Looking to upgrade avionics

MrPutz

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Feb 19, 2020
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Mesa, AZ
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MrPutz
Hello All,
Newbie here trying to learn all I can as quickly as I can. I close on a '67 Piper Cherokee 235 Monday and appears most the instruments are original. :( So looking to replace some antiques with something I've at least seen before. Here's the center dash now;

Collins 250 audio panel
KY-97A Com1
Narco MK-12A Com2
King KT76A transponder
Panel blank
wing leveller?

There is no ADSB in, the plane is not airworthy until the ADSB & annual are complete so not even sure what works yet? I'm looking for an avionics guy around the Falcon Field area in Mesa, Az.

My goal is not to convert to glass and spend $$$$ but to simply shoot for bang for buck with a simple, cost effective solution. I trained in a Archer II with a 430 Garmin so there's my comfort zone.

Here's my initial plan and appreciate comments, ideas, etc...

  • Replace Collins audio with anything more modern
  • Keep the Bendix KY97A as Com2
  • Replace the Narco MK-12A with a Garmin 430
  • Replace King KT76A with a Garmin GTX345 that's ADSB complient
Does this sound like a good direction to give this a little upgrade and try to stay under $10-12 grand?fOsSfmRg.jpeg
 
You should consider GTX-375, a WaaS GPS and ADS-B in & out transponder combined.

With the strongest language possible, seriously consider a new audio panel like PS Engineering 8000T or best yet 450B
 
-New Audio Panel
-GNX 375 gets you an ADSB in/out transponder and nice IFR GPS
-GNC 255 Nav/Com (or used SL30 if you can find one) for your Com 1
-Keep the KY97A for com 2
- An indicator for the GPS/VOR

That would give you a very capable IFR stack retaining your basic 6 pack. Still not going to be cheap and will be more than $10k but Reasonable with a lot of capability.

I did an audio panel (Garmin 350C) GNX 375 and new (used) indicator and retained the two Narco 12D Nav/Coms in a ‘67 Cherokee 180 last year in order to get an IFR GPS and ADSB compliant. Cost was about $14k. Don’t think I’d spend $5-6k plus install on a used 430.

Absolutely love the GNX 375. Way better to use than the 430 I have experience with and being able to send flight plans to it from ForeFlight is awesome.

Your panel looks familiar.
C28F34C1-7611-4C89-B9B3-3E832D3514FD.jpeg
 
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Welcome to the forum Brian. Perhaps when you get it back flying again you can join Arizona's motley crew of flyers.
 
-New Audio Panel
-GNX 375 gets you an ADSB in/out transponder and nice IFR GPS
-GNC 255 Nav/Com for your Com 1
-Keep the KY97A for com 2
- An indicator for the GPS/VOR

That would give you a very capable IFR stack retaining your basic 6 pack. Still not going to be cheap but Reasonable with a lot of capability.

BryanM’s List is probably your best options. For you I would stay away from the 430, as the cost of wiring a 430 and GTX-345 is more expensive than wiring the GTX-375. You would be very happy with this stack and add resale to the aircraft.

if you look at a PSE-450B or PSE-8000 w/Bluetooth, you will be blown away with the clarity of the audio in stereo coupled with modern radio like the GNC-255A. You’ll also be able to integrate your panel with ForeFlight and hear audio annunciations over the PSE products to your headset, and integrate with the GPS. It’ll be a substantially improved flying experience.

You’re very likely looking at 20 grand, since everything you have is beyond obsolete.
 
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the plane is not airworthy until the ADSB & annual are complete
Just to be clear here, ADS-B is not an airworthiness item. It's required in certain airspace but not all airspace. And getting a waiver or two is easy and mostly automated via the ADSB Deviation Authorization Preflight Tool (ADAPT, which is an offshoot of the SAPT tool).

Also, your original initial plan does not budget for an indicator, so you'll likely be above your target budget.

And to echo what others have said, GNX375
 
I'll third BrianM's recommendations. A 430W is old technology, and there is no way I would do a fresh installation with one now. It is 20+ year old tech. An audio panel is a must. Depending on the age of the audio switching panel you have, it will be difficult to impossible to connect new avionics to it. The full do-up ain't gonna happen for $10-12k, though.

