Class B, VFR or IFR?

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dmount76

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dmount76
I plan to fly into my first class Bravo, Denver, on Sunday. Thought now would be a good time to do it! Should I go in VFR or IFR or does it make much difference with the reduced traffic? Any other tips for a first time Bravo guy? I've done several D and C. Thanks.
 
Call the tower and see what works best for them. I’ve done Class B airports both IFR and VFR.
 
It’s really your choice, fly it the way your most comfortable.
 
Typically I’d say go IFR, but with the way everything is right now having substantially reduced traffic volumes, I’d say you have just as good of a chance as any by going VFR.

Don’t over think it, it’s really not a big deal at all, just stick to assigned altitudes and headings and be quick and concise with your radio work. Have fun!
 
IFR is a non-event. Nothing different than any other type of airspace. You just fly your clearance.

VFR you have to ensure that you receive the required clearance prior to entry. You are also more likely to be told to navigate visually to landmarks that you may not be familiar with. You could also be denied entry if they are busy--probably not an issue these days.
 
I feel more spoon-fed (a good thing for me) with ifr.
VFR I feel like I am begging them (well you almost are sometimes) or inconveniencing them. Depends on the airport of course.
 
dmount76 said:
I plan to fly into my first class Bravo, Denver, on Sunday. Thought now would be a good time to do it! Should I go in VFR or IFR or does it make much difference with the reduced traffic? Any other tips for a first time Bravo guy? I've done several D and C. Thanks.
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Flip a coin. For what it’s worth there is not one B in the Country that currently meets the Traffic/Passenger Count criteria to even be a B.
 
Just flew VFR thru DFW...remember u can’t enter class B airspace until u receive a verbal approval.
 
My plane's in annual, but I really want to to do a low approach at LAX. This is the best time to do it.
 
If you’re landing DEN, it makes absolutely zero difference. You will be vectored, and given altitudes the same regardless if VFR or IFR.
I suspect in these slow times there will be very few limitations from ATC. Nothing like an arrival during *normal* times.
 
You "probably" will get vectored, but you should be prepared to own nav to the airport. It does happen from time to time (probably more so now that the traffic is down. Sometimes VFR gives you more route flexibility.
 
I've been away for 8 years now, but even when busy, Denver controllers are great. IFR/VFR shouldn't make any difference. Are you landing there or just passing through? If landing and stopping, on a "normal" day I would expect an outlying runway and a long taxi. Times like this, I would expect being lead to the runway closest to Signature and aligned with the wind.
 
Ditto the above posts, IFR or VFR doesn't really make any difference. Winds permitting, they will try to land you on 35L/17R right next to Signature.
A few tips for DEN:
You might want to check with Signature as to fees and minimum fuel purchase, etc., it can be a bit pricey (I actually don't know how it would work if you just do a full stop and taxi back for departure.)
Be prepared to "keep your speed up" on final, this may mean not extending gear and flaps, or whatever, until very short final. Though, traffic may be so light it won't matter.
If you do have to taxi from the east side to west, or vice-versa, through the terminal area, say from GA parking by 35L to 34L, they'll probably have you traverse the ramp area on taxiway AA. Be prepared for ground frequency changes, there's one for east side, one for ramp/gate area, and one for west.
On departure, the routine is, as it is at many busy airfields, somewhere during your taxi as you near your assigned runway, ground control will tell you to "monitor tower." After switching frequency, no check-in is required or wanted, the next thing you'll hear is from tower with takeoff clearance, or line up and wait, or hold short, etc. They ex[ect you to be ready to go. There is really no time or place to do a run-up, so either do that while taxiing, or have everything checked before even calling ground for taxi.
Of course, it might be so quiet there now, that all this will be moot. At any rate, have fun!
 
Sounds like the OP mainly wants to fly in the Bravo, not necessarily land at KDEN. For that have a specific request. For example, have a VFR direct destination that a Bravo transition would be beneficial. During the VFR fkight following request add in requesting transition thru Bravo airspace.

But its more fun to be in there a while and see stuff and get some pics. So ask to overfly DEN.

If you want to do a low approach just ask them.

Here's the good part about KDEN. Technically the AF/D has no specific instructions requiring GA traffic to full stop. For example MSP does and ATL does not so @Ryanb was able to do a full stop and taxi back at ATL while I had to full stop to Signature. All this doesnt mean they have to allow a full stop and taxi back but it should be possible.

