To mask or not to mask?

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cgrab said:
We had a family Zoom. My brother the retired immunologist, my niece the ER doctor and my other niece the surgeon gave this advice:
1. Take care of yourself and those close to you with a properly worn mask.
2. Avoid standing in crowds of unknown people. Stay upwind and keep moving.
3. Avoid dust (which lingers in the air longer than water droplets) including indoors and polluted cities.
4. If you get sick find a doctor willing to experiment. Most of the drugs being tested work when used early.
5. Studies show that fatalities occur in the old and the obese. If you are either than self quarantine.
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Pretty solid.

The dust inside our house is funny though.

Probably die changing the furnace filter or emptying the robot vacuums with an “essential” coming and going.

Let alone the whole house continuous circulation fan in the HVAC we’ve already decided will get us both as soon as one is asymptomatic.

Heh. Furnace filter fills monthly with the dogs going in and out and prairie dirt.

Wipe all surfaces with liquid disinfectant but don’t vacuum the carpet for six months! Woooot!

Or every time you fire up the vacuum yell, “Leroyyyyyy Jenkinsssssss!”

:) :) :)
 
jonvcaples said:
The lack of understanding on this issue is astounding! Example if I drink enough screwdrivers (oj and vodka) I get drunk. If I drink enough mimosas (oj and champagne) I get drunk so obviously orange juice makes you drunk.
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I've been drinking gin and hydroxychloroquine.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
I'm sure that in six months anyone will be able to be test. Otherwise, they'll need 100 million test kits, or more, and that's a large number to produce, and logistically a nightmare to distribute.
But if I'm still ticking when this is over, I'll get tested.
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Maybe this has been addressed. I am just getting up to speed on this thread. But from my understanding, each test kit can process up to 500 individual tests. So 100 million test kits will provide up to 50 billion individual tests.

I only bring this up since back in the beginning, local hospitals were complaining they only had 3,000 test kits for a county of 500,000 people. Then I found out that 3,000 test kits will test up to 15 million people. Someone may correct me if I am wrong.
 
JOhnH said:
Maybe this has been addressed. I am just getting up to speed on this thread. But from my understanding, each test kit can process up to 500 individual tests. So 100 million test kits will provide up to 50 billion individual tests.

I only bring this up since back in the beginning, local hospitals were complaining they only had 3,000 test kits for a county of 500,000 people. Then I found out that 3,000 test kits will test up to 15 million people. Someone may correct me if I am wrong.
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At this point many hospital labs are set up to run bulk tests in their regular equipment. Also, the commercial lab companies have minimal backlogs. So while it's not like an instant strep-test, testing those who are sick is not much of a bottleneck anymore. Does that mean we have the capacity yet to check every kid that shows up for summer camp or every returning college student, No we don't have that (yet).
 
JOhnH said:
Maybe this has been addressed. I am just getting up to speed on this thread. But from my understanding, each test kit can process up to 500 individual tests. So 100 million test kits will provide up to 50 billion individual tests.

I only bring this up since back in the beginning, local hospitals were complaining they only had 3,000 test kits for a county of 500,000 people. Then I found out that 3,000 test kits will test up to 15 million people. Someone may correct me if I am wrong.
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LOL...at least here, before the “quick tests” came, they just assigned cause of death to CV for everyone who died with a symptom of CV, regardless of testing or other factors in death (eg, one pt died of massive hemorrhaging, had a CV test postmortem...pronounced dead from CV. Not hearsay; what is happening here, now, at the level 1 TC where my wife keeps getting instructions to ignore her medical knowledge and training in charting.)

We’re being punked.
 
cowman said:
For extra protection...
View attachment 83052




On a serious note though, unless you're elderly or have a compromised immune system I wouldn't worry about it.
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actually, the mask is there to protect the elderly and immune compromised. PLEASE wear a mask anytime you'll be around other people outside your household. We can have very real debates about the rightness of the lockdown strategy, but I have no earthly idea why someone wouldn't wear a mask in public. it doesn't hurt you at all, and might save the lives of others if you're unknowingly infected
 
no worries....I'll wear my own N95 mask. All y'all can hack and cough all you want....I'm good. o_O
 
JOhnH said:
Maybe this has been addressed. I am just getting up to speed on this thread. But from my understanding, each test kit can process up to 500 individual tests. So 100 million test kits will provide up to 50 billion individual tests.

