Landing at a Bravo in a light sport

Salty

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Salty
Ok, so landing at Tampa International in my Mooney turned out to be anti-climactic, so I decided to try it in a Cessna 162. It was definitely more exciting, but only for me. The controllers couldn't have cared less either way. They also neglected to clear me into the Bravo. I stayed under the shelf until they cleared me for landing (I was still outside the surface area). At that point I asked if I was cleared in and they finally gave me the explicit clearance. I kept it going as fast as I could, but they didn't even ask me to keep my speed up. Had me back taxi on the runway for crying out loud....

I'm linking two versions, the first is my edit, and the second is full 360 that you can pan and zoom yourself if you prefer.


 
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Why? Giant long and wide runways are hardly a challenge & there was the chance that you would cost someone more in jet fuel than your 162 is worth. I have over 130 airports in my logbook and IIRC the only Bravo was Montreal Trudeau where I had a legitimate need to use the airport. I promise you that a 100 meter grass strip is more of a challenge than a two-mile runway that is a couple of hundred feet wide.
 
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Why? Giant long and wide runways are hardly a challenge & there was the chance that you wold cost someone more in jet fuel than your 162 is worth. I have over 130 airports in my logbook and IIRC the only Bravo was Montreal Trudeau where I had a legitimate need to use the airport. I promise you that a 100 meter grass strip is more of a challenge than a two-mile runway that is a couple of hundred feet wide.
Interesting take on it. Maybe I should just off myself now so I don’t get in anyone else’s way. Lol
 
To each they’re own. I like all airports.
 
Are you sure you didn't need the Displaced Threshold section for the takeoff:D?

Cheers
 
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Honestly that’s the most exciting part of the whole experience. Haha!

That is what got me into airplanes to start with, as a little kid - taxiing and ramp boarding, looking at all the pretty planes LOL.
 
Flying by downtown and right next to the stadium was pretty cool. Just being able to fly in the one area you never get a chance to is interesting in itself.
 
Flying by downtown and right next to the stadium was pretty cool. Just being able to fly in the one area you never get a chance to is interesting in itself.
Yup. You can do that without getting in anyone's way, though. Just ask for a Bravo clearance and tell them what you want to do. I have taken several guests over the top of our local Bravo airport. I usually get assigned about 3,000AGL and a vector that takes me over the top perpendicular to the landing traffic. We then go two or three miles further, make a U-turn, and fly back the way we came. It's really fun to take someone new to light airplanes on that ride. Or sometimes I'll ask for a Bravo clearance to avoid going all the way around. As long as I'm not asking to tangle with inbound or outbound traffic I'll get the clearance fairly routinely.
 
Yup. You can do that without getting in anyone's way, though. Just ask for a Bravo clearance and tell them what you want to do. I have taken several guests over the top of our local Bravo airport. I usually get assigned about 3,000AGL and a vector that takes me over the top perpendicular to the landing traffic. We then go two or three miles further, make a U-turn, and fly back the way we came. It's really fun to take someone new to light airplanes on that ride. Or sometimes I'll ask for a Bravo clearance to avoid going all the way around. As long as I'm not asking to tangle with inbound or outbound traffic I'll get the clearance fairly routinely.
I've flown under the Tampa Bravo for 4 years and have never been allowed into the Bravo for a transition. They are notoriously stingy about it. They always make you go around.

There is one published transition that I've never tried because it's not one that is useful to me, but even then, flying over at 3000 is nothing like the experience of doing it at 1000.
 
Why? Giant long and wide runways are hardly a challenge & there was the chance that you would cost someone more in jet fuel than your 162 is worth. I have over 130 airports in my logbook and IIRC the only Bravo was Montreal Trudeau where I had a legitimate need to use the airport. I promise you that a 100 meter grass strip is more of a challenge than a two-mile runway that is a couple of hundred feet wide.

I agree that landing at Bravo airports, especially now, isn't all that much of a challenge but a challenge and fun are not always mutually inclusive. I can have fun without it being challenging and I can have challenging without it being fun.

