sarangan
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2008
- Messages
- 1,896
- Display Name
Display name:
Andrew, CFI-I
Podunk traffic this is auburn color Cessna with fuschia trim, and the pilot is wearing a brown jacket.
CTAF use of callsign
- Thread starter Brad W
- Start date
Podunk traffic this is auburn color Cessna with fuschia trim, and the pilot is wearing a brown jacket.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
And I had a latte grande at Starbucks, so I'm coming in hot!
Brad Z
Final Approach
I kinda like how Canada does it when checking into Mandatory Frequency (MF) airports, where it seems common to report one’s position in terms of how many minutes out, rather than miles out.
Tarheelpilot
Final Approach
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2010
- Messages
- 7,385
- Location
- North Carolina once again.
- Display Name
Display name:
Tarheelpilot
it wasn’t meant to be personal but you’re welcome I guess.
DFH65
En-Route
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2013
- Messages
- 2,609
- Display Name
Display name:
DFH65
Did you say something?
Yesterday went for a little over 2 hour flight hitting up some airports I have never been to. Get to one that is busy for a fairly rural area and at one point a guy flying 747 patterns in a 172 comes on and says to another guy in the pattern don't turn crosswind till I tell you to .
If he was talking to me I would have got on and said hey mr. controller what's my squawk code.
gkainz
Final Approach
If it really was a mute point, nobody would be talking and everybody might be listening, unless it all falls on deaf ears ...
It all might be moot, though?
James331
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2014
- Messages
- 20,309
- Display Name
Display name:
James331
If it really was a mute point, nobody would be talking and everybody might be listening, unless it all falls on deaf ears ...
It all might be moot, though?
wilkersk
Pattern Altitude
The point is seeing colors or numbers is not important. What is important is that 1- others have some idea of what kind of aircraft, some idea of where it is, and what that pilot's intentions are. AND 2- the FCC regulations regarding radio station ID requirements are complied with.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
FCC? Are they still a thing?
wilkersk
Pattern Altitude
Start cranking out a few watts of noise over the VHF Airband freqs and see if they come looking for you.
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
Hmmm, some would consider my radio transmissions a few watts of noise, especially some here, lol.
bflynn
Final Approach
Disagree about numbers. They help me form a mental picture. If I hear "skyhawk on downwind" and 15 seconds later hear "skyhawk turning base", is that one airplane or two?
James331
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2014
- Messages
- 20,309
- Display Name
Display name:
James331
Do it next to Denny’s and you’ll see it clear out as they all squeak their walkers away for a “fox hunt” lol
Is there any case someone can cite for the FCC going after a pilot for incorrect lingo?
OMG! You know about that? That was me in the '70s!
I don't know about the FCC and "incorrect lingo," but I know of several prosecutions of really bad things being transmitted over Aviation AM frequencies.
Ravioli
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2014
- Messages
- 8,022
- Location
- Somewhere else
- Display Name
Display name:
Unwanted Guest - Perma-ban Pending
Tarheelpilot
Final Approach
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2010
- Messages
- 7,385
- Location
- North Carolina once again.
- Display Name
Display name:
Tarheelpilot
That was a great show.
Puckdropper
Filing Flight Plan
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2019
- Messages
- 4
- Display Name
Display name:
Puckdropper
Your tail number comes in handy when I'm sitting at the hold short line. If a different plane lands than the one I'm hearing, I had better wait a bit more.
cowman
Final Approach
I'm just happy when other pilots communicate their position and intentions clearly and concisely. I just don't want to hit anyone or be hit which is the whole point.
Howard Wilson
Line Up and Wait
From experience Parrakeet sounds like Cherokee... So now it's silver and red biplane.
Brad W
Pattern Altitude
Funny this thread came back up.... yesterday evening I was listing to one of those Wings program FAA safety programs.... the presenter talking about patterns at uncontrolled airports with gyros in the mix...he kept using the terminology such as "green gyro turning left base for 13 at 500 ft".... thought of this thread and the "color" discussion.
Juliet Hotel
En-Route
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2018
- Messages
- 2,634
- Display Name
Display name:
Juliet Hotel
I want to know type and that's about it. Identifying yourself as 'Cessna' or 'Cessna 12 uniform' doesn't tell anyone whether they're looking for a high wing or a low wing or single or a twin or a jet. Identifying yourself as 'Skyhawk' or 'Cessna 310' or 'Caravan' gives a lot more information about the shape of the plane and the speed of the plane while taking up very little time on the frequency. I could care less about your tail number most of the time. I just want to know what you look like and where you are and what you intend to do.
