nice glass panels, and still need an iPad!?!

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Brad W

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I was just watching the youtube video by @FlyingMonkey touring his very nice Dynon based panel

In his panel he included a very nice mount for an ipad....running I assume foreflight.
and he showed it right after pointing out the USB port that allows the Dynon to have an up to date database.

Now I've seen others like this as well...and I don't mean this to be critical in anyway of Flyingmonkey, or anyone.... (except maybe the avionics makers)

It just struck me as funny.... that you can spend such HUGE money on a glass panel but still need an ipad!

What does that say about these stupid expensive certified panels?
Kinda says to me that there's something wrong here.

You've got plenty of acreage of glass display area. Plenty of computing power on board. Presumably all the data a person would ever need regarding waypoints, navigation, freqs, etc... You have ADS-B bringing in weather and traffic....

So what is missing that still makes an aftermarket add on device need a prominent place in the cockpit?

I will add that I liked how Flyingmonkey found a very nice way to mount his ipad that isn't in some afterthought window or instrument hiding place. How it should be!
 
I suspect if I move to Skyview from current Dynon D-100 I would not need/want any portable. As it is, I need plates on something to cross check the 430W approaches against. For that I have a panel mounted GPS696. I still prefer dedicated aviation portables to tablet apps. (Probably always will)

Looks like this:
panel.jpg
 
My last plane was an RV6, although I didn't build that one I did cut the entire panel out and do it over from scratch. Even though I installed a Dynon Skyview with all the bells and whistles, part of my reasoning was to free up the right side for a large Ipad mounted to the panel angled toward the pilot. There's just so much EFB innovation going on as well as other aviation related apps (not to forget non aviation uses), it seems almost criminal not to utilize. Ipads are probably the best bang for the buck aviation has ever seen.
 
The iPad is the best way to flight plan and check weather ahead of time. Also, it can be a dedicated approach plate display. It is not reliable enough to be a primary flight display for IFR flight, but as a supplement, it works great. I have a SkyView in my 182, and for local flights I don’t get my iPad out, but for cross country, I put my iPad mini on a yoke mount.
 
Also, what will happen if something happens to the nav database on the glass panel, and you're IFR/IMC? In order to have a paperless cockpit, it is suggested that you have a backup, and logic would dictate that you have a backup.
 
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Remember when you wanted/needed a new PC every 18 to 24 months?

The fact is that panel glass is hyper expensive, has to meet very specific specs and standards for primary use in flight, and they live in an environment where frequent updates can be problematic.

Tablets and phones are relatively cheap, can do whatever a software developer wants it to do for a market, and because they are personal, frequent updates are tolerated.

Tablets and similar devices are always going to have the latest features and take advantage of the latest technology. Panel mounted equipment is always going to lag due to expense and the need for stability.

Having both in the cockpit is having the best of both worlds.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
Brad W said:
What does that say about these stupid expensive certified panels?
Kinda says to me that there's something wrong here.

...
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My kid brother makes his living flying Boeing 787s. There's two airline issued iPads (not Androids!) in the cockpit whenever the plane is moving. ;)

I only have a Garmin GNS navigator in my twin. But I still prefer the convenience of doing the flight planning on my iPad at home, in advance.
 
The most advanced screen I have is a Garmin Aera 660, but I still print the approach charts I "think" I'll be needing from Airnav. Full size are easier for old eyes!!
 
@Brad W I fly a G1000 w/ GFC700 sometimes and still have my iPad. Why? I leave the instruments dedicated to flying thr plane and use the iPad to lookup frequencies of the airspace/destination. For me, it's a safety thing. Also, approach plates like @Jesse Saint said.
 
i travel quite a lot for work (before this COVID thing that is), nearly EVERY flight i board I check the cockpit while boarding if the door is open, or from the side window window next to the door and nearly EVERY pilot has a iPad on their multi million $ big iron. there is a TBM in my avionics shop right now, that had 2 750's and i have seen 2 iPad mounts on that as well.

backup for charts
planning the flight at the FBO
moving the flight plan to the panel mount unit
...more
 
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I Pad ,best piece of equipment I’ve purchased,and I can use it on other airplanes.
 
wheaties said:
I fly a G1000 w/ GFC700 sometimes and still have my iPad. Why? I leave the instruments dedicated to flying thr plane and use the iPad to lookup frequencies of the airspace/destination. For me, it's a safety thing. Also, approach plates like @Jesse Saint said.
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I also fly G1000/GFC700. I find that using the G1000 to look up certain frequencies is more convenient.

The G1000 also has approach plates but I find that the iPad is easier to read. I have yet to look at approach plates on the NXi, though.
 
It really depends on what type of flying you do. For work my glass has 90 % of what I need so the iPads while required, aren’t really crucial. I can update W&B, check hospital LZs, freqs, approach plates, risk assessment etc. but I don’t bury my head in the iPad.

For personal flying, my glass has no traffic, no weather, and the moving maps can’t compare to a ForeFlight sectional. So, if on a XC country, the iPad is a must. Unfortunately I rarely do XCs these days and I’m too lazy to bust out the iPad on local flights, so it really doesn’t get much use.:D
 
I'm flying the Cirrus with a perspective+. Nope, I don't need an I pad, but I won't fly without one. I have FF which I use to flight plan, brief and I load the FMS from the ipad most of the time. The Ipad is my back up to the double redundant Perspective +. Cheap insurance for if the unimaginable happens.
 
asicer said:
I also fly G1000/GFC700. I find that using the G1000 to look up certain frequencies is more convenient.

The G1000 also has approach plates but I find that the iPad is easier to read. I have yet to look at approach plates on the NXi, though.
Click to expand...