I only bring this up since back in the beginning, local hospitals were complaining they only had 3,000 test kits for a county of 500,000 people. Then I found out that 3,000 test kits will test up to 15 million people. Someone may correct me if I am wrong.
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I don't think it works that way, but where did the numbers come from? That a test kit yields 500 individual tests? Which sort of test?
 
MIFlyer said:
it doesn't hurt you at all, and might save the lives of others if you're unknowingly infected
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Not completely true. A number of people in my support groups with other medical issues are actually being harmed by wearing them.

They’re often folks who are hiding anyway but not all.

A few are essentials who aren’t dismissed from work without a diagnosis of COVID and it’s making them quite miserable.

A doctor’s note that they’re being harmed also won’t suffice with their employers. No matter how far away they are from others.

The message that a mask when you’re a significant distance from anyone is saving anybody, is broken.

The number that disappeared but was discussed early on analyzing Italy was the chance of infection even quarantined with a sick person in the same house.

It was 100% over time, but the number extrapolated out to something like 3.8% with no masks at 6’. It wasn’t very high.

Difficult number to predict but pretending it’s 100% without a mask is incorrect by a large number margin.

The joke right now goes:

If masks work, why aren’t we working?
If masks don’t work, why is the Super Walmart open?

Of course the answer is they work, to reduce a single digit percentage risk even lower, and they don’t work if you don’t know how to use them and stuff them together in the car without disinfecting yourself, and you’re going to get sick when you stick your finger in your eye.

But they’re definitely harming some who shouldn’t be wearing them ever.
 
denverpilot said:
Not completely true. A number of people in my support groups with other medical issues are actually being harmed by wearing them.

They’re often folks who are hiding anyway but not all.

A few are essentials who aren’t dismissed from work without a diagnosis of COVID and it’s making them quite miserable.

A doctor’s note that they’re being harmed also won’t suffice with their employers. No matter how far away they are from others.

The message that a mask when you’re a significant distance from anyone is saving anybody, is broken.

The number that disappeared but was discussed early on analyzing Italy was the chance of infection even quarantined with a sick person in the same house.

It was 100% over time, but the number extrapolated out to something like 3.8% with no masks at 6’. It wasn’t very high.

Difficult number to predict but pretending it’s 100% without a mask is incorrect by a large number margin.

The joke right now goes:

If masks work, why aren’t we working?
If masks don’t work, why is the Super Walmart open?

Of course the answer is they work, to reduce a single digit percentage risk even lower, and they don’t work if you don’t know how to use them and stuff them together in the car without disinfecting yourself, and you’re going to get sick when you stick your finger in your eye.

But they’re definitely harming some who shouldn’t be wearing them ever.
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well....ain't that a lame answer. Why not tell/instruct folks what to do and how to properly wear and remove the mask.....and detox?

So far....we have not equipped folks on proper mask usage. Geez, if a nurse or doc can do it....most here could too.
 
Zeldman said:
Why do folks driving their car by themselves with the windows rolled up wear a mask.??
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I have seen it. I don't have any idea. I can't see forgetting to take it off. Too uncomfortable for me to wear more than I need to.
 
German guy said:
@Tantalum

Keep in mind that the number of infected people in Wuhan is only relatively low because the Chinese pretty much shut down the entire city almost immediately. People don't even leave their houses anymore and if the government finds someone with even mild symptoms, the person will be forcefully(!!) admitted to a hospital.

None of this is practical here in the freedom loving States of America.

I bet that there are already thousands of infected people all over the US, unknowingly spreading the virus. I don't see any reason why it should not spread at least as widely as a regular flu. Actually, quite the contrary.