I mean the FAA had to implement a TFR over Chicago-Midway (KMDW) because they had to shutdown the tower due to staffing cutback for COVID and after doing so, the local pilots decided to come out and play and were doing touch-n-goes because they could and it was fun. I'm sure it was a blast. I'm a little disappointed in their judgement that saw the airport closed for everyone except air-carriers and would have preferred if they had excercised some more discretion so that other pilots could get some playtime in too but I understand the want to do it and its not really clear if it was just the sheer number of pilots flying in or a couple of bad actors that thought doing closed patterns was a good idea so I cant begrudge them too much

For that matter, why fly into the grass strip or fly anywhere really? Not all of our flights our purpose/mission driven or intended for a "challenge." Heck, most of my flights lately have just been for the fun of flying around. I dont really go anywhere, just turn circles in the sky just for the thrill and pleasure/enjoyment that comes with flying. I'd absolutely fly into more Bravo airports for the thrill and enjoyment of playing where the big boys live. Its like touring Wrigley Field or Fenway Park or any stadium and getting to go on the field or going behind the scenes at Disney World, you're doing something that not everyone can say they've done (and that starts at takeoff with flying a plane).

I mean after seeing a couple posts recently on here and youtube, I might try to do all 3 Bravo's in Florida before things open back up too much because its fun.

As to getting in someone's way? Well I dont live my life worrying about who's way I might be getting in, I remain respectful but I have just as much right to be where I am as the next person, worrying about getting in their way just puts me at the disadvantage and implicitly allows them to get in my way. That being said, I dont think that was really a consideration here and its probably rather unlikely that he was in any one's way.... Consider that United is only operating 9 flights per day out of Newark/EWR their 3rd largest hub and primary hub for the east coast and europe; I mean someone just recently did a video of low approaches to all 3 NYC airports of EWR, LGA and JFK in succession in one flight and New York approach laughed but barely even blinked at authorizing the request and NYC is some of the stingiest airspace I've encountered when it comes to providing services/clearances, especially if those services/requests put you in conflict with traffic to/from their main airports.

And if that's not enough for you, not only is ATC permitting approaches and landings across the country to airports that are traditionally difficult to get into if you're flying GA, it was completely doable in a light sport without ATC asking once for you to keep your speed up, enough said.


Are you sure you didn't need the Displaced Threshold section for the takeoff:D?

Cheers

I flew into KPHL last summer to pick someone up. It wasn't one of their really long runways (9/27 L&R at 9500 and 12000ft) but you could hear the chuckle in the ground controller's voice when he asked if I, in my piper arrow, could accept an intersection take off. I almost joked back that if he wanted to clear me to take off, land and take off again, I could probably take off, climb to 100 ft and still at least get a touch and go in with the space remaining, if not a stop and go... I didn't though, just chuckled back and said "yeah I think we can manage that."
 
Well, @apr911, I'm not going to deal with all of that but a few points:

I'll concede your point that, if in the current environment, the Bravo airports are not busy then landing at one "for fun" is probably OK.

Re fun, I never said I was against fun. But we can have fun without being rude.

Re your "rights," that is a childish argument. There are lots of things that we have a "right" to do that we should not do. "Getting in someone's way" might involve delaying a hundred or more people and wasting hundreds of pounds of jet fuel --- I think risking that is rude behavior. There are lots of rude people around, sometimes they are rude without realizing it. Maybe that's you. Not being rude doesn't put you at a "disadvantage." It's called "being polite."
 
Well, @apr911, I'm not going to deal with all of that but a few points:

I'll concede your point that, if in the current environment, the Bravo airports are not busy then landing at one "for fun" is probably OK.

Re fun, I never said I was against fun. But we can have fun without being rude.