Before you go with G5s or similar, the autopilot should probably go as well. The big benefit of the G5s or similar is GPSS.
 
Given what it cost me to do audio panel and the GNX 375 my guess is you are going to be just over $20k to do the list above.

Then when you are ready to spend the second $20k+ for phase two you can install dual G5s and a GFC 500 autopilot. That will give you a seriously solid IFR cross country machine.
 
You're more or less going to want to throw all that stuff away. I wouldn't even keep the KY97 at this point; put in a GTR225 for $1800 (plus labor, of course) and be done with it. It'll be way cheaper to do that "while you're in there" than to do it later when the KY97 quits (and it will).

In any event, unless you DIY the install, I can't see any circumstance in which you pay a shop to re-do that panel and stay at $10-12k.
 
And when you are installing your WAAS GPS, you will find you need to replace the CDI, too. (The CDI is always a "surprise" cost for some reason, but it is required for IFR.) The cost of the replacement CDI might start to tilt your thoughts toward putting in at least one G5 in the first go-round. Building an IFR panel is really hard to do piecemeal. One thing seems to lead to another.
 
I don't believe the OP said anything about wanting a "serious IFR cross-country machine". Just a more modern panel. My hit is that he CAN do it for 10K if we can get the Garmin weenies to slow down and consider some other ways of doing things. And no, a CDI is *NOT* required for IFR but then again, as I just said, the OP said NOTHING about IFR.
 
I don't believe the OP said anything about wanting a "serious IFR cross-country machine". Just a more modern panel. My hit is that he CAN do it for 10K if we can get the Garmin weenies to slow down and consider some other ways of doing things. And no, a CDI is *NOT* required for IFR but then again, as I just said, the OP said NOTHING about IFR.

Assuming we're talking about GPS, I'm pretty sure every IFR GPS installation manual I've seen requires an external CDI for IFR installation approval (other than those that aren't approach certified, which at this point are mostly paper weights).
 
Wow Guys, Thanx for the great responses! I'll need time to look over your suggestions and research the equipment. However, at this point I'm not IFR certified and will be flying VFR for quite some time so not looking to "IFR cert" the plane. Just want to upgrade the 53 year instruments so even 20yr old technology would be great leap for me! With that said it would be foolish to pay good money for an old Garmin 430 if I can get something newer, better for just a few more $$. So if you have more suggestions on a modest VFR setup that I can keep under $12k I'd appreciate it. If really needed I could go a few grand more but just want to get my dash out of the stone age. :) As far as cross-country I'm still working, learning, building hours, & getting comfortable with small day trips. In the next year or two will be looking to go on some 1000 mile trips to visit family.
Again, appreciate you all taking the time to educate me.
 
For the best bang for your buck and the fact you have used a 430 before and it's your comfort zone, you can stay within budget (or close to it) with what you have listed. You will need a CDI with both vertical/horizontal needles.

I had such out of date avionics last year in my '64 PA28-140, that i rented a Cessna with 430W for some IFR training and after seeing how much more a modern GPS added to utility of plane I updated mine with a newer Garmin GPS 175 and used Garmin GI-106B indicator. I already had two radios with VOR capability and one with ILS, I could see where you would want a GPS 430 or similar radio with NAV. I had already upgraded to a Skybeacon and used Garmin 327 before the announcement of the newer touch screen Garmin units, so the 375 was not considered. I probably spent around total $10K for everything last year as an 'owner assisted' install with my A&P helping with all the cable harnesses, but $10K will disapear very quickly with what you are starting with.

One thing my mechanic and I added was a used PS Engineering audio panel PMA7000-M*S. It may be the biggest upgrade for pure flying enjoyment in my plane, especially with passengers. There is no crackling, crystal clear sound, and a playback button of last radio call. Anything in the 8000 series PS Engineering line, or similar from Garmin, will be a huge improvement of what you have.

Good luck, nice looking and capable plane from what little we can see.
 
Suggestion- fly it for 3-12 months until everything that’s broke or gonna break, or a post-closing surprise gets fixed. Then work on the avionics after? If you’re VFR only, fly with VORs, ded reckoning, ForeFlight, etc. Stay out of Class C, B airspace and delay ADSB as well.

