Self Serve Fuel Manners RANT

E

ebetancourt

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
694
Location
Middle Tennessee
Display Name
Display name:
Ernie
I wanted to fly my Waco Taperwing this morning but I needed fuel. So I flew to the nearest airport. Called for the fuel truck, no answer so I taxied to the self serve pump. Note I am in a black open cockpit biplane and it’s 88 outside, the humidity is high and the sun is hot. Get to the pumps and there’s a Cessna 1 something parked with some folks milling around. First come, first served so I parked a couple of lengths behind and waited. Then more people come and there is a grand reunion. In the meantime I’m baking. Turn engine off, no use generating more heat. Wait. Wait. One guy is standing somewhat apart watching. Seventyish, but younger than me. Wait. Finally the reunion group leaves, the a*****e gets in the 172/182 and leaves. Wasn’t even waiting to fuel. 20 or so minutes sitting in the sun for no reason.
 
Coming home from my IFR practical. 172 at the fuel pump filling up. No big deal, I'll wait until he's done. Student pilot, with INSTRUCTOR does full student checklist starts engine and sits for 10 more minutes doing pre-taxi checklist in front of pump. Can't do your brake test and move away from the damn pump? I'm on ramp with engine running, but not right in back of this guy as I want him to see I'm waiting for the pump. Finally he moves and before I can start ANOTHER student pilot with an instructor pulls in front of me. Same crap show.. 45 minute delay. Karma won as I had a 50 knot tailwind going home and got from Kansas to Georgia on that one tank.
 
I've seen a surprising amount of clueless people in aviation as well. this guy thought it was a good idea to block the lane coming out of the hangar row to the ramp with his stupid little mini whatever while he was talking to his buddies. not only that, he's parked right in front of a fire hydrant. so I walked up near the car and looked around. after about 10 minutes the goober comes and moves his car.

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When I was flying air ambulance I needed fuel and planned to fuel at Flagstaff. It was about 1am.

There was a EMS King Air 90 sitting at the pumps. No one around.

After about an hour my med crew returned. I got them to help me push the King Air about 60-70 feet forward so I could pull up to the pumps. The slight slope to the ramp was very helpful.

The medics decided they wanted something to eat, so while I was fueling they went back to town to get some food. At that time of night the selections are very limited in Flagstaff. After I fueled my plane, I then taxied it over to the tiedown area to wait for my med crew. As I shut down, I noticed the other med team had returned. I got out of my plane and stood next to it looking at the other team.

They climbed into the King Air, fired up and left. I am not sure anyone even realized that the plane was not where they left it.
 
I take the work airplane to an airport in FL that is a fairly popular fuel stop for light airplanes. They don't have a fuel truck, just self serve for both jet-a and 100LL, and both tanks are right next to each other. Fuel there is cheap, so we'll take 1000+ gallons. They have a very slow pump, so it takes a good 30 min to fuel us, plus then we have to start engines and taxi away. There has been a few times when people have stopped in for fuel, and had to wait for us to finish. I feel bad, but there isn't much we can do....
 
My work location is about 15 minutes from the airport, so occasionally, I stretch the lunch hour a little and go for a short flight.

And there was the one day where one of the airport retirees had parked his Oldsmobuick immediately in front of my hangar door and gone to lunch with the balance of the geriatric crowd. If his car had been a few feet further from my hangar, I'd probably have set it on fire.
 
ebetancourt said:
Get to the pumps and there’s a Cessna 1 something parked with some folks milling around. First come, first served so I parked a couple of lengths behind and waited. Then more people come and there is a grand reunion. In the meantime I’m baking. Turn engine off, no use generating more heat. Wait. Wait. One guy is standing somewhat apart watching. Seventyish, but younger than me. Wait. Finally the reunion group leaves, the a*****e gets in the 172/182 and leaves. Wasn’t even waiting to fuel. 20 or so minutes sitting in the sun for no reason.
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I find a "can I give you a hand pushing your plane away from the pumps?" is a polite way of getting folks to stop bullsh!tting and move their plane out of the way. I guess they figure anyone flying an open cockpit biplane is not in a hurry.
 
