the original title I swear

Hadley Reinhart

Filing Flight Plan
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Mar 19, 2020
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scratch that, sorry, got an email pointing me to an instructor not too far away. thanks for the help

shorturl.at/bxDJT
 
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An unpleasant lesson learned when dealing with anything in aviation - never volunteer any information.
From the school's perspective, it's not a FAR or FAA issue, it's their own liability insurance. Unlikely they will be convinced to change, no, you don't want to open an even bigger bag of worms by contacting the FSDO.
I agree with Salty - buy an LSA and find an independent CFI. Your initial insurance on the airplane will be expensive as a student, and the CFI may want to be a named insured on the policy, but it's easier than dealing with the school. Big advantage - the plane will be avaiable any time you want it. Downside - insurance and maintenance is your checkbook.

Next suggestion - stop posting medical info under your own name. Everything here is public and visible to the world.

Another suggestion - if not already, join AOPA and talk to the medical staff about options.
 
Hey, thanks for the help. Sure it sounds dumb in hindsight, but you can see how there shouldn't have been a problem since I really am able to fly sport. It was really unfortunate, and I just didn't think, going into this for the first time, that this would've happened. I was only worried about the FAA, I never would've guessed I had to watch out for a school full of nice (they really were) people to **** me over. Seriously, though, thank you for taking a moment to type that, it really adds something...

I don't blame them, they will be held liable if something happens while you are flying their aircraft. If you want to fly you should buy your own LSA and have at it. As to whether you are legal or not, I can't say. Hopefully one of our AMEs will chime in.
 
I didn't read the entire original message but I didn't see any discussion of 14 CFR 61.53(b).
I didn't read the whole thing either, but in the first paragraph, third sentence, I see the following: "they think I'd be breaking the regulation about having knowledge of a medical condition that would make me unable to safely operate an LSA."
 
I understand it from that business perspective. I don't take it personally even though it created quite the dilemma for me. If I hadn't mentioned it, then how would they have known? If there WAS an incident for some reason, would their insurance get access to medical records? I just think they have students there that could be called just as much of a risk if we're assuming good health and just considering skill and carefulness throughout the student pilot path. The instructor was pleased, I did a takeoff and the whole flight besides landing - not to pat myself on the back too much but just to help that point when comparing to other students.

I'm not an expert here, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But there have been instances where pilots with mental illness have had issues and caused accidents. There is also the issue of medications, I believe most, if not all of the meds for bi polar are disqualifying. There are docs who monitor this forum to help pilots out with issues like this, hopefully one will chime in. But the fact that the school called the FSDO and got a no for your situation does not bode well for your being legal to fly sport.

When you sign the medical application you specifically give the FAA access to your medical records should they decide to search them. I don't know what the sport license is like, but I assume there is similar verbiage when you sign the forms.

The problem arises if you have an issue like a crash, or God forbid someone dies, then you open your estate up to liability.
 
I had casually asked an instructor (unfamiliar with the sport route it turns out) if they thought I could get a medical if I have a past bipolar diagnosis. I thought there was nothing to lose because I know I can fly sport, and I might gain a little perspective on the possibilities of getting a medical. Long story short they contacted the owner, and I was later kindly told they can't have me because they think I'd be breaking the regulation about having knowledge of a medical condition that would make me unable to safely operate an LSA. They also cited insurance and liability coverage reasons.

This isn't being posted because I need help determining if I am eligible, I know I am eligible. The relevant portions of the FAR/AIM say a driver's license may be used, and the only "problem" I've encountered (with regard to operating as a sport pilot with a driver's license) is that exact part about having knowledge of a medical condition. The FAA has pages saying to consult one's PRIVATE physician if one needs help determining if they would be safe to fly. I can't link anything yet because this is my first post. My doctor said I'm fine by the way.

So that's enough on that, because I know the rules, and so do you (if you're gonna reply, hopefully). I am looking for advice on what to do, because this is the only school remotely near me that has an LSA. They either mistakenly rejected me because they pathetically don't know the rules or they are just being extra, extra cautious. I think they know better and are trying to protect the business, since they cited insurance reasons. But one extra bad thing (with regard to their mind being swayed) was they called an agent from FSDO and discussed a fictional scenario (to keep me anonymous) about someone with bipolar trying to procure a SPL. The agent simply pointed to the exact same thing I point to when I say I can fly (61.301, section B, paragraph 4). Like I said, the only thing in that section that is (apparently) preventing me from flying, according to them, is knowing of a medical condition.

The school doesn't understand that if someone at FSDO is called about about this scenario, of course they are going to assume the person with the bipolar is untreated and just point to the above from the FAR/AIM. The agent said nothing else. They point to that and to the school that means I am unable to fly. The agent is obviously not going to encourage the school to let me fly, because that puts his job at risk a little bit if he goes on record saying that and then something happened. But still, nonetheless the agent said nothing else except for referencing the FAR/AIM. I am sick of these people covering their asses and not caring about the individual at hand.

