Do Cessna 172/182 Breakup in-flight

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

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I thought I'd query the NTSB database to see if I could get an idea of the factors involved in structural failures of 172s and 182s. The results came back suspiciously low and when I read the reports, didn't 'seem to be what I was looking for which is structural failure as a cause of incidents.

Is there a better way to conduct this search than the NTSB search query?
Id I downloaded the xml any recommendations on how best to parse for the desired search parameters on a Mac.

Thank you
 
Jaybird180 said:
Is there a better way to conduct this search than the NTSB search query
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FWIW: Hit the "help" button on the database main page. There are a number of search tips and wildcard symbols that may help. When I didnt get results I thought should be there, sent email to address listed on page for assistance. Sometimes the data is what it is. Good luck.
 
I should clarify that I'm looking for indications of negligent maintenance where the result is structural (or control) failure during flight.
 
Bell206 said:
FWIW: Hit the "help" button on the database main page. There are a number of search tips and wildcard symbols that may help. When I didnt get results I thought should be there, sent email to address listed on page for assistance. Sometimes the data is what it is. Good luck.
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I took your suggestion. I filled out a query but they wanted a lot of my personal information to ask them. And then it says their turnaround time is 3wks.
 
"No strut-braced Cessna wing has ever failed in flight" is one of those commonly heard truisms in aviation. Apparently said by Steve Ells of Cessna Pilots Association. There are a LOT of strut-braced Cessnas out there (45,000 172s alone) so "not ever" would be hard to prove, but the numbers are certainly low.

Not that people haven't tried:

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/172-lands-safely-missing-much-of-a-wing/
 
Jaybird180 said:
looking for indications of negligent maintenance where the result is structural (or control) failure during flight.
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Jaybird180 said:
but they wanted a lot of my personal information to ask them.
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I get the feeling this is more than a casual inquiry on 172/182 inflight breakups. Regardless, to dig that specific you might need the NTSB assistance. Or, you could use search terms like "inflight" or "structural" with a wildcard and download all the results. Then peruse all the results manually. Why is submitting your personal info a problem? The NTSB has various rules when officially disseminating information. And 3 weeks is not a bad lead time considering the current circumstances.
 
Strut bolt came out of one. Fatal. It's been discussed here before. Most catastrophic failures that I found were attempts at low level aerobatics that went wrong.
Searching the data base is not super easy - the entries are not that consistent when it comes to model numbers and that sort of thing.
 
Kevin Holbrook said:
"No strut-braced Cessna wing has ever failed in flight" is one of those commonly heard truisms in aviation. Apparently said by Steve Ells of Cessna Pilots Association. There are a LOT of strut-braced Cessnas out there (45,000 172s alone) so "not ever" would be hard to prove, but the numbers are certainly low.

Not that people haven't tried:

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/172-lands-safely-missing-much-of-a-wing/
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KathrynsReport.png


HOLY MONKEY MUFFINS..!!!

And it still flew to the airport in this condition where someone felt the need to tie it down.
 
There are been 11 fatal Aerobat crashes in the NTSB database.

Let's see the causes:
1. Passenger struck by prop when removing the chocks.
2. VFR pilot into night/ifr conditions
3. Failure to recover from a spin at low altitude.
4. VFR into IFR
5. Failure to recover from a spin at low altitude.
6. Low altitude stall/spin from non-acro trained pilot doing stunts.
7. Low altitude acrobatics CFIT while drunk
8. Mid-air with 172.
9. VFR into IMC by drunk pilot (and near mid-air earlier in flight)
10. Stall/Spin on pullup from low pass.
11. no accessible report

None seem to be structural failure. You've got three VFR-into-IMC, and four stall-spins (many from very low altitudes). There does seem to be a higher proportion of drunk pilots in the list.
 
flyingron said:
There are been 11 fatal Aerobat crashes in the FAA database.

Let's see the causes:
1. Passenger struck by prop when removing the chocks.
2. VFR pilot into night/ifr conditions
3. Failure to recover from a spin at low altitude.
4. VFR into IFR
5. Failure to recover from a spin at low altitude.
6. Low altitude stall/spin from non-acro trained pilot doing stunts.
7. Low altitude acrobatics CFIT while drunk
8. Mid-air with 172.
9. VFR into IMC by drunk pilot (and near mid-air earlier in flight)
10. Stall/Spin on pullup from low pass.
11. no accessible report
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It sure does sound like Cessna's have a problem handling drunk pilots! ;)
 
JOhnH said:
It sure does sound like Cessna's have a problem handling drunk pilots! ;)
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I don't think it's Cessna's in particular, just Aerobats. There's something about drunks wanting to do aerobatics. We had one with a severely intoxicated Navion pilot trying to do acro. While the Navion is a nice stout plane, it's not one I'd chose to try acro in.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
myths in aviation.
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Not none, but a very low number. I think two pre-crash structural failures is all there were in Skyhawks. There were more in Cardinals and 210's which have a cantilever wing. I'd dig down a bit but the NTSB database site is crocked right now.
 
Thanks guys. I'll look at the resources linked in this thread.
 
Any airplane will fail if you pull hard enough at a fast enough speed. Read about the Vg diagram.
 
A reading of the links and links of links found a few overstress incidents and one maintenance misstep (missing strut attachment nut) that took the life of the pilot who was likely the A&P who did the work.
 
Of course, a lot of the things that lead to structural failures (like your VFR-into-IMC steep spiral) result in a fatal crash even if the wings don't come off first.
 
I'm actually looking for structural failure, which includes more that just the wings coming off. I know of one case where the engine come dismounted after an overhaul, though I don't recall the type aircraft- but that could happen to any type aircraft; negligent maintenance affects all equally, though some designs may incur more incidents due to engineering "flaws".
 
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