How about when the fuel hose nozzle is underneath the reel? That one is great especially if you are short (which means you get to practically crawl inside the housing to get enough leverage to pull the hose out - it is probably pretty funny to watch, though...), and it is 15* and windy.
 
Submitted for your (dis)approval.

I can see reasons why the pickup truck had to be backed up to the hangar. I *don't* see why the motorcycle had to be parked by the front bumper, extending further across the taxiway.
hangar row blocked2.jpg
Obviously, at least four people in that hangar. Several of them glanced out toward me, getting ready to go on the taxiway. None of them thought to move the motorcycle....I had to go ask.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Brad Z said:
I find a "can I give you a hand pushing your plane away from the pumps?" is a polite way of getting folks to stop bullsh!tting and move their plane out of the way. I guess they figure anyone flying an open cockpit biplane is not in a hurry.
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I had a major back fusion last year. Supposed to limit myself to 30 pound lift, several other restrictions. Getting in and out of a Taperwing is not easy, so not really an option. I did think about pulling in front of him, aim the tail back and lean for full power. The joy of a taildragger. But the group seemed mostly just ignorant of airplanes in general and no reason to disturb their reunion.
 
eman1200 said:
I've seen a surprising amount of clueless people in aviation as well. this guy thought it was a good idea to block the lane coming out of the hangar row to the ramp with his stupid little mini whatever while he was talking to his buddies. not only that, he's parked right in front of a fire hydrant. so I walked up near the car and looked around. after about 10 minutes the goober comes and moves his car.

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another big peeve of mine is anybody that parks in a hangar row and goes off without leaving the keys in the car. i will park in front of my next door neighbors hanger sometimes, but he knows the keys will be in the truck and just move it in front of my hangar. now, if i take the Vette to the airport it gets locked in the hanger. :D
 
Back when I was VKX, Aviation Adventures moved in and were a royal pain in the ass. Not only did they have Wartofsky evict me and a couple of others from our front row tie-downs so Adventures could park their planes togehter, the morons would leave their planes blocking the fuel pumps between lessons while they debriefed their students and lined up the next one. In addition, the prime parking spaces didn't apparently help their idiot instructors as they still managed to taxi into a 337 sitting on Bobbi's ramp (which is behind the rear row of tie downs, no reason for them even to be back there). Of course, they were the first ones to bail from VKX after 9/11 so I hope Dave learned his lesson about giving considerations to *******s.
 
eman1200 said:
I've seen a surprising amount of clueless people in aviation as well. this guy thought it was a good idea to block the lane coming out of the hangar row to the ramp with his stupid little mini whatever while he was talking to his buddies. not only that, he's parked right in front of a fire hydrant. so I walked up near the car and looked around. after about 10 minutes the goober comes and moves his car.

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Need to fire up one of those jets in the back and let the jet blast take care of that car... :D


SkyChaser said:
How about when the fuel hose nozzle is underneath the reel?
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Or when people don’t roll the hose back up after using and leave it unwinded out on the tarmac... lazy!
 
wanttaja said:
None of them thought to move the motorcycle....I had to go ask.

Ron Wanttaja
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The geriatric crowd I mentioned earlier was associated with an ultralight instructor who taught a lot of them to fly. Great guy. The one thing he didn't teach was "don't block the ramp". Those guys had waves of cars, trucks, bikes, trailers, and whateverthehellelse scattered around the ramp every day for years. It was like they were members of the Anti Destination League. It was maddening. I was forever walking down there to get someone to move a vehicle so I could taxi out. I never understood why they didn't park in the big, flat, grassy area right beside his hangar.