They don't care or have enough time to care about seeing if said person actually is fine, they just make up that they are not to simplify sh*t and move on with more important matters. The instructor flew with me before the call to FSDO was made. He said he would fly with me based on how fine I seem and how well I did, but he doesn't wanna risk any of his certificates/ratings and $100,000 invested. That is very cautious, but in their eyes it is just the decision that has to be made. Maybe he should've researched the matter more first, but okay.

At first, I was surprised that I was wrong. Then I spent two weeks researching everything possible, consulting lawyers, airline pilots, recreational pilots, etc., and just studying/rereading the law on it over and over making damn sure I knew what was correct. I wanted to be right, but I much more wanted to prove myself wrong if I was. I've always been about knowing the truth versus lying to myself to be happier or whatever. I'm positive if I go somewhere else and shut the hell up there wouldn't be a problem. I bet tons of (sport) schools would have me even if I did mention the diagnosis. I'd sure hope most flight schools are more educated on the topic. This one offered everything a school could offer, and sport was kind of just an extra thing they offered. Schools with more LSAs and sport instructors probably wouldn't have done this.

Regardless this school made their decision, and I very boldly but confidently claim they are wrong about me being able to fly. They are full of sh*t or embarrassingly uneducated on the topic. They are legally allowed to reject a customer like that I suppose, citing what they did cite, so what the hell do I do? Do I write a well written, professional email (not cursing like I am here haha) citing everything I can, using a letter from my doctor, etc., to try to convince them to have me again? I have contacted all the instructors within two hours of me, and I have had zero luck. Trying to fly sport has proven tough because of availability, but if I just kept my f*cking mouth shut in the first place there would have been no problem at that school, ever. What a world where an honest person like myself gets conditioned to not be honest because of the fear.

One young instructor around my age that I did the intro flight with said I can fly sport when I mentioned the diagnosis. He has the least authority there compared to the senior instructors that told the owner about my situation, so he probably doesn't have enough power to persuade them. I am at a loss, and my only option is to temporarily move to a different state, it seems. To just be extra clear (...and redundant), the FAA has not rejected me, just the school. The FAA can NOT override self-certification and private physician consultation when using a driver's license as a medical for sport flying, so long as the person in question has not been rejected a medical. They DO make it difficult to know that, surprise surprise (I mean in my case when you have a medical condition/diagnosis that is NORMALLY disqualifying for higher certificates). But yeah, it's just that school, as the title says.

I very greatly appreciate any advice on what to do, it helps me immensely. I'm kind of scared to take the school's advice and call FSDO or and AME about this. I would call if I wanted a medical, but I decided I'm not going to try to get one. I'm really not wanting to disclose this information to anyone else because look how that worked out so far. I don't wanna lose more control by potentially telling someone else that's unhelpful and judgmental but with more authority. Another instructor also advised me to just keep it a secret because of how these ignorant people view it. I'm afraid most people working for the FAA are old-timers with that one size fits all approach to mental illnesses. I just don't wanna try calling and f*ck myself over. I mean, if I applied for a third class medical I would definitely end up not being able to do sport when that got rejected. So I'm just really stuck and don't want to move just yet, ya know? I accepted I can't do this for a living and have been able to be fine with just flying sport, but now I'm having problems doing even that. My life is being shattered because this has always been my number one thing I've wanted to do, and I couldn't do it in the past (before the diagnosis) because of money. Now I can, except apparently not (yet), still.

OP, TLDR but from skimming it over, Have a long conversation with your Mental Health Doctor. The FAA is stuck in the 1950’s with regard to psychiatric ailments, that’s no secret. However understand that flying is a grave responsibility and unlike driving you can’t just pull over to the side of the road if your in distress.

However if you and your doctor think it’s ok, you accept the very real and unique risk you could face, and if you are component enough to not endanger anyone else, than yes sport pilot is an option.

However @kgruber is right, we are living in a don’t ask don’t tell era of flight with regards to this, and it’s likely best to delay your instruction plans until you find another LSA school.

Please be safe if you do decide to go forward with it, I’m in a similar boat to you and there are many other pilots in the shadows and we don’t want some guy who had a bad day to ruin it for everyone else.

Good luck-Mat
 
When you sign the medical application you specifically give the FAA access to your medical records should they decide to search them. I don't know what the sport license is like, but I assume there is similar verbiage when you sign the forms.

Really? I couldn’t find anywhere on the form where it says you’re giving them access to your medical records. Can you show us where?
 
Really? I couldn’t find anywhere on the form where it says you’re giving them access to your medical records. Can you show us where?

You know what, I just looked the one I signed and it says nothing about accessing medical records. But, search medical records here. I'm pretty sure the FAA can access your records if they need to, I remember one of the docs saying that here. Could be wrong though.
 
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