Buying a plane with a broken engine

atbroome

atbroome

Pre-takeoff checklist
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ATB
As a first time plane buyer, I am pretty sure this is a non-starter for me, but I thought I would ask anyway for the benefit of others: What are the risks/considerations buying a plane that needs engine work?

Let's assume it's in a state that may or may not be okay for a flight above the airport to see how it generally flies, but not something you would want to fly cross country home. Let's also say its a Continental 0-470 with "cam/lifter issues".
 
It would be a non-starter for me, too. Hypothetically if I were to buy this plane I would plan on a full engine overhaul immediately, and adjust the purchase price accordingly.

Tim
 
timrb said:
It would be a non-starter for me, too. Hypothetically if I were to buy this plane I would plan on a full engine overhaul immediately, and adjust the purchase price accordingly.

Tim
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Thats what I was thinking. But then you have to get an overhaul for an engine for a plane you now own that is several states away. And then fly a newly overhauled engine home.
 
I don't think I'd buy it if I couldn't fly it home first.
 
Plan on the cost of an overhaul in the purchase price.
 
Though many of us have bought planes with run-out or inoperable engines, you really need to know what you're doing and what to look out for in the purchase. Like others have suggested, not a good idea for a first time buyer.
 
It depends. If an overhaul/new engine was factored into the price, could be just fine. It’s nice to start with a zero time engine, you control care going forward. Look at the rest of the plane, then new engine.

People buy planes apart on a trailer all the time, the PRICE is what matters.
 
I actually prefer buying runout motors because then I control the quality of the overhaul, and won't get some cheapo "0 smoh" job. It's assumed that the price reflects the need for an immediate OH.

This is not something I'd suggest to a first time buyer without some experienced guidance. There are enough pitfalls in "buying the first airplane" without diving feet first into "managing your first major repair vendor(s)".
 
What everyone else said. Only thing I would add is what's the value of the plane with a mid-time engine? If there are examples of the same airframe selling at 30K with 1000 hours SMOH, it can't be worth it as they'd have to basically give it to you. If on the other hand it's a 100k airframe with a mid time engine and you can pick it up for 60k, might be interesting...
 
Hang 4 said:
What everyone else said. Only thing I would add is what's the value of the plane with a mid-time engine? If there are examples of the same airframe selling at 30K with 1000 hours SMOH, it can't be worth it as they'd have to basically give it to you. If on the other hand it's a 100k airframe with a mid time engine and you can pick it up for 60k, might be interesting...
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It's a '68 182 listed for $65k in apparently otherwise good shape. With a prop (but not a crank) that supports the PPonk/XP470 upgrade.
 
last year the 0-470 overhaul was $55k. the ad says it needs cam and lifters. that means a complete overhaul.
most aircraft are not worth a new engine.
 
Not worth it, maybe $10k with no other problems, there will be more problems.
 
PaulS said:
Not worth it, maybe $10k with no other problems, there will be more problems.
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Get real any 182 is more than $10K. salvage yards/insurance companies are asking $50K for wrecks.
 
Tom-D said:
Get real any 182 is more than $10K. salvage yards/insurance companies are asking $50K for wrecks.
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Pffft, let the salvage yard have it then. Having to pay someone to do all the work that needs to be done well get him killed on this. You just said $55k for the engine alone. Plus $65k for the asking price, you are into this for $120k and the engine isn't installed yet, plus all the accessories and the other non engine hidden things.

He can get a newer model with a running engine for close to the same money, I wouldn't do it unless it was really a deal. $65 k for a 1968 airplane, not thanks.
 
As usual, we have insufficient information with uninformed opinions. WHAT sort of cam problems, WHAT sort of lifter problems? A rounded lobe? Teardown for sure. A bent pushrod? Nickels and dimes. But $65k for that airplane WITH a decent engine is about $20k high.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
As usual, we have insufficient information with uninformed opinions. WHAT sort of cam problems, WHAT sort of lifter problems? A rounded lobe? Teardown for sure. A bent pushrod? Nickels and dimes. But $65k for that airplane WITH a decent engine is about $20k high.

Jim
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Yeah, good point, says it needs cam and lifters, 1100 sfrm. Maybe the "needs new engine comment" is not right, still seems expensive for a 52 year old airplane with engine problems.
 
Have I been looking at a different 182 market than everyone else? I’ll happily buy a $65k-$85k 182 with good paint, decent interior, GPS, adsb, and a functional engine. Seriously, please! :D
 
PaulS said:
Pffft, let the salvage yard have it then. Having to pay someone to do all the work that needs to be done well get him killed on this. You just said $55k for the engine alone. Plus $65k for the asking price, you are into this for $120k and the engine isn't installed yet, plus all the accessories and the other non engine hidden things.