Low approaches are also interesting. Using ATL I believe their AF/D has remarks indicating not allowed. But here at MSP it is not listed and this allowed (I was offered a low approach by them). But he MSP also has remarks regarding no training flights. Another Bravo has remarks regarding no practice approaches.

The KDEN remarks are incredibly lean for how big and busy it is. So technically you have all options. If I was near KDEN I would request a full stop and taxi back sometime around dinner time. Take a low approach as a alternative if the want you to stop at the ramp. If you go to the ramp post your bill. Will probably be between $150...$200.

You can also just ask to sight see or scenic or photo flight. Just tell them where you want to go.

Have fun!
 
I missed the perfect opportunity to get the MSP stamp in my MN passport
 
Landing fee at DEN is pricey ($40) but you'll be raped more by SIgnature than by the airport.

I can't vouch for DEN but the DC Area primary airports don't charge a landing fee if you never leave the movement area.
 
Not to be a wet blanket, but I was on Long Island last week trying to transition the NY Bravo to the Southwest. No go. “Remain clear the Bravo”.

We filed a pop-up IFR and had no issues, just like always.
 
I was listening in on the ATC at KLAX and they provided an experimental with landing and taxi back all via VFR. If anybody ever wanted to fly a class B that way, now is the time to do it.
 
I did Phx on Thursday, just for fun.

I like IFR anytime a class-B airspace is in play. Essentially, it eliminates it.

I flew home from Sedona yesterday, and had to be mindful of the B. Granted, some yahoo in a 172 behind me simply asked for a B clearance, and got it. (What a mook that guy was!) Normally, it's not the case.
 
Vince R said:
Not to be a wet blanket, but I was on Long Island last week trying to transition the NY Bravo to the Southwest. No go. “Remain clear the Bravo”.

We filed a pop-up IFR and had no issues, just like always.
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NY is a far cry from DEN.
 
Rgbeard said:
I did Phx on Thursday, just for fun.

I like IFR anytime a class-B airspace is in play. Essentially, it eliminates it.

I flew home from Sedona yesterday, and had to be mindful of the B. Granted, some yahoo in a 172 behind me simply asked for a B clearance, and got it. (What a mook that guy was!) Normally, it's not the case.
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How does that make him a mook? Even though the odds were not good, his request was granted.

If his request was denied and he failed to have a viable alternative plan, THAT would have made him a mook!
 
Agreed!

For a moment... I thought he may have been on frequency with me! "Some Yahoo in a 172"


"Hey!! :mad:" -me

"Chuck? Is that you? :confused:"
 
(Welp, my coffee has evidently reached full effectiveness... time to bounce off the walls somewhere else. Wheeeeee)
 
Full disclosure: I had to look up "mook"!
 
Palmpilot said:
How does that make him a mook? Even though the odds were not good, his request was granted.

If his request was denied and he failed to have a viable alternative plan, THAT would have made him a mook!
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The yahoo in the 172 was a real mook, for sure.

He and his wife, tried to beat us to Sedona, but we won, and landed first.

Then the guy tailed us home! But we lost him.

Oh, and we shared a picnic with them too, at the airport. Ya know, real goombahs.

Maybe a Sedona Picnic thread will soon follow.

(and yes, that man may also call me a mook any time he chooses. all in good jest)
 
Sinistar said:
The KDEN remarks are incredibly lean for how big and busy it is. So technically you have all options. If I was near KDEN I would request a full stop and taxi back sometime around dinner time. Take a low approach as a alternative if the want you to stop at the ramp. If you go to the ramp post your bill. Will probably be between $150...$200.
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We used to do night student dual cross countries at DEN. I would usually set it up as a diversion due to weather. Depending in how busy, we'd get anything from low approaches to stop & goes to taxibacks. Don't know if things have changed, but never charged a landing fee.
 
Sinistar said:
Theres no way its ramping back up in 3-4wks. The plane should be done by then right?
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i am sincerely hoping thats the case.... so far just the AP brackets have been test fitted.. not even installed and the servos have been assembled and a crap load of wires have been removed. I am guessing new wires for entire audio panel and every connection is gonna take some time and whatever wire they need run for the AP
 
Vince R said:
Not to be a wet blanket, but I was on Long Island last week trying to transition the NY Bravo to the Southwest. No go. “Remain clear the Bravo”.

