STC Availability

NealRomeoGolf

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Probably a dumb question. What makes an STC “available”? The willingness of the holder to sell it to you? If an STC is listed on the FAA site as Reissued 1998, does that mean anything about availability? So I can call this guy up and he can tell me to take a flying leap because he doesn’t want to sell it? And what would “it” be? The engineering drawings to make it happen I assume? Does an STC holder have liability in the game? Is that why some stop selling them?

I may ask more dumb questions after your replies. My apologies in advance.
 
Issued/Reissued doesn't mean the holder is still actively selling/providing the STC, or even that the business still exists.

You basically need to contact the STC holder to find out if it's available
 
What makes an STC “available”? The willingness of the holder to sell it to you?
"Available" in what context? The holder has sole discretion to give you permission or not to give you permission to use the STC. Whether money is exchanged is separate as there are some STCs that are given out free.
If an STC is listed on the FAA site as Reissued 1998, does that mean anything about availability?
Usually when you see "reissued" it implies the STC has been sold/transferred to another entity and the STC document is "reissued" to that new entity.
he can tell me to take a flying leap because he doesn’t want to sell it?
Yes.
And what would “it” be? The engineering drawings to make it happen I assume?
Depends. It can be as little as the STC document with a permission letter to a complete data/drawing package with ICAs. If parts are required for the STC then some sort of kit will accompany the STC data/drawing package.
Does an STC holder have liability in the game? Is that why some stop selling them?
Define liability. As to why some stop offering STCs, it can be a wide range of reasons, but it's usually financial ones or the market for it has reduced or gone away. Or in some cases, the guy died and the STC is part of an undivided estate.:rolleyes:
 
When you are issued an STC, the rites for that info is your property. no one can use that info.

that protects individuals in case of liability issues.
 
" Or in some cases, the guy died and the STC is part of an undivided estate.:rolleyes:
Then FAA has STC placed in the common domain, then anyone can use the info.
 
Then FAA has STC placed in the common domain, then anyone can use the info.

You sure? I would love to see Madras droop tips come back to market with any A&P able to do them up.
 
Then FAA has STC placed in the common domain, then anyone can use the info.
Not quite. The only time when an STC goes into FAA receivership or the public domain is when it is surrendered or there is no ownership lineage. As long as the STC is listed in the previous holders estate it's not considered property of the FAA or public domain. If in doubt call the ACO in Seattle. ;)
 
You sure? I would love to see Madras droop tips come back to market with any A&P able to do them up.
It requires much research to know which STC the FAA would allow anyone to use a STC that is in public domain.
I'm not a lawyer, it will require one.
It would be easier to buy the STC.
 
Define liability. As to why some stop offering STCs, it can be a wide range of reasons, but it's usually financial ones or the market for it has reduced or gone away. Or in some cases, the guy died and the STC is part of an undivided estate.:rolleyes:

What is a financial reason for quitting? Is there a cost to keep up an STC?
 
What is a financial reason for quitting? Is there a cost to keep up an STC?

Many of the STCs I've run across seem to be where the company is just a guy making the parts in his garage. Maybe it gets to the point where he's only selling one a year, and it just doesn't make sense for him to keep the machinery involved, or he wants to move and doesn't want to move the machinery, or it breaks and is not worth it to fix for the one sale a year.

Actually, all of those would apply even if it was a big company making the STCs too.
 
I would love to see Madras droop tips come back to market with any A&P able to do them up.
If you have the STC number or holder's name on the tips look up its current status here:https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSTC.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

If it still shows issued/reissued/amended, click on the link to find the holder's contact info. Send them a letter and call. Document these attempts. If the holder tells you no joy then you're basically out of luck unless you already have them installed and need info like an ICA. In this case the FAA will get involved as there are regulatory requirements the holder must abide by.

If the STC status is "surrendered" or doesn't appear anywhere, or if the holder is no longer reachable after your attempts to contact from above, then the next step is to contact the issuing FAA ACO. The ACO contact info will be listed on the STC page, or if there is no listing you can determine which ACO it was by the STC number. In cases where you have no STC number and/or don't know the holders name then it takes some hard core research/detective work which usually doesn't pan out.

FYI: Technically a surrendered STC doesn't enter the "public domain" per se as it does not fall under any copyright/patent/IP laws. But the STC does become property of the ACO, i.e, a public entity. The ACO then manages the STC as necessary, i.e., issue permission letters, but this can depend on the type of STC. As to whether "any A&P" would be able to install the tips would depend on if it falls under a major or minor alteration. I doubt changing wing tips is a minor. Are these the same as the old Deemer Super Tips?
 
"Ace" Demers. There has NEVER been another aviation product that made more claims than "Ace" and his miracle wingtips. Lighter, higher, lower, faster, slower, economic,..............he even got an award for them. He was a master salesman. The best!!
 
What is a financial reason for quitting? Is there a cost to keep up an STC?
It depends on the STC. For a "paper only" type STC there are still record-keeping requirements and a few other items that the holder must follow. If it was a popular STC then it could get into the 100s or even 1000s of documents to track and maintain. The holder is also required to inform the FAA if there are any reported problems with the STC install up to and including issues that may lead to an AD. If an aircraft has an accident, there is also a requirement to assist the NTSB with documentation, etc.

On more complex STCs, especially if there are parts required, there are a number of overhead costs. Considering an STC is only a design approval and not a production approval, if the holder wants to produce those parts in-house then they must get a PC/PMA/TSO approval to manufacture the parts, or contract with a 3rd party who already has such approvals. Regardless, its usually the holder financed his STC endeavor and the market didn't pan out and the bill comes due. Supplying a STC is no different than any other business ops.

But not all STCs were created equal as old STCs were much simpler than those after 1970-80s so the reasons to stop supplying the STC vary rather widely.
 
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If ONLY Ace would have inverted those tips to point upward.... Could have licensed them to Boeing for a fortune. :7)
 
What is a financial reason for quitting? Is there a cost to keep up an STC?

Just like a TC holder, the holder of the STC may have certain support obligations. Especially if the FAA determines there is something unsafe about it, and they issue an AD against it. The users of the STC will be looking for a SB or some remedy from the STC holder.

I heard a story, possibly in the old format POA, where someone developed an STC to install a Garmin product on GA airplanes. Unfortunately, the STC holder had no business arrangement with Garmin. There was a problem, the FAA supposedly issued an AD, but Garmin wouldn't give the holders of his STC the software fix for free. The guys customers sued him, his little operation filed for bankruptcy.
 
Standards for obtaining STC approval have evolved over the years. Older STCs sometimes look very thin.
 
An STC is only part of the marketing picture. If a guy gets an STC he can produce and install the part but in order to sell the part for others to install he needs a PMA. That's not an easy task according to the guys I know who've done it.
 
An STC is only part of the marketing picture. If a guy gets an STC he can produce and install the part but in order to sell the part for others to install he needs a PMA. That's not an easy task according to the guys I know who've done it.
One way I've seen it done is for the STC holder to provide a PMA assist letter and the data to someone who already has PMA approval (meaning they have a relationship with the a local FAA MIDO), so they can become a manufacturer of that part/kit too. Someone can probably become a approved aircraft parts manufacturer from scratch, but it helps if they already have approved processes and procedures and in place. You see it done with modification kits.
 
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