And congrats, cool plane. Let’s get some pics up in heah!
 
For the best bang for your buck and the fact you have used a 430 before and it's your comfort zone, you can stay within budget (or close to it) with what you have listed. You will need a CDI with both vertical/horizontal needles.

I had such out of date avionics last year in my '64 PA28-140, that i rented a Cessna with 430W for some IFR training and after seeing how much more a modern GPS added to utility of plane I updated mine with a newer Garmin GPS 175 and used Garmin GI-106B indicator. I already had two radios with VOR capability and one with ILS, I could see where you would want a GPS 430 or similar radio with NAV. I had already upgraded to a Skybeacon and used Garmin 327 before the announcement of the newer touch screen Garmin units, so the 375 was not considered. I probably spent around total $10K for everything last year as an 'owner assisted' install with my A&P helping with all the cable harnesses, but $10K will disapear very quickly with what you are starting with.

One thing my mechanic and I added was a used PS Engineering audio panel PMA7000-M*S. It may be the biggest upgrade for pure flying enjoyment in my plane, especially with passengers. There is no crackling, crystal clear sound, and a playback button of last radio call. Anything in the 8000 series PS Engineering line, or similar from Garmin, will be a huge improvement of what you have.

Good luck, nice looking and capable plane from what little we can see.

Good info.
I fly out of KFFZ which is a class-D airspace so do need the ADSB. I originally thought a wing tip or tail ADSB would be the way to go but it was pointed out to me that if I go in dash I could also upgrade the transponder for not much more $$ so seemed a better choice? I'm old school and prefer analog needles to digital readouts. I appreciate the KISS (Keep it Simple Silly) philosophy and would rather glance at the gauge's needle position then having to stop and actually read numbers off a gauge (same thing we did back in my racing [pit crew] days). I will research the audio and see what I can find.

Suggestion- fly it for 3-12 months until everything that’s broke or gonna break, or a post-closing surprise gets fixed. Then work on the avionics after? If you’re VFR only, fly with VORs, ded reckoning, ForeFlight, etc. Stay out of Class C, B airspace and delay ADSB as well.

And congrats, cool plane. Let’s get some pics up in heah!

As mentioned I will need ADSB now and was told the Narco's are not any good anymore as they can't tune into all the frequencies? I did purchase an iPad mini, Stratux, and Fore-flight so I'd have backup Nav and ADSB in. I feel much more comfortable now being able to detect other planes around me. I'm not really an Apple/Mac/iStuff fan but since Fore-flight seemed to capture most the market share decided to give it a try. Currently I struggle with the way the GPS tracks (probably a setting) and have to keep centering the plane in the view. I also purchased the Synthetic Vision as a poor man's IFR if I ever got into a situation were VFR was lost. I know it's not a legal system but if it gets me down safely we can discuss that. hee hee hee But, I have not been able to use the synthetic vision as it keeps displaying upside down? I've looked for settings, rotated the iPad, etc... Just fuels my distaste for iStuff. But I'm giving it time and hoping it's just a learning curve and trying to be more patient and open minded (says the Windows Server Admin).

Here's some pics of the plane. It's a 1 owner plane all it's life and lived in Colorado & New Mexico, its new home is Mesa, AZ. All logs complete and was flown at least 20 hrs per year with 5041TT, 1340 SMOH, & 55 SPOH constant speed prop (which is why I flew a Cessna 182 for my high performance rating). Useful load of 1283 lbs. I trained in a Archer II PA28-181 and thought I would buy one of those as I loved everything about it. But after landing in Sedona in the summer with just me and my instructor I was amazed how density altitude affected the plane, I could hardly get back to pattern altitude after a go-around. After that I thought "that's it 200hp minimum for this big boy!" :) More interested in density altitude with all the mountains here in AZ, fuel burn, maintenance costs, and KISS, so retracts didn't make sense to me. I'm so excited I can fly 156mph as the crow flies compared to my 65mph following a highway that I'm very content with the performance. :)Udx4hCxg (1024x683).jpg Udx4hCxg (1024x683).jpg 4VR12Dfw (1024x683).jpg -nCsG7aA (1024x683).jpg
 

Nice looking plane. Looks like a great acquisition. Realistically you’re gonna be spending probably $20K-22K to get a good minimal center stack, considering the entire center stack has to be replaced.