That parking mess was one of a couple of reasons why I switched hangars a few years ago.
 
unsafervguy said:
another big peeve of mine is anybody that parks in a hangar row and goes off without leaving the keys in the car.
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It wasn't a hangar row but rather the entrance to a loading dock area where I worked years ago. A salesman had parked his personal truck in front of the loading dock door driveway and left with the steering wheel locked straight ahead, the emergency brake set, and the keys in his pocket.

We went and got a floor jack and lifted the truck up by the third member (hog head) and rolled it way down the lot and around the corner of the building and left it there. When he showed up that afternoon he was fit to be tied as he was in a hurry and nobody would tell him where his vehicle was. He did find it and he never blocked that driveway again ...
 
ebetancourt said:
I had a major back fusion last year. Supposed to limit myself to 30 pound lift, several other restrictions. Getting in and out of a Taperwing is not easy, so not really an option. I did think about pulling in front of him, aim the tail back and lean for full power. The joy of a taildragger. But the group seemed mostly just ignorant of airplanes in general and no reason to disturb their reunion.
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In that case one of these should do the trick...
https://www.amazon.com/Pyle-Megaphone-Speaker-Bullhorn-Built/dp/B07GM59BD2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=air+horn&qid=1594006427&sr=8-1&th=1

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I'm going to get flamed for this, but I think the OP was the clueless one. I'd have hopped out of my Waco, walked up to the gaggle and asked if they were getting fuel. Were they not I would have asked them to move out of the way so I could do so. I would have offered to help moving their airplane.

I had this very same thing happen on my last flight. As I was taxiing back to my hangar there was an aircraft halfway out of its hangar with a gaggle around it. My hangar row is one way in one way out. It didn't look like it was going anywhere, so I approached to a safe distance and shut down. Idiots thought I could just taxi past, I invited them to look at the position of my wing. Finally I got them to move the damn airplane back in its hangar so I could drag my own airplane back to my hangar in the 90 degree heat. Just to add insult to injury there was a note in my hangar (I left it open) that taxiways were for aircraft movement.
 
eman1200 said:
I've seen a surprising amount of clueless people in aviation as well. this guy thought it was a good idea to block the lane coming out of the hangar row to the ramp with his stupid little mini whatever while he was talking to his buddies. not only that, he's parked right in front of a fire hydrant. so I walked up near the car and looked around. after about 10 minutes the goober comes and moves his car.

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View attachment 87333
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wanttaja said:
Submitted for your (dis)approval.

I can see reasons why the pickup truck had to be backed up to the hangar. I *don't* see why the motorcycle had to be parked by the front bumper, extending further across the taxiway.
View attachment 87337
Obviously, at least four people in that hangar. Several of them glanced out toward me, getting ready to go on the taxiway. None of them thought to move the motorcycle....I had to go ask.

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...

steingar said:
I had this very same thing happen on my last flight. As I was taxiing back to my hangar there was an aircraft halfway out of its hangar with a gaggle around it. My hangar row is one way in one way out. It didn't look like it was going anywhere, so I approached to a safe distance and shut down. Idiots thought I could just taxi past, I invited them to look at the position of my wing. Finally I got them to move the damn airplane back in its hangar so I could drag my own airplane back to my hangar in the 90 degree heat. Just to add insult to injury there was a note in my hangar (I left it open) that taxiways were for aircraft movement.
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As you can see in the vid, I have to taxi between the FBO and end of the row of hangars. One way in/out, and often jackwagons park their cars next to the picnic tables and/or across from them at the corner of the end of hangar row. Nevermind you can see the BIG car parking lot on the other side of the fence. It really cheeses me when I cannot find the owners of the vehicles and am stuck until they return.

Whats so danged hard about parking in the parking lot? It's but a few extra steps.

 
I block the whole pumps I don't care. If someone is in a hurry they are welcome to climb ladders and help fill up. When I'm done, I move the airplane out of the way, even if that means loading the wheelchair and starting the airplane.