He can get a newer model with a running engine for close to the same money, I wouldn't do it unless it was really a deal. $65 k for a 1968 airplane, not thanks.
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I'm also looking for a new aircraft that's free too.
 
schmookeeg said:
I like your bargaining tactic of doubling the engine overhaul cost ( https://www.coronaengines.com/Engine-Overhaul ) but I'm not sure that seller would go for it. :D
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You can get an economy engine if you wish.
My customer's firewall wall forward cost Pennys less that $60K

"I'm not sure that seller would go for it".
Most won't, that is what keeps this page alive and T-A-P full
 
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So what would be the R&R costs? New motor mounts, getting the engine mount cleaned inspected, painted and/powder coated, cleaning up the firewall, new hoses, etc. and labor for removal and installation. What does that all add up to on a 182? $10K? At least with the engine out, you would get a good look at the firewall to see whether it has any wrinkles from a hard landing.
 
Jumpmaster said:
So what would be the R&R costs? New motor mounts, getting the engine mount cleaned inspected, painted and/powder coated, cleaning up the firewall, new hoses, etc. and labor for removal and installation. What does that all add up to on a 182? $10K? At least with the engine out, you would get a good look at the firewall to see whether it has any wrinkles from a hard landing.
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What do you want? Firewall forward all new? carb, mufflers, baffles, scat? I charge $50. per hour, how much are you will to do?
 
We were right at $12k for all the firewall forward stuff. All that stuff adds up fast if you do it right. Then add $32k for the engine itself.

Glad I have partners.
 
how much really needs replacing. Exhaust parts are really expensive.
 
Tom-D said:
how long ago? which engine?
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1.5 yrs ago. Lyco IO-360 A3B6, we exchanged our old A3B6D on a factory overhaul.

Reasons for going with Lyco was moving from flat to roller tappets , and ditching the Siamese mags for two real mags. Also, our existing engine was already on its third run, so not as much of a big deal to exchange. No matter who we went with we wanted new Lyco factory cylinders.
 
Tom-D said:
I'm also looking for a new aircraft that's free too.
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Good for you, I'm not looking for anything right now. Seems to be a lot 182s with run out engines on the market, and asking price ain't selling price, especially now, just saying.
 
Kinda neat for same owner. Basically flew 130 average hours a year since it rolled off the line. Someone who owns a plane that long and it looks that decent took pretty good care of it. That plane with a mid time engine is worth about what their asking. I don’t think there is a discount on engine repairs seriously factored in though. Probably priced high for some deductions. I’d expect that to sell for around 50.
 
What could you buy for 120? Which airplane would you rather have?
 
I’d buy a runout engine/airplane for a good price and immediately upgrade the engine. 182, maybe with the IO520(Texas Skyways). Look for what the going rate is for 182s with the conversion already done, and discount your offer accordingly. Of course, if you want the no hassle “turn key” deal, this is not that.

And insurance companies put salvage up for bid and take the highest bid, not ask for a specific price, because they could screw themselves out of the highest market potential.
 
Tom-D said:
You can get an economy engine if you wish.
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Have you had an engine built by Ben at Corona? I'm on my seventh from him, he's all I'll ever use. His O-300-D ran to 4400 hours for us before making metal. I'm on my second 550 that he's built for me.

If you haven't used him, I'd prefer you not publicly slander him ignorantly, out of professional courtesy if not manners. If you have and have a complaint, I'd be interested in the story here or in PM at your option.
 
schmookeeg said:
Have you had an engine built by Ben at Corona? I'm on my seventh from him, he's all I'll ever use. His O-300-D ran to 4400 hours for us before making metal. I'm on my second 550 that he's built for me.

If you haven't used him, I'd prefer you not publicly slander him ignorantly, out of professional courtesy if not manners. If you have and have a complaint, I'd be interested in the story here or in PM at your option.
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It's a rare occasion that a quality engine is cheap.
And NO I do not know all engine Shops.
My Customers 0-300-D that is running at 6600, but the data tag is still in place.
It is all how you document ? My customer tear the engine down every year and replaces the warn parts.
IMHO any that runs a 4400 out of a 0-300 isn't prudent.
 
schmookeeg said:
Have you had an engine built by Ben at Corona? I'm on my seventh from him, he's all I'll ever use.
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If you have never tried anyone else. How do you know your getting the best deal?
Just curious ?
 
Lots of talk and conjecture, but no real data about what's wrong with the engine. If I were OP, I'd want to see a report or estimate that leads to the conclusion that the engine needs cam and lifter work. I'm not doubting that it needs work, but without knowing what kind of work, we don't know if the engine is capable of an IRAN, or needs overhaul.
 
One of the best firearms deals I got was a Browning BAR 243 with a broken stock, 1/2 price. It was an easy fix.
 
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