Pakistan International Airlines crash

X3 Skier said:
Another confirmation of my absolute and final decision of long ago to NEVER fly a third world airline.
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Agree, provided you had the option. Glad I don't have to deal with that issue any longer. And you can add a national military running commercial ops to make money to that list as well.;)
 
Wait, I thought we were never supposed to disparage pilots from third world countries... that their skill and professionalism was equal to any.

I guess that's only if they fly Boeings....
 
Larry in TN said:
Of course. You won't be able to slow down. You'll be high and fast and unable to fix it. You'll also get the audible gear warning when flaps are extended to a landing flap setting.


I only heard it on the single transmission. You'll need to find an Airbus pilot to give you the specifics.
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are you saying fifi cant slow down without the rubber speed brakes? :)
 
X3 Skier said:
Another confirmation of my absolute and final decision of long ago to NEVER fly a third world airline.

Cheers
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You mean like any airline from the Third World countries of Sweden, Finland, Ireland or Switzerland?

You'd rather fly on First World airlines like from Angola, Namibia, Zimbabwe or Malawi?

I know, I know... the definition of "third world" has morphed over the years to mean poor countries, but it the traditional sense it only had to do with who the country was aligned with in the Cold War. First World: Western Bloc, Second World: Soviet Bloc, Third World: Neutral.

Map of the "Worlds."
First World: Blue
Second World: Red
Third World: Green

Cold_War_alliances_mid-1975.jpg
 
Rein Hart said:
Gross negligence. Gear warning audible on atc audio before belly landing.
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Do you fly an Airbus? Pretty sure that is the Master Warning, not a "gear warning".
 
Doc Holliday said:
Here's how their "stabilized approach" looked.............



20200522-0-G-1.jpg
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I was looking at that and that seems getting down pretty fast- so who is that on?? ATC not getting them down or on crew. Ultimately falls on crew for not being ready to land or recognizing they need more time and ask for it. Wonder if the rush job to get down means checklist didn’t come out like normal. Looking back further may lead to some more clues as to how all the Swiss cheese holes lined up here
 
Sluggo63 said:
You mean like any airline from the Third World countries of Sweden, Finland, Ireland or Switzerland?

You'd rather fly on First World airlines like from Angola, Namibia, Zimbabwe or Malawi?

I know, I know... the definition of "third world" has morphed over the years to mean poor countries, but it the traditional sense it only had to do with who the country was aligned with in the Cold War. First World: Western Bloc, Second World: Soviet Bloc, Third World: Neutral.

Map of the "Worlds."
First World: Blue
Second World: Red
Third World: Green

View attachment 86119
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I would not call Sweden or Finland 3rd world....:nono:
 
I have almost zero to add here, but I will say being on speed by the desired reference points (1000 or 500 depending) would be nearly impossible without the gear in the Bus.
 
dmspilot said:
Do you fly an Airbus? Pretty sure that is the Master Warning, not a "gear warning".
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Nope. Is a master warning alarm cause for go-around or proceed with landing?
 
On the biancolirio YouTube channel he confirmed it was a gear warning. Showed a few training videos of an airbus to verify it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Rein Hart said:
Nope. Is a master warning alarm cause for go-around or proceed with landing?
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So you were just guessing what that persistent noise was, and don't have any idea what the master warning alarm means? Perhaps you should refrain from commenting if you don't know anything at all about those big airplanes with jet engines.
 
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Peter Anderson said:
On the biancolirio YouTube channel he confirmed it was a gear warning. Showed a few training videos of an airbus to verify it.
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Based on this sound?


By "confirmed" did you mean "conjectured"?
 
Rein Hart said:
Nope. Is a master warning alarm cause for go-around or proceed with landing?
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Would depend on the situation. Typically, proper prioritization would dictate the warning be identified and cancelled before making routine communications to ATC.
 
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Peter Anderson said:
Go to the 4:30 mark in the video
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I see the point has escaped you. The landing gear not extended is one of probably hundreds of things that can set off the master warning. It is not a "landing gear warning horn" like in a light aircraft.
 
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The scrapes on the tarmac along with the damage to the underside of the engines doesn’t leave much doubt his gear wasn’t down regardless of what caused the alarm to sound.
 