Remember the wiring is also older than father time. It’s a big job as most of the wiring will probably have to be replaced as well. Good idea to update to circuit breakers from fuses if so equipped.

You have some good ideas here from the members, next stop is the avionics shop. Let us know what they quote.
 
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Sigh....I've STILL got the slowest plane in Arizona :(

I don't know? My friend has a Cherokee 140. He and I were both way North of 250 lbs when we flew to Eloy for training. He removed 15 gallons of fuel before we left, I don't know what the net fuel was as I was pretty green then. But when I landed in Eloy, taxied back and tried to take off in the 100 degree day I used most the runway with 10 degrees flaps (his call) and at the end of the runway when i was just about to jump into ground affect he asks "are you at full throttle?" I laughed and said, "is this really your plane?"

After all the training, weight and balance sheets they made me do I knew we were taxing that poor little thing. I've never flown in it again. :)
 
Well have your friend join the forum. That way I'll have at least a fighting chance of keeping up with him if we ever meet up at a fly in.
 
Congrats. Nice looking plane! You made the right decision going with the 235 in your situation. I've owned 4 Cherokees - 160 hp, 180 hp, 200 hp Arrow and a 235 hp. The last was the most versatile of the bunch. I fly in the northern Rockies, so have the same desire for climb rate and useful load.

...I'm looking for an avionics guy around the Falcon Field area in Mesa, Az.

...

Talk to Ivan Villarreal at Valley Avionics at your home airport (KFFZ?). I don't have direct experience, but two of my friends each took their Comanches to Valley for major panel upgrades. The work was excellent, and they both came back very satisfied with the quality and price.
 
Well have your friend join the forum. That way I'll have at least a fighting chance of keeping up with him if we ever meet up at a fly in.

Tim, stop whining. You've got the nicest looking Cherokee in the Republic fergawdsake. How's anybody supposed to admire it if you're going by them at a 1000 mph??
 
I'm fairly certain we both know the etymology of the word "assume"? And why are you all so fixated on "IFR" and "GPS"? There is another world out there.

Jim
I'm fairly certain we both know the etymology of the word "assume"? And why are you all so fixated on "IFR" and "GPS"? There is another world out there.

Jim

You said a CDI is not required for IFR. In what situation is that true? A CDI is certainly required for VOR/LOC/ILS in the IFR system.
 
Look at Trig, I think their com and transponder are plug and play for your BK stuff. Might save you a bit on labor. I wouldn’t invest any fun tickets into the 430 platform, when mine dies it’s gone. All of the new 2” form factor GPS’s from Garmin are great. But if you are not going IFR fight now, I’d do a radio, audio panel, and transponder with a 760 and “panel mount” it as best you can....it’s an amazing device. Congrats on the new plane, enjoy the hell out of her!
 
I can’t even get a shop to give me a quote (NV, CA) they’re so overwhelmed; I guess with transponder installations, problems thereof, and short staff. I’d be happy to give someone nearby $25k to put in some nav/com/gps junk, but they won’t even return calls. Seems like priorities out of whack, but, I don’t run their businesses, so..??
I think someone could open a shop that doesn’t do stupid transponders only, and take customers from the people who do. All you’d have to do is be responsive, and you’d be miles ahead.
 
Here's the center dash now;

Collins 250 audio panel
KY-97A Com1
Narco MK-12A Com2
King KT76A transponder
Panel blank
wing leveller?

My goal is not to convert to glass and spend $$$$ but to simply shoot for bang for buck with a simple, cost effective solution. I trained in a Archer II with a 430 Garmin so there's my comfort zone.

That's quite a museum you have there!

My first question: How long do you plan to keep this plane? If you think this is something you're going to use for a couple of years and then move on to something else, then throw a SkyBeacon on it for ADS-B Out and be done with it.

If this is your "forever plane", you're likely better off putting more into it now and having something that's both nice and will last a good long time.