According to the CDC around 34,200 people died from the flu during the 2018 / 19 flu season:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

Wouldn't you think that it might be a slight bit of a reason for concern that we will likely soon have a virus spreading like the flu in the US, that is however at least 100 times as deadly?
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I don’t consider welding apartment buildings shut with people inside “pretty much shutting”. Their shutdown was a phenomenally strict lockdown


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denverpilot said:
Not completely true. A number of people in my support groups with other medical issues are actually being harmed by wearing them.

They’re often folks who are hiding anyway but not all.

A few are essentials who aren’t dismissed from work without a diagnosis of COVID and it’s making them quite miserable.

A doctor’s note that they’re being harmed also won’t suffice with their employers. No matter how far away they are from others.

The message that a mask when you’re a significant distance from anyone is saving anybody, is broken.

The number that disappeared but was discussed early on analyzing Italy was the chance of infection even quarantined with a sick person in the same house.

It was 100% over time, but the number extrapolated out to something like 3.8% with no masks at 6’. It wasn’t very high.

Difficult number to predict but pretending it’s 100% without a mask is incorrect by a large number margin.

The joke right now goes:

If masks work, why aren’t we working?
If masks don’t work, why is the Super Walmart open?

Of course the answer is they work, to reduce a single digit percentage risk even lower, and they don’t work if you don’t know how to use them and stuff them together in the car without disinfecting yourself, and you’re going to get sick when you stick your finger in your eye.

But they’re definitely harming some who shouldn’t be wearing them ever.
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Sorry to hear that Nate. Honestly.

How about, everyone who is able to wear a mask should? Op could wear one fine.

I don’t stink eye non maskers except the dB out of town agro cyclists that “visit” our town


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denverpilot said:
Not completely true. A number of people in my support groups with other medical issues are actually being harmed by wearing them.

They’re often folks who are hiding anyway but not all.

A few are essentials who aren’t dismissed from work without a diagnosis of COVID and it’s making them quite miserable.

A doctor’s note that they’re being harmed also won’t suffice with their employers. No matter how far away they are from others.

The message that a mask when you’re a significant distance from anyone is saving anybody, is broken.

The number that disappeared but was discussed early on analyzing Italy was the chance of infection even quarantined with a sick person in the same house.

It was 100% over time, but the number extrapolated out to something like 3.8% with no masks at 6’. It wasn’t very high.

Difficult number to predict but pretending it’s 100% without a mask is incorrect by a large number margin.

The joke right now goes:

If masks work, why aren’t we working?
If masks don’t work, why is the Super Walmart open?

Of course the answer is they work, to reduce a single digit percentage risk even lower, and they don’t work if you don’t know how to use them and stuff them together in the car without disinfecting yourself, and you’re going to get sick when you stick your finger in your eye.

But they’re definitely harming some who shouldn’t be wearing them ever.
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Where I live, the masks are mainly for show. None of the locals wear them outside at all. Not even Hippie Lady, who I thought sure would join the ranks of the self-appointed enforcers.

Inside stores and the like, we shrug and follow whatever the posted rules are.

Because of the sparse population, people here could probably get away with never washing the masks as long as they never leave the village. Most folks just toss them on the passenger seat or hang them from the rear-view mirror between uses. The big problem is that the two closest "cities" have much higher infection rates, so it's a bad habit.

Rich
 
Zeldman said:
Why do folks driving their car by themselves with the windows rolled up wear a mask.??
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I can only speak for myself: If I need to go to several stores to find what I'm looking for, I figure that putting the mask on and taking it off at each stop would increase the chances of inadvertently transferring infectious material from one side of the mask to the other.
 
RJM62 said:
Best wishes to your colleague, and enjoy your retirement.

As for masks, I wear one when I'm expected to, more as a repellent to self-appointed social-distancing hall monitors than for any other reason. It's the path of least resistance to being left alone. Whatever medical benefits it may have are gravy. I have my doubts about the latter, but I think the chances of it doing some good are probably higher than of it doing any harm.