Usually I park as close to the FBO as physically possible, unless a line person can give us a lift from the airplane to the building. Being disabled can be a real PITA. If really windy or turbine traffic I'll pick the closet tied down after dropping disabled pax at the FBO door.
 
Bill Jennings said:
As you can see in the vid, I have to taxi between the FBO and end of the row of hangars. One way in/out, and often jackwagons park their cars next to the picnic tables and/or across from them at the corner of the end of hangar row. Nevermind you can see the BIG car parking lot on the other side of the fence. It really cheeses me when I cannot find the owners of the vehicles and am stuck until they return.

Whats so danged hard about parking in the parking lot? It's but a few extra steps.
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I can understand a visitor or a passenger not knowing better. What cheesed me was this was a pilot and airplane owner who, from all appearances, was just showing off his pride and joy.
 
steingar said:
I can understand a visitor or a passenger not knowing better. What cheesed me was this was a pilot and airplane owner who, from all appearances, was just showing off his pride and joy.
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These aren't visitors, they're old crotchety pilots who think they can park wherever they like. Gotta have a prox key card to get through that gate.
 
kyleb said:
an ultralight instructor who taught a lot of them to fly
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Working on my retread a few years ago, some not quite an ultralight decided to practice sitting on the runway. I think I made 3 trips around the pattern before they finally took off.
 
Hey, we're all still around to discuss it, right? Inconvenience is real, and hopefully some folks will learn from this and be more thoughtful when they find themselves in this scenario, but brooding over it and being bitter and frustrated is like taking a poison pill yourself and waiting for them to die. Cheer up.
 
Wait for a bit, then taxi it in nose to nose. Then just sit there, or go inside the FBO and have some coffee or water, sit down, read a magazine, peruse the bulletin board, etc...
Maybe they will get the hint.

Just like the people that don't know how to park carsin between the lines. I'll pull in close with my pax side about 2" from the driver side door. Then pick out a spot to sit and watch when they come out.
 
kyleb said:
My work location is about 15 minutes from the airport, so occasionally, I stretch the lunch hour a little and go for a short flight.

And there was the one day where one of the airport retirees had parked his Oldsmobuick immediately in front of my hangar door and gone to lunch with the balance of the geriatric crowd. If his car had been a few feet further from my hangar, I'd probably have set it on fire.
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I would have "helped" them move the plane out of the way.

It drives me crazy when the guy in front of me takes 40 minutes to put 20 gallons of fuel in his 172. 10 gallons per side. Drag the ladder from one side to the other. Run the pump at about 1/4 speed so you don't spill any. Climb up and down 3 or 4 times and walk over to the pump to make sure you get exactly 10 gallons per side. Holy crap.
 
steingar said:
I can understand a visitor or a passenger not knowing better.
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Yeah visitors and passengers can’t drive their cars onto the tarmac. There’s a group of graybeards that hang around the FBO and park their car at the end of the hangar row even though there’s more than a few ‘NO PARKING ANYTIME’ signs. The tarmac isn’t a parking lot but I think it makes them feel special to pull their vehicle through the gate and park even though they aren’t flying.
 
Ryanb said:
Yeah visitors and passengers can’t drive their cars onto the tarmac. There’s a group of graybeards that hang around the FBO and park their car at the end of the hangar row even though there’s more than a few ‘NO PARKING ANYTIME’ signs. The tarmac isn’t a parking lot but I think it makes them feel special to pull their vehicle through the gate and park even though they aren’t flying.
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Were that to happen where I'm based during the week those cars would be summarily towed at their owners expense. Things are a bit looser on weekends.
 
steingar said:
Were that to happen where I'm based during the week those cars would be summarily towed at their owners expense. Things are a bit looser on weekends.
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They're all buds with the guy running the desk, nobody's towing nothing lol.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Hey, we're all still around to discuss it, right? Inconvenience is real, and hopefully some folks will learn from this and be more thoughtful when they find themselves in this scenario, but brooding over it and being bitter and frustrated is like taking a poison pill yourself and waiting for them to die. Cheer up.
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Hey, at least nobody has referred to which airports these things have happened at by their Identifiers and really gone and fired some of these folks up ;)
 
My pet peeve is why can't folks roll up the hose in a neat fashion instead of hitting the return button, dragging the nozzle across the pavement, or worse, the dirt, and rolling the hose up into a big rats nest.??
 
