of your history of cataract, operation of aircraft is prohibited at any time new symptoms of adverse changes occur in your health status.

The O.D. at the retail establishment made a comment on the form about indications of cataracts. Being pedantic, what constitutes "adverse changes...in my health status"? What if I get a runny nose, does it invalidate my 3rd class?

Yeah I got the same letter saying I have to ground myself after eating spicy food. (Sorta sarcastic, but not really.)
 
You are cautioned to abide by Title 14 of the CFR's, Section 61.53, relating to operations during medical deficiency. Because of your history of cataract, operation of aircraft is prohibited at any time new symptoms of adverse changes occur in your health status.
It's the typical ass-covering by an organization that can't ever admit they are wrong. I had a false positive on a test that took me years to resolve with the FAA. There's no possibility that I would get the thing they claimed I had than anybody else in the population (actually, less likely as I had all the additional tests they insisted to show I really was negative). Still, the release from the special issuance said "stop flying and let us know if you ever do get the condition you don't have."
 
Seems that FAA medical is from an era where the government was paying for people "learnin' to fly them aeroplanes" and they needed to disqualify as many riff-raff as possible.
 
This never crossed my mind. I wear contacts, and it never occurred to me that during a ramp check this might somehow be an issue. I suppose I could physically take my contacts out to show.. but would they really ask?

Also.. seeing long distances helps in planes. Why not just wear the corrective lenses (or contacts) and (A) avoid the headache of removing the restriction and (B) be able to see long distances. As you said, you were "SOLD" - so why not wear them? It's not just about N-number reading.. but it really helps. Most of what you see out a plane window when you are at 10K is at least 2 miles away.. even at 4K when you're looking for that airport it helps to have crisp clear vision

PS, my eyes are "pretty good" - I can easily go about my day without contacts or glasses. But I'm a little "OCD" when it comes to my vision, and especially while flying.. I can't imagine flying with anything less than 20/20
 
Corrective Lenses.jpeg
 
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