Rich
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Rich, I wear a mask to help protect you (well, not 2000 miles away), so I wear a mask to help protect others in my physical area. I know that the mask does very little for my benefit. I'd like to think that others have the same consideration and that they will wear a mask to help protect me.
 
murphey said:
Rich, I wear a mask to help protect you (well, not 2000 miles away), so I wear a mask to help protect others in my physical area. I know that the mask does very little for my benefit. I'd like to think that others have the same consideration and that they will wear a mask to help protect me.
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And with so many people being infected without symptoms, very few of us know for sure that we are not infected.
 
murphey said:
Rich, I wear a mask to help protect you (well, not 2000 miles away), so I wear a mask to help protect others in my physical area. I know that the mask does very little for my benefit. I'd like to think that others have the same consideration and that they will wear a mask to help protect me.
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Oh, everyone is compliant indoors in public places. I only know one guy who ******* about it, but he still wears the mask. He just ******* through it. I suggested he get one with a Gadsden flag silk-screened on it so he can consider it a political statement. He seemed to like that idea. I can't say for sure, though, because it's hard to read the facial expressions of someone wearing a mask.

It's also hard to read lips through a mask, I have learned. I also learned that I read lips. I never knew that before.

You also have to consider that this is where I live:

north.jpg

west.jpg

south.jpg

east.jpg

So it doesn't take a whole lot of work to social distance outdoors. It would be harder not to.

Indoors, most people (except for the fellow I mentioned earlier) seem to feel the same way I do: The mask may or may not help, but it's no hardship. Our stores are far from crowded and everything else is closed; and even during the summer when the population goes up, it's unusual to have to wait on line at the register.

That's why I think that the mask's main usefulness around here is as a reminder to keep some distance, even though that's the normal case anyway. If you do happen to be in danger of a head-on pedestrian collision, it's a reminder to see and avoid.

I also think that young children shouldn't wear masks. They're constantly fiddling with the masks and then touching stuff on the shelves. But then again, if they didn't have the masks, they might be picking their noses and then touching stuff on the shelves; so I guess it's a wash. Which also happens to be the precaution that I think is most important in all of this. I have a lot less faith in masks than I do in soap and water.

Rich
 
Yeah if I was going into a densely populated area I’d probably do the mask thing. Maybe in a busy store. I try to avoid both regardless of any virus.

If I go into the closest town to me which is in an area that’s only had 1 case of COVID this entire time and where I can just hold my breath as I walk by the 2 or 3 people I might pass in a store I don’t really see it as that important.

In the bigger busier town I occasionally shop at ok, they had 40 cases in that county and there are too many people to just avoid everyone in the store so... ok maybe but I’m going in as plague doctor.
 
cowman said:
Yeah if I was going into a densely populated area I’d probably do the mask thing. Maybe in a busy store. I try to avoid both regardless of any virus.

If I go into the closest town to me which is in an area that’s only had 1 case of COVID this entire time and where I can just hold my breath as I walk by the 2 or 3 people I might pass in a store I don’t really see it as that important.

In the bigger busier town I occasionally shop at ok, they had 40 cases in that county and there are too many people to just avoid everyone in the store so... ok maybe but I’m going in as plague doctor.
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I live in a densely populated area and wear a mask in stores, the post office, banks, public transit, etc. but we are required to do so. I don't feel that this order violates anyone's constitutional rights. I generally take the mask off once outdoors unless I'm walking between stores, where it's inconvenient. The streets aren't that crowded. I can see why people who live in rural areas have different habits. Before this, I lived in a rural area. That said, this urban area hasn't had many cases or deaths, especially this part of the city.
 
Everskyward said:
I live in a densely populated area and wear a mask in stores, the post office, banks, public transit, etc. but we are required to do so. I don't feel that this order violates anyone's constitutional rights. I generally take the mask off once outdoors unless I'm walking between stores, where it's inconvenient. The streets aren't that crowded. I can see why people who live in rural areas have different habits. Before this, I lived in a rural area. That said, this urban area hasn't had many cases or deaths, especially this part of the city.
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Exactly. I'm anti-mask, but if a private business wishes to make a mask mandatory to enter their business, that's fine. Just today I was asked to not enter a home improvement store without a mask. So I didn't, but went to a competitor, who was more than willing to take my money, mask or not. I'm unlikely to ever return to the business that is requiring masks.