Re your "rights," that is a childish argument. There are lots of things that we have a "right" to do that we should not do. "Getting in someone's way" might involve delaying a hundred or more people and wasting hundreds of pounds of jet fuel --- I think risking that is rude behavior. There are lots of rude people around, sometimes they are rude without realizing it. Maybe that's you. Not being rude doesn't put you at a "disadvantage." It's called "being polite."
No, what you are describing is called "letting others run your life". If I call ATC and ask if they can fit me in to land at TPA, and they say yes. I'm not going to spend one second stressing about it. Feel free to worry about it if you want to. I kept my speed up as best I could. That allowed me to do what I wanted with minimum impact on others, (others by the way that are doing what they want without worrying a bit about me). That's called "being polite".

If I were to use your argument I would complain that all those people on airliners, and especially rich guys in their biz jets, are being rude for locking up the entire Bravo so I can never fly in it. They should be polite to me. But I don't agree with that argument. It's self defeating.
 
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@Salty hit the nail on the head.

Extending your logic, I should let everyone in line at the grocery store go in front of me because I might be delaying them and who knows what they're doing... Maybe they're a pilot making a last minute stop on their way to work and my delay is going to delay him, get him in trouble cause the flight to be delayed, delaying 100's of people's flight plans. I mean if they ask if they respectfully ask if they can go ahead of me and can give a reason, sure but I cant spend my life worrying that I might be in their way. Is that an extreme? Absolutely but as Salty said its a self-defeating argument.
 
I have no interest in childish arguments.

I will, though, give you one example that IMO is similar. You are at a public park with your dog on a leash. A group is playing football. You have a perfect legal right to walk onto the field where they are playing. So do you exercise your "right?"
 
I have no interest in childish arguments.

I will, though, give you one example that IMO is similar. You are at a public park with your dog on a leash. A group is playing football. You have a perfect legal right to walk onto the field where they are playing. So do you exercise your "right?"
Totally dependent on the situation (which is the point after all, I would never have tried this if it weren't for the low traffic these days). Yes, if there was no convenient way around them, I'd have no problem walking through between plays. Unlikely they would either. Would I let the dog walk around in circles and not go directly across? Of course not. That's why I kept my speed up and didn't take a tour around the city.

Not doing it at all is letting other people run my life. Doing it in the least impactful way possible is "polite".

Now, not letting me walk my dog on that area when nobody is using it to play football would be rude. That is what you are saying.
 
Can you post a third video from a different POV? The two twenty minute long videos of a straight in approach to an airport left me wanting more. :D
 
Can you post a third video from a different POV? The two twenty minute long videos of a straight in approach to an airport left me wanting more. :D
I'm sure you're just making fun of the video length, but I"ll answer anyway. The 20 minutes includes landings at two controlled airports and a flight over Tampa and the Bay. Additionally, if you use the second video, you can move the POV around any way you want. But I know I need to learn to drop content on the edit room floor. I'm not good at that.
 
I have no interest in childish arguments.

I will, though, give you one example that IMO is similar. You are at a public park with your dog on a leash. A group is playing football. You have a perfect legal right to walk onto the field where they are playing. So do you exercise your "right?"

I'd absolutely still walk across the field but that doesn't mean I cant be respectful/courteous in doing so, walking behind the action, waiting for a break between plays, etc. I'm not going to loiter on the field or let my dog take a dump in the middle of their playing field but I'm not going to turn around and leave the park either.

Your example also assumes a position of less than pole position for use of the field... If you and your dog were sitting on a field at a public park having a picnic and a group of people show up wanting to play football, Do you immediately start to pack up your picnic with your dog because they showed up? Do they immediately walk onto the field and start playing?

Being respectful and courteous to another person's rights does not have to come at the cost of my right to be and exist.
 
Thanks for sharing! Which 360 camera did you use?
 
I have no issues with slow private airplanes landing at large airports during peak times IF they have a need. Slow times are an exception, but just to land and taxi back “just because it’s your right to do so” during a push is, well... just BS.
 
....

If I were to use your argument I would complain that all those people on airliners, and especially rich guys in their biz jets, are being rude for locking up the entire Bravo so I can never fly in it. They should be polite to me. But I don't agree with that argument. It's self defeating.


That’s an equivalent of an Amish with a buggy demanding a lane on a highway - I am as libertarian as they come but we don’t do that **** because it doesn’t make sense.
 
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