I wouldn't necessarily count on anything that's in there lasting a long time. Eventually, electrolytic capacitors will let go, the acid in them will eat the boards, and you'll have some very expensive door stops. If you're going to keep the KY97A for a long time, send it to someone who knows what they're doing to have all of those capacitors replaced. This will cost in the high three-figure range. Not bad, but worth considering whether a newer com radio like a GTR 225 would be a better investment, especially since you can't get replacement plasma displays for those old King radios any more.

I concur with those who are telling you not to install a Garmin 430. Those are 21 years old now and are likely VERY close to being unsupportable should something go wrong. In addition, the installation cost for a GPS is quite large so it doesn't make sense to freshly install something that's that old and will need replacement (and thus another bunch of $$$ for installation) sooner rather than later. Put in something new that will last and be supported for a long time.

Luckily, Garmin has come out with some nice and relatively economical new gear: The GPS 175, GNC 355, and GNX 375. GPS-wise they're all pretty much the same, the GNC includes a com radio and the GNX includes an ADS-B in/out transponder. I think, since you want/need a GPS, a transponder, and a radio, your best bet would be to combine the GNX 375 with the GTR 225 to check all of those boxes with new gear at the best price.

Now, there's the issue of the nav radio and the other com. Do you ever expect to get instrument rated and/or use VOR navigation? If not, you may want to just do dual GTR 225s.

For the audio panel, Garmin has a few offerings but you'd be hard-pressed to find anything better than PS Engineering's line. If you're looking to stay on the economical side of things, you may want to just put in their PAR 200B, which is a combination audio panel and com radio, as your other radio.

And when you are installing your WAAS GPS, you will find you need to replace the CDI, too. (The CDI is always a "surprise" cost for some reason, but it is required for IFR.) The cost of the replacement CDI might start to tilt your thoughts toward putting in at least one G5 in the first go-round. Building an IFR panel is really hard to do piecemeal. One thing seems to lead to another.

That's for sure... But this isn't necessarily IFR, at least for now.

Wow Guys, Thanx for the great responses! I'll need time to look over your suggestions and research the equipment. However, at this point I'm not IFR certified and will be flying VFR for quite some time so not looking to "IFR cert" the plane. Just want to upgrade the 53 year instruments so even 20yr old technology would be great leap for me! With that said it would be foolish to pay good money for an old Garmin 430 if I can get something newer, better for just a few more $$. So if you have more suggestions on a modest VFR setup that I can keep under $12k I'd appreciate it. If really needed I could go a few grand more but just want to get my dash out of the stone age. :) As far as cross-country I'm still working, learning, building hours, & getting comfortable with small day trips. In the next year or two will be looking to go on some 1000 mile trips to visit family.

And that last bit is another thing that makes me think you might regret not equipping things with future IFR flight in mind - At least, not putting in something now that you'll want to tear out later when you decide to get instrument rated.

Long trips tend to mean weather at some point along the way, and unless you're flying strictly in mountainous/desert areas you're likely to find that eventually you get in a situation where you're stuck on the ground at BFE Podunk Municipal Airport on a day that'd be a very easily flyable one if you and your plane were instrument rated/capable. But, I'll come back to that.

Another thing you're likely to want after that first 1,000 mile trip is an autopilot... But more on that later.

Good info.
I fly out of KFFZ which is a class-D airspace so do need the ADSB. I originally thought a wing tip or tail ADSB would be the way to go but it was pointed out to me that if I go in dash I could also upgrade the transponder for not much more $$ so seemed a better choice? I'm old school and prefer analog needles to digital readouts. I appreciate the KISS (Keep it Simple Silly) philosophy and would rather glance at the gauge's needle position then having to stop and actually read numbers off a gauge (same thing we did back in my racing [pit crew] days). I will research the audio and see what I can find.

The only trouble with the SkyBeacon/TailBeacon is that you have to keep your existing transponder, so if that craps out you're kinda back to square one. It's a good solution for those that already had something like a Garmin GTX 327 with a lot of life left in it and no desire for traffic/weather on their panel (keeping it on the iPad only). It's not so good for someone with an ancient transponder that may quit next week.