I wear a mask at work, when required to (when I'm unable to maintain 6 ft between people, outside the cockpit). I too live in the country, and in the small towns I don't see too many wearing masks. I ventured into the bigger city today, and that's where the masks were seen more (but certainly nowhere near 90% even).
 
Everskyward said:
I live in a densely populated area and wear a mask in stores, the post office, banks, public transit, etc. but we are required to do so. I don't feel that this order violates anyone's constitutional rights. I generally take the mask off once outdoors unless I'm walking between stores, where it's inconvenient. The streets aren't that crowded. I can see why people who live in rural areas have different habits. Before this, I lived in a rural area. That said, this urban area hasn't had many cases or deaths, especially this part of the city.
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Honestly the mask thing doesn't bother me that much. If they'd allow people to open up their businesses and go back to work contingent on wearing masks I'd be all for it. Without getting too political our state recovery plan seems to be almost entirely based on what's going on in one particular metro area and people who live 2-5 hour drives away from there and not seeing much of a pandemic are getting frustrated and angry over it. That's resulting in a lot of local governments refusing to enforce the orders and people getting somewhat rebellious over the whole thing.

I think we'd have a better situation if people were given more flexibility and allowed to resume normal routines with some added precautions.
 
cowman said:
Honestly the mask thing doesn't bother me that much. If they'd allow people to open up their businesses and go back to work contingent on wearing masks I'd be all for it. Without getting too political our state recovery plan seems to be almost entirely based on what's going on in one particular metro area and people who live 2-5 hour drives away from there and not seeing much of a pandemic are getting frustrated and angry over it. That's resulting in a lot of local governments refusing to enforce the orders and people getting somewhat rebellious over the whole thing.

I think we'd have a better situation if people were given more flexibility and allowed to resume normal routines with some added precautions.
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The governors in more restrictive states might want to keep people from being able to travel to Texas...because their constituents will be pretty upset when they realize most of us here don’t wear masks, most businesses have been open, and the sky isn’t falling.
 
Wisconsin Supreme Court just struck down their stay at home order as invalid. Opponents wanted six days to make a new one. Judges said “you already had plenty of time...”
 
Everskyward said:
I live in a densely populated area and wear a mask in stores, the post office, banks, public transit, etc. but we are required to do so. I don't feel that this order violates anyone's constitutional rights. I generally take the mask off once outdoors unless I'm walking between stores, where it's inconvenient. The streets aren't that crowded. I can see why people who live in rural areas have different habits. Before this, I lived in a rural area. That said, this urban area hasn't had many cases or deaths, especially this part of the city.
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I've been getting emails from the City of Palo Alto (the next town north of me), probably because I have a library card there. Anyway I got one today saying that they have made mask wearing mandatory for some purposes. (See below for text of the email.)

Face Coverings Requirement Now in Effect in Palo Alto
A face covering requirement went into effect at noon today in Palo Alto. All members of the public are required to wear face coverings while outside their home for permitted activities such as shopping at essential businesses or obtaining medical care. Face coverings, however, are not required, but encouraged, when engaged in outdoor activities such as walking, hiking, running, or biking. If you do not wear a face covering for these outdoor activities, please remember to comply with the six-foot social distancing requirements. Anyone wishing to report a violation of the City’s new face covering Order is welcome to call the Police Department’s 24-hour dispatch center at 650–329–2413. Learn more about this requirement here.​
 
Kenny Phillips said:
I'm sure that in six months anyone will be able to be test. Otherwise, they'll need 100 million test kits, or more, and that's a large number to produce, and logistically a nightmare to distribute.
But if I'm still ticking when this is over, I'll get tested.
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I work an essential job and I developed a potential symptom (inability to smell) a few weeks ago. At the time, my state government had declared essential workers could get tested even if they didn't have symptoms. So my doctor said yes, you're eligible so go get tested. I contacted the testing folks and they said 'yeah I know the state says you can get tested, but we don't have enough tests so we don't give a f*ck what the state says, we ain't gonna test you.' So I couldn't get tested. My doctor said well in that case, just stay home for a week and if you don't develop any other symptoms, go back to work.