The NXi is comparable to the Perspective +, I brief plates from the perspective+, which are Jepps. Fast and easy. If I have time I load the plates into FF too for back up.
 
Adding to @Jesse Saint comments.... iPad is best flight planning tool ever since you can bring it to the plane and frequently download the plane to the avionics. I also like it for “what if scenarios“ while on cross country trips. Especially planning a diversion for sightseeing or changing the plan in flight for various reasons, while not disturbing the current plan displayed in the cockpit.

I also prefer the IPad cell phone versions with GPS. Number of times plans have changed while on the ground at small airports and gaining access to flight planning without a Wi-Fi connection has proven valuable in my travels. Even something as simple as getting a hotel room or a rental car before takeoff or after landing has been beneficial.
 
The other piece of it is:

"Now that I bought a panel worth more than my car, I want to fly but haven't taken the time to figure out how to use all of the panel's features. I'll just use my iPad."
 
NordicDave said:
I also prefer the IPad cell phone versions with GPS. Number of times plans have changed while on the ground at small airports and gaining access to flight planning without a Wi-Fi connection has proven valuable in my travels.
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I opted for the cheaper version without cell/GPS and haven't felt like I've missed out. If I need to put the iPad online and I'm not near WiFi, I just turn my phone into a hot spot and voila.
 
Nathan Miller said:
I opted for the cheaper version without cell/GPS and haven't felt like I've missed out. If I need to put the iPad online and I'm not near WiFi, I just turn my phone into a hot spot and voila.
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One with GPS will give you your position, speed, direction, obstacles, etc. on a nice moving map.
 
I don't have a fancy glass panel, I do have a pair of G5's, IFD440 and a GTX 345. I run 2 Ipads in the cockpit, Ipad mini yoke mount I run the IFD100 app, on my Guardian Avionics panel mount I have an 11" Ipad Pro, I usually have Garmin Pilot running. I use the 11" for filing flight plans and preflight planning, in flight I use it mostly for ADS-b traffic and weather. If I had a full glass panel, I think I'd have pretty much the same setup.
 
wheaties said:
@Brad W I fly a G1000 w/ GFC700 sometimes and still have my iPad. Why? I leave the instruments dedicated to flying thr plane and use the iPad to lookup frequencies of the airspace/destination. For me, it's a safety thing.
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I'm curious, what do you feel is unsafe about switching screens on the MFD to find what you're looking for?

I never have been a heavy iPad user in the cockpit but I find myself rarely using it in the G1000 airplanes I fly. Most flights go without ever even turning it on. We're too cheap to pay for a subscription for approach plates so that is all I use it for and I probably only do an approach a handful of times each year. Mostly for currency. Everything else can be easily accessed on the MFD.
 
mondtster said:
I'm curious, what do you feel is unsafe about switching screens on the MFD to find what you're looking for?
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Not having to switch screens? I've got 2 situations in 2yrs that told me some people are going to have an on-air collision at some point cause they have no awareness.
 
wheaties said:
Not having to switch screens? I've got 2 situations in 2yrs that told me some people are going to have an on-air collision at some point cause they have no awareness.
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I don’t understand. What does that have to do with the G1000 question I asked about?

Nothing in the flight plan, the autopilot, nor the primary instruments gets disturbed when using the MFD for the purpose it was designed for.

I suspect most people’s apprehension to using the MFD is out of fear that something is going to get messed up. Some of that probably stems from instructors not understanding it and teaching it so people fall back to the old iPad because they’re familiar. But once the system is figured out, it can be very useful and you don’t have to have appendages all over the airplane for all the superfluous stuff, like an iPad.
 
Unfortunately then you just won't understand. Glad it works for you like it does. I prefer to fly a plane the way I like.
 
agree with @mondtster . i have about 40 hours with G1000 and i didnt discover iPad back then for aviation stuff. everything i did, was on the MFD and it worked pretty well.
 
wheaties said:
Unfortunately then you just won't understand. Glad it works for you like it does. I prefer to fly a plane the way I like.
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As do I.

Part of the confusion I have is that the first post of yours I quoted you’re talking about yourself. Then you bring up others, and how they’re unsafe and are going to have an accident. My point is that G1000 or iPad doesn’t matter, those guys are going to have an accident either way.

The information is the same, just different ways to access it. Neither is “unsafe”.
 
@mondtster oh, I see. No, I didn't mean it like "if you don't do it my way you're unsafe." I meant it as "I've had 2 situations involving...and that is why I do what I do."
 
I have a fully G3x set up - I still use my iPad for stuff. That said, I don't use my iPad in flight for much more than copying clearances and ATIS.
 
Another good thing about the iPad is that new ideas and concepts can be implemented much more quickly and for lower cost, compared with certified panel-mount devices - through evolution of the apps I use today, and through new apps which will be developed over the next years. I really see the iPad and panel-mount avionics as complements, not rivals.

- Martin
 
I use charts on the MFD and my phone with WingX as a back up. Occasionally I’ll bring my iPad but I try to carry as little stuff as I can.
 
I have 3 Dynon screens... (2) 10" and (1) 7" in the middle. And I still bought a dedicated ipad for Foreflight.
I plan at home. I am fairly new at cross country flying so I take my time and adjust the trips right up to the time of leaving the house for the airport due to weather, etc. I can do all of this (which is fun btw) and then when I get to the plane I merely upload it to the Dynons which takes a few seconds. While flying, I plug the charge cord into the ipad and set it down on the seat next to me if I am alone, or, on the shelf if I have a passenger. Basically, my ipad is a portable, electronic Sectional Chart. I realize all of the glass sounds like overkill, but it works for me and keeps me safer from a planning, weather, traffic, runway/airport orientation, basic airport info, etc. perspective. And yes, if the Dynons fail, I have a backup so at least I can land.
 
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