I did purchase an iPad mini, Stratux, and Fore-flight so I'd have backup Nav and ADSB in. I feel much more comfortable now being able to detect other planes around me. I'm not really an Apple/Mac/iStuff fan but since Fore-flight seemed to capture most the market share decided to give it a try. Currently I struggle with the way the GPS tracks (probably a setting) and have to keep centering the plane in the view.

Tap the little "target" in the upper right corner of the screen. As long as that's blue, it will keep your plane centered. There's an option in the settings (I think it's "auto-center deactivate") that can keep it centered unless you hit the target again to "unlock" it, but I find that I'd rather the map respond when I touch to pan or pinch to zoom rather than having to manually deactivate auto-centering.

Other than that, why do you struggle with the way the GPS tracks? Is it not showing you in the correct position? I've heard many people have trouble with the GPS on the Stratux (Not the factory-built StratuS, but the homebuilt StratuX). You can tap any of the "instruments" in the "HUD" at the bottom and choose to put your GPS accuracy there so that you can at least figure out what's going on.

I also purchased the Synthetic Vision as a poor man's IFR if I ever got into a situation were VFR was lost. I know it's not a legal system but if it gets me down safely we can discuss that. hee hee hee But, I have not been able to use the synthetic vision as it keeps displaying upside down? I've looked for settings, rotated the iPad, etc... Just fuels my distaste for iStuff.

It's not getting your attitude from the iPad, that would be coming from the Stratux... So that's what you need to turn over. You may also need to hit the Calibrate button in the synthetic vision to tell it where straight and level is.

OK, now to the bottom line! If you're *absolutely* sure that you're NEVER going to become instrument rated, you're never going to want an autopilot, and you don't care that it might be harder to sell a plane that doesn't have an IFR-capable panel when you go to sell the plane, here's what I'd do:

1) Garmin GNX-375. This gives you a new transponder, ADS-B in and out, and a very nice color moving map GPS as well as passing traffic, weather, and attitude through to your iPad (so you can sell the Stratux). $7,995 retail.
2) PS Engineering PAR-200B. This gives you both an audio panel and a com radio. $3495 retail.
3) Garmin GTR-200. This is your #2 com radio. $2,095 retail.

This checks all your boxes, and gets all the old stuff out of your panel. Figure retail + 60% for installed cost and you're looking at almost $22K, but you'll never have to do another upgrade if you never get instrument rated and never want an autopilot.

Now, that said, I think after using your plane a bit you're going to find that you want to get an instrument rating and have an airplane so equipped. You'll probably also want a working two-axis autopilot. With that in mind, I'd do this now:

1) Garmin GNX-375 GPS+ ADS-B Out. ($7995)
2) PS Engineering PAR-200B to replace the Collins audio and the Narco nav/com. ($3495)

Using retail + 60%, that puts you a bit over $18K for now but gives you mostly new stuff and some nice capability for something that's in your extended budget but will last a good long time. Keep the KY-97 for the moment.

When your DG dies or needs overhaul, or when you decide to get the instrument rating, whichever comes first:

1) Replace the DG with a G5 HSI, which will both serve as the directional and course deviation indicators and let you get the GNX-375 installation certified for IFR ($2599 retail, though maybe >60% for install on this one)

When the KY-97 dies, or when you decide to get that instrument rating, whichever comes first:

1) Replace the KY-97 with a Garmin GNC 255 Nav/Com ($4495). This replaces your last old radio, gives you VOR and ILS capability when paired with the G5 HSI.

Really, the best plan would be to do those previous two together at the same time, but not required.

When you decide that you're sick of hand flying those 1,000-nm trips:

1) Garmin G5 AI ($2299)
2) Garmin GFC 500 autopilot with trim ($8995)

At the end of it all, you'll have a very nice capable traveling airplane, and being able to do a piece of this at a time will hopefully keep you from breaking the bank.
 
BTW, if you decide to stick with a separate audio panel and do something different with com radios, instead of the PS Engineering PAR200B (audio panel + com radio), you could go with the $1195 PS Engineering PMA6000B audio panel.
 