Good info in this update on the "scrape and go" ...

 
dmspilot said:
I see the point has escaped you. The landing gear not extended is one of probably hundreds of things that can set off the master warning. It is not a "landing gear warning horn" like in a light aircraft.
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And I can see from your posts that you tend to be quite condescending. Too bad. As it seems you have good knowledge of airline transport ops and could be an awesome and welcoming resource to a conversation like this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
3393RP said:
So you were just guessing what that persistent noise was, and don't have any idea what the master warning alarm means? Perhaps you should refrain from commenting if you don't know anything at all about those big airplanes with jet engines.
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So one of the master warning alarm reasons could be gear not extended. It’s known the gear was not extended. Doesn’t take an airbus pilot to see what led to belly landing. ;)
 
dmspilot said:
Based on this sound?


By "confirmed" did you mean "conjectured"?
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Juan Brown's videos are nothing more than a compilation of information available on public media and his opinions of their significance.

While I appreciate the labor the videos represent, in spite of the fact he's a former airline pilot, he doesn't provide much more insight than what most well informed pilots can gather on their own.
 
3393RP said:
While I appreciate the labor the videos represent, in spite of the fact he's a former airline pilot, he doesn't provide much more insight than what most well informed pilots can gather on their own.
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Very true, but saves me a lot of web surfing.
 
The Continental DC-9 was notable also do to the rather irrelevant cockpit discussions during the approach. They failed to notice the flaps were also not extended, they ignored the gear warning horn. The first officer called out several indications that the flaps were not out and the aircraft was in an unexpected configuration (too fast). He suggested going around, the captain told him to stay on it. He finally asked teh captain if he wanted to land it, and the captain did, gear up and fast.
 
flyingron said:
The Continental DC-9 was notable also do to the rather irrelevant cockpit discussions during the approach. They failed to notice the flaps were also not extended, they ignored the gear warning horn. The first officer called out several indications that the flaps were not out and the aircraft was in an unexpected configuration (too fast). He suggested going around, the captain told him to stay on it. He finally asked teh captain if he wanted to land it, and the captain did, gear up and fast.
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That was the flight DAL 1141 was chatting about right before they started their unintentional no flaps/slats takeoff, correct?
 
This chart is chilling for me.

In the only close call to a gear up landing I have ever had...I was kept up to 6000MSL until the edge of the Class C airspace. I has to lose 5800 feet in 10 miles and I wrangled the plane (PA46) to do just that. The PA 46 airframe is pretty slippery.

I missed clue after clue the plane gave me. I missed tons of routine checklist items and ended up on short final 200 AGL at 120ktas bewildered. The controller called my go around and I went around...

I'd bet my flight profile looked very similar to this one...

The controller was brand new to the tower but was an ATP...the FAA gave him major well deserved props for saving my bacon. He and I met a few times...had some very deep discussions about the while incident and both learned TONS in those discussions.


Doc Holliday said:
Here's how their "stabilized approach" looked.............



20200522-0-G-1.jpg
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35 AoA said:
That was the flight DAL 1141 was chatting about right before they started their unintentional no flaps/slats takeoff, correct?
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Different incident. My description of the Continental 1943 is as I stated.
 
35 AoA said:
That was the flight DAL 1141 was chatting about right before they started their unintentional no flaps/slats takeoff, correct?
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They were talking about Continental 1713, according to Wikipedia.

Nauga,
who read the question
 
flyingron said:
No, flight 1943, the gear up landing in Houston.
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Yes, the crew of DAL 1141, the flight @35 AoA asked about, was talking about Continental 1713 shortly before crashing during takeoff.

Nauga,
threaded
 
Kritchlow said:
I have almost zero to add here, but I will say being on speed by the desired reference points (1000 or 500 depending) would be nearly impossible without the gear in the Bus.
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I don't remember, are you on the bus now, or flew it at another time?

might be able to get a 319 to do it, but a 321 never. can barely get that thing slow down period. its a real pain coming in to LAX or SFO
 
unsafervguy said:
I don't remember, are you on the bus now, or flew it at another time?

might be able to get a 319 to do it, but a 321 never. can barely get that thing slow down period. its a real pain coming in to LAX or SFO
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Yes... on the Bus. And it just became more difficult to slow....
 
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