I stayed home. I never developed any other symptoms and my sense of smell came back so after a week I went back to work.

Now I'm seeing that some hospital networks in my state have enough capacity that they're doing tests even if you don't have symptoms. Its more than two weeks since I had a symptom so fat lotta good that'll do me now. But I also see that there is a local lab that can and will do antibody testing so long as I'm willing to pay $170 for the test (they do not take any insurance). So I can pay $170 and get an antibody test. But everything I'm reading tells me only about 60% of antibody tests are correct. Which means if I pay $170 and take the test, no matter what the result is, I will know exactly what I already know, which is maybe I had it, maybe I didn't. I really can't see much point in getting tested at this point considering the circumstances.
 
I haven't worn a mask yet. I have one, still sealed in the plastic, in my car.

If there was a need to travel to some Scithole place like [any big city] I'd probably wear something close to a pressure suit and a welding mask...
 
IK04 said:
I haven't worn a mask yet. I have one, still sealed in the plastic, in my car.

If there was a need to travel to some Scithole place like [any big city] I'd probably wear something close to a pressure suit and a welding mask...
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Unless you have a full blown PPE outfit or a N95 mask at a minimum; the mask requirements in most places is not about protecting you. It is about protecting others from you. And this does basic fact does not change if you are in bum **** nowhere or downtown **** hole.


Tim

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RJM62 said:
Best wishes to your colleague, and enjoy your retirement.

As for masks, I wear one when I'm expected to, more as a repellent to self-appointed social-distancing hall monitors than for any other reason. It's the path of least resistance to being left alone. Whatever medical benefits it may have are gravy. I have my doubts about the latter, but I think the chances of it doing some good are probably higher than of it doing any harm.

Rich
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Thanks.
He made it and is home recovering. Unfortunately two other guys I know from the NYC metro area (both in their 50's) did not.

Yeah I agree, wearing a mask depends on the circumstances. When I go for walks or ride my bike early in the morning or late at night, when the sidewalks are empty in my neighborhood, I won't wear one. During the middle of the day/early evening, I do. I live in a very scenic area and there are lots of people out taking in the spectacular views of the Manhattan skyline, from across the Hudson. Here at work, I'm alone most of the time, however, it has become standard practice to put one on when walking in to make the relief and get briefed, before allowing anyone else in, as well as anytime we're with a trainee.

Everyone complies except the two youngest clowns in their late 20's:rolleyes:. I never lecture them about it, just let them do their thing. Nor am I one of their trainees.
So when I have to interact with them, fortunately the briefing is very.. "brief" LOL.


Anyhow, I'll probably hang around a little longer since I enjoy my work and it gives me something to look forward to and a reason to get out of the house, lol.
Also, now that the weather is getting warmer, I leave the car at home and ride my bike in. 30 minutes of good exercise each way:)
 
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tspear said:
Unless you have a full blown PPE outfit or a N95 mask at a minimum; the mask requirements in most places is not about protecting you. It is about protecting others from you.
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I keep seeing that and reading that...& I think most folks understand why and what it means
but I can't help but thinking there probably is some benefit for me for me to wear a mask.
depending on the fabric, it may not offer much filtration, but even an open-ish weave fabric will catch something. Yeah, I get it that viruses are small....but I'm hoping that I'm not sticking my head into a virus-saturated environment either. If there are two little viruses floating in the air hopefully it'll at least catch 1 and my body can fight off the other 1...where I might not be able to fight off two
and even if filtration is essentially zero, the mask will help me to reduce touching my face while I'm wearing it.....which is at least something
 
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