BTW, if you decide to stick with a separate audio panel and do something different with com radios, instead of the PS Engineering PAR200B (audio panel + com radio), you could go with the $1195 PS Engineering PMA6000B audio panel.

Thanx for taking the time for that great write-up Kent! I've printed it out and need to absorb it all. I do meet with an avionics guy tomorrow so hopefully will have a better idea on a direction. More info from my side;
1) I doubt very seriously I ever get my IFR rating
2) very close to retirement so wanted a plane to have fun with and stay current until we can start making longer trips.
3) Most my flying will be in the Southwest and VFR in the deserts and mountains.
4) I'm not planning on selling the plane anytime soon, when i do it'll probably be my last plane.
5) I have several other friends with planes and we do the $100 burger and even some light camping (KPAN)
6) When I'm more comfortable with the plane we'd like to take some 1,000 mile trips to see her kids up in Nebraska and my family in Texas.
7) From what I know so far it looks like I'll be a GPS kind of guy with occasional IFR tendencies (I Fly Roads) :)
8) And as you noticed I'm trying to learn to use the iPad w/Stratax for secondary Nav (Thanx for the hints)

I grew up an Air Force Bratt and owning a plane and learning to fly has always been a bucket list item for me. My vision was so bad (near sited) back in the day I knew I could never be a fighter pilot like my Dad so ventured into other careers. But I've always had my RC planes & skydiving for 20 years. I recently stopped skydiving and now looking for something a little more dangerous.. General Aviation :)
 
Thanx for taking the time for that great write-up Kent! I've printed it out and need to absorb it all. I do meet with an avionics guy tomorrow so hopefully will have a better idea on a direction. More info from my side;
1) I doubt very seriously I ever get my IFR rating
2) very close to retirement so wanted a plane to have fun with and stay current until we can start making longer trips.
3) Most my flying will be in the Southwest and VFR in the deserts and mountains.
4) I'm not planning on selling the plane anytime soon, when i do it'll probably be my last plane.
5) I have several other friends with planes and we do the $100 burger and even some light camping (KPAN)
6) When I'm more comfortable with the plane we'd like to take some 1,000 mile trips to see her kids up in Nebraska and my family in Texas.
7) From what I know so far it looks like I'll be a GPS kind of guy with occasional IFR tendencies (I Fly Roads) :)
8) And as you noticed I'm trying to learn to use the iPad w/Stratax for secondary Nav (Thanx for the hints)

I grew up an Air Force Bratt and owning a plane and learning to fly has always been a bucket list item for me. My vision was so bad (near sited) back in the day I knew I could never be a fighter pilot like my Dad so ventured into other careers. But I've always had my RC planes & skydiving for 20 years. I recently stopped skydiving and now looking for something a little more dangerous.. General Aviation :)

If I was in your shoes, I'd get a nice PS Engineering audio panel and a GNX 375 and maybe some flavor of a newer com radio and be done. Maybe a EFB tablet like an iPad mini 4 or 5 or something. If you have a nice sized smartphone already you may not want another tablet.

If you wanted IFR down the road then add an external CDI to the GNX or something fancier like a G5 HSI system.The shop installing the GNX could wire it for a GI106A/B or something while they are in there now. Then it would be like an hour or two to install the CDI if/when you decide to add one later. You can buy these for $1k or so second hand, new CDIs are kinda spendy around $2800. If its already wired then installation is basically connecting a connector, mounting, function test and paperwork.
 
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BTW, if you decide to stick with a separate audio panel and do something different with com radios, instead of the PS Engineering PAR200B (audio panel + com radio), you could go with the $1195 PS Engineering PMA6000B audio panel.

I have always wanted to try a PAR200B but with how compact all the newer gear is none of the airplanes I've worked have the real-estate issues requiring one. Maybe if my iCom died.

The PAR200B seems like a great match with the GNX375. This would be kick ass is a Cessna 150, or any airplane really. Might be a little out of budget tho. Could do PAR200B leave space below it for a GPS 175, and stick a Garmin Aera 660 in it

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- An indicator for the GPS/VOR
View attachment 87063
As noted by Brian, the GNX 375 will require a new indicator. (Edit: WeirdJim is right-- that's really only necessary for navigating under IFR by GPS) You might consider a G5 in HSI configuration because it's not really going to be that much more than available alternate indicators that will work with it. You might also add a dual G5 setup if you have the room in the budget. I don't think the G5 would be able to serve as an indicator for your existing NAV radio. But you can keep your old indicator for the existing NAV radio. We just put in a GNX 375 and dual G5s for $15,500. It comes back from the shop this week.
 