Zeldman said:
My pet peeve is why can't folks roll up the hose in a neat fashion instead of hitting the return button, dragging the nozzle across the pavement, or worse, the dirt, and rolling the hose up into a big rats nest.??
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We have a few idiots at our field that never disconnect the grounding clamp. Brand new pump and grounding reel. I find the grounding clamp missing. Ask the manager if someone taxied away with it attached again...yep. This has got to be like the 10th time.
 
Was at LLano (KAQO) a couple of years ago. Only one narrow taxiway from fuel to the asphalt runways. Recent rain so not using the grass runway. I fueled, went to the bathroom, sumped, cleaned up the cockpit (basically at least 30 min) and this guy is sitting there engine running the entire time. I walked up and knocked on the window as he wasn't responding on CTAF. He proceeds to finally taxi at 45 minutes since I started fueling. I didn't pay attention to his departure, only to find he didn't. He went to the other departure end, behind the slope, with a 22 knot tailwind.

As I announced preparing to depart, he finally piped up didn't I hear him. I responded there have been zero transmissions. He was STILL running up, I announced and departed. He did too several minutes later, and he caught me about 25 min later from behind, head down with a better than 40 knot over-take. I knew exactly who it was from FF and my PCAS.
 
eman1200 said:
I've seen a surprising amount of clueless people in aviation as well. this guy thought it was a good idea to block the lane coming out of the hangar row to the ramp with his stupid little mini whatever while he was talking to his buddies. not only that, he's parked right in front of a fire hydrant. so I walked up near the car and looked around. after about 10 minutes the goober comes and moves his car.

View attachment 87332

View attachment 87333
Click to expand...

wanttaja said:
Submitted for your (dis)approval.

I can see reasons why the pickup truck had to be backed up to the hangar. I *don't* see why the motorcycle had to be parked by the front bumper, extending further across the taxiway.
View attachment 87337
Obviously, at least four people in that hangar. Several of them glanced out toward me, getting ready to go on the taxiway. None of them thought to move the motorcycle....I had to go ask.

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...
Neither seem to be a high wing problem :)
 
A lot of the times on longer cross countries if we have a fuel stop and I don't see anyone around I'll fill up then walk in to use the bathroom, get weather updates, and file the next flight plan. That's the only scenario in which I feel like it's acceptable to leave a plane blocking access to the fuel pump... and then only because nobody appears to be around. I try to keep an eye out so I can move if someone shows up.

The thing is the Lance is hard to hot-start so I don't want to do that just to move it and shut down, it's not particularly easy to move by hand either and the tow bar is usually buried under baggage when we're traveling so if I don't see anyone coming I'm just going to wait until we're ready to go.
 
I haven't had any bad experiences myself. However last time I was at Big Bear someone in a "SARATOGA II TC" appeared to have some kind of hot start issues, sat there for 20 minutes before finally pushing the plane out so I could get gas and move on

I was less annoyed with him, and more frustrated at the garbage technology of our 1940s engines.. million dollar plane (it looked new) and you can't start it if it recently ran and you lack the appropriate voodoo skill

Granted.. while hot starting a big turbo'd fuel injected engine is not easy, it's also not impossible.. squirt the primer, full lean, and crank as you advance the mixture. Always worked in the Cirrus at least T, TN, NA.. with the NA being the easiest (by far) to hot start
 
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