We filed a pop-up IFR and had no issues, just like always.
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Interesting. I fly out of FRG and I’ve never been denied a transition. The worst they’ve given me was to call back in 5 minutes. It seems like the ones who get denied (not saying you do this) are the ones that sound like amateurs on the radio.
 
Rgbeard said:
The yahoo in the 172 was a real mook, for sure.

He and his wife, tried to beat us to Sedona, but we won, and landed first.

Then the guy tailed us home! But we lost him.

Oh, and we shared a picnic with them too, at the airport. Ya know, real goombahs.

Maybe a Sedona Picnic thread will soon follow.

(and yes, that man may also call me a mook any time he chooses. all in good jest)
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Mrs. P and I were pedaling as hard as we could, but rgb's Lance has some magic button on the panel that makes the drag from the wheels disappear ... :confused:



And yeah, PHX TRACON was handing out Bravo clearances like Halloween candy. No reason not to stay up in the cooler, relatively bug-free air! :cool:
 
My vote is to do it VFR. I would be willing to bet they clear you right on in. I have done IAD and CLT both IFR and both non-events. Did CLT class B in the right seat earlier this week VFR with a friend in his Cherokee. "Clear into Class Bravo, Information November is current". No instructions, no vectors, no-nothing, so we just headed for the airport. Eventually told us to expect 36R and asked what we wanted to do. Let us land and taxi back for take off (they turned the airport around on us right after we landed). Didn't have go the the FBO, pay fees or anything. Stayed with tower the whole time, never got handed to ground. Got the the hold short line for 18L, tower came on and asked us if we were ready and where we were headed before we could even key the mic. Heard a 172 on the radio that was ahead of us, but other than that never heard or even saw another airplane move. Very eerie experience. But the CLT approach and tower controllers were awesome to work with.
 
I have done both. If you are not sharp on IFR arrivals and or approaches I would do VFR. Even if it is VFR conditions you might be given an IFR approach if you are IFR.
 
Got it done! It was a blast! I was VFR and they gave me a clearance to land of "turn on a heading of 260 and intercept the localizer for 17R". I thought that was strange for VFR. Once on the ground one of the jet pilots asked "Where'd the bonanza come from" tower replied "Somewhere north!" was great! ATC was very accommodating.
 
Way to go. Surprised you were vectored to a localizer VFR. My non IR would have been "Say what..".

So they didn't make you pull into Signature?

I see in your video, like MSP and probably every other busy Bravo...the runway is like black-hole black especially around the 1000ft'ers (as it should be). I wonder if a night landing would be especially "interesting" even with embedded lights, etc. It seems like it would be another hole to fall into.
 
Sinistar said:
Way to go. Surprised you were vectored to a localizer VFR. My non IR would have been "Say what..".
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At DEN, they're running up to three parallel finals. They can't have somebody wandering around doing S-turns along final. They need you to be able to join the final approach course and track if accurately. Doesn't have to be the LOC, though. If your GPS can load the runways final approach course, and you can track is accurately, that will work fine.
 
I've gone through the CLT class B VFR but I specifically chose my route to stay away from the big airport flight paths. I live under the outer tier of the class B, but it's usually not advantageous to try and go through because they're going to route me away from CLT anyhow (I'm due north of their multiple N/S runways).
 
Landed VFR at LAX the other day. As a non-ifr pilot, it was a total non-event in terms of getting clearance from SoCal, following assigned headings and altitude then lining up on 25L.
Touch n gos are prohibited at LAX. Full stop taxi back operations are not. Dunno about low approaches.
Landing fees only apply to air carrier ops and cargo. It's in the regulations. Yet, there are still people out there, who mistakenly believe that GA pilots must taxi to an FBO to pay landing fees. There are no landing fees applicable to us at LAX. There is, however, ramp fee that applies as soon as your little Cessna wheels touch the surface of the ramp and the FBO has every right to collect such ramp fees. That does not mean you have to let the controller bully you into taxiing to an FBO to pay "landing fees" (their words, not mine). Ask me how I know...

It was funny when on departure tower asked "can you accept intersection take off, you have 7000 feet remaining" :D
 

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