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I'm old school and prefer analog needles to digital readouts. I appreciate the KISS (Keep it Simple Silly) philosophy and would rather glance at the gauge's needle position then having to stop and actually read numbers off a gauge (same thing we did back in my racing [pit crew] days). View attachment 87070 View attachment 87070 View attachment 87071 View attachment 87072

I'm right there with you. I learned on a 6 pack, and did my IFR on the six pack with no GPS. I prefer the presentation of the six pack. But our AI was showing signs of giving it up, and it just made more sense to replace it with a solid state G5 given that we were adding the GNX375 for GPS and ADSB. Coupled with the GNX 375, and the other G5 HSI, it just really adds a lot of redundancy and capability. Putting all of the information on one screen really helps ease your scan. Of course, having the additional AHRS and assisting your scan is obviously much more critical for IFR than VFR.
 
You said a CDI is not required for IFR. In what situation is that true? A CDI is certainly required for VOR/LOC/ILS in the IFR system.

I think Jim was saying that he could fly IFR navigating with the nav radio and the existing CDI. You are correct that if you want to navigate under IFR using the GPS to navigate it would require a new indicator.
 
More info from my side;
1) I doubt very seriously I ever get my IFR rating
3) Most my flying will be in the Southwest and VFR in the deserts and mountains.
5) I have several other friends with planes and we do the $100 burger and even some light camping (KPAN)
7) From what I know so far it looks like I'll be a GPS kind of guy with occasional IFR tendencies (I Fly Roads) :)

OK, your mission - Mainly, being retired and flying in some pretty dry areas - lends itself well to being able to stay VFR.

2) very close to retirement so wanted a plane to have fun with and stay current until we can start making longer trips.
4) I'm not planning on selling the plane anytime soon, when i do it'll probably be my last plane.
6) When I'm more comfortable with the plane we'd like to take some 1,000 mile trips to see her kids up in Nebraska and my family in Texas.

So at the end of #4... It sounds like this might not be your last plane, that your next plane would be the last one?

I'd do the GNX 375 and the PAR 200B and fly the hell out of it. Also the GTR 225, most likely - It'd be maybe $1K cheaper to refurb and keep the KY 97, but if the display goes you'll need to find another KY97 (and likely get it refurbed) to put in, or just put in the GTR 225 at that point. If either of those things happens, you'd have been better off just putting in the GTR 225 to start with.
 
The only trouble with the SkyBeacon/TailBeacon is that you have to keep your existing transponder, so if that craps out you're kinda back to square one. It's a good solution for those that already had something like a Garmin GTX 327 with a lot of life left in it and no desire for traffic/weather on their panel (keeping it on the iPad only). It's not so good for someone with an ancient transponder that may quit next week.
Apparently uAvionix has a mitigation plan for that situation:
https://uavionix.com/uavionix-files-application-for-tailbeaconx-tso/
"An upgrade program for existing skyBeacon/tailBeacon TSO owners is in the works with details to follow."
 
Apparently uAvionix has a mitigation plan for that situation:
https://uavionix.com/uavionix-files-application-for-tailbeaconx-tso/
"An upgrade program for existing skyBeacon/tailBeacon TSO owners is in the works with details to follow."

Interesting. It's not at all clear how one would control it, though! No control head is pictured.

Kinda moot for me, since I can't use either SkyBeacon or TailBeacon. My wingtip nav lights are mounted inside a clear tip without enough clearance for the antenna, and I have dual "tail" nav lights at the aft end of each wingtip that are also mounted such that the TailBeacon wouldn't work.

I wonder how much it'll cost, and whether it's worth the OP considering as an option if he were to get a TailBeacon. There'll certainly be a window of time where the transponder version won't yet be certified, though, and he'd be stuck if the ancient transponder died. I'd still go with my original plan.
 
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