Even when there are 3 different skyhawks in the pattern at the same time, I don't care much about tail numbers. Chances are the 3 pilots will all sound different enough that I'll be able to tell them apart without having to keep track of tail numbers.
Even when there are 3 different skyhawks in the pattern at the same time, I don't care much about tail numbers. Chances are the 3 pilots will all sound different enough that I'll be able to tell them apart without having to keep track of tail numbers.
kgruber
Final Approach
Nope. I was originated by FAA airshow controllers at Oshkosh, Arlington etc.
Been a lurker, but just wanted to add my two cents...
Just because you don’t hear anyone on your initial call doesn’t mean no one is around. If I check in after your initial call, I wouldn’t know you’re there. So I would recommend making all calls as it helps another pilot who checks in later to know your position in the area. Another reason ADS-B is so awesome today for traffic awareness.
Brad Z
Final Approach
Considering how maligned the "any traffic...please advise" phraseology is, I suspect ground pounder was being sarcastic in his statement.
Read between the lines... it was a joke and not meant literally.
Adam Weiss
Pre-takeoff checklist
^ This
Jmcmanna
Pre-takeoff checklist
I reach out sometimes “hey 35G where are you now on that approach?” It might be because I am an ATC, but hearing a callsign and position helps me visualize where an aircraft is, and I can communicate directly with them. If someone asks “where is the Arrow at?” I have to wonder if they are talking about me. If someone says “hey 1DB, where you at?” I know they are asking why it’s taking me so long to fly this approach since I called 10 miles out 5 minutes ago.
Larry Vrooman
Pre-takeoff checklist
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2020
- Messages
- 158
- Display Name
Display name:
N5168T
In the distant past I was taught to keep things as concise as possible, while still conveying all the necessary information.
For example I had an instructor who was very entertaining when he'd rant about pilots calling a tower and including extra verbage like "with you on 118.3". He'd point out that the tower could probably figure out their own frequency, and the "with you" was just additional clutter on the frequency on busy days. The same thing applied to Unicom/CTAF communications.
Similarly, the FCC requirement for using a full number (minus the N) all the time after initial contact, unless an abbreviated number was initiated by a ground station was, practically speaking, considered overkill that just added unnecessary clutter on the frequency. The exception here was if there were two aircraft on frequency with very similar call signs, where confusion was possible.
Coming back into aviation after a lapse the primary difference in CTAF communications seems to be repeating the location at that the end. It adds clutter, but it also seems to be very useful, especially here on the east coast where you often have airfields bunched close together to the point that you have multiple fields using the same frequency close enough together that you'll hear the transmissions of aircraft inbound to or in the pattern at multiple airfields. I've noted ending with the location is useful as I hear pilots who do not use the location at the end. Add some some static and/or fast speech, and/or not quite hitting the PTT soon enough, and/or just not processing the first couple words and you won't hear the location on the front end, and end up wondering "where is he at, and does this affect me?"
In that regard, this makes sense for initial contact:
"South Oaks Traffic, Citabria 5168 Tango 3 miles south inbound for landing, South Oaks"
followed by;
"South Oaks Traffic, Citabria 68 Tango downwind 25, South Oaks"
FCC requirements aside, I'm just not seeing much utility with a full call sign on the subsequent contacts, at least at a small non tower controlled airfield when you have 2 or 3 fields sharing the same CTAF. If you do have a few planes in the pattern and a few more planes on the same frequency at one or more nearby fields, the frequency can get congested and brevity can be important.
I do however feel that something like "South Oaks Traffic, Supercub right base for 25, South Oaks" can cause confusion, especially given the number of Supercub and Supercub like aircraft that routinely use the field, so I'm an advocate for type and last 3 letters after initial contact.
There can also clearly be way too much communication. The other evening we were on a local flight and a pilot on 122.8 notified God and everyone he was doing aerial photography 4 miles east of Pitt-Greenville airport. He continued to do so every couple minutes, each time with a long rambling narrative of exactly where he was at and what he was doing, plugging up the CTAF frequency at PGV, MCZ and 05N. I just wanted him to shut up.
For example I had an instructor who was very entertaining when he'd rant about pilots calling a tower and including extra verbage like "with you on 118.3". He'd point out that the tower could probably figure out their own frequency, and the "with you" was just additional clutter on the frequency on busy days. The same thing applied to Unicom/CTAF communications.
Similarly, the FCC requirement for using a full number (minus the N) all the time after initial contact, unless an abbreviated number was initiated by a ground station was, practically speaking, considered overkill that just added unnecessary clutter on the frequency. The exception here was if there were two aircraft on frequency with very similar call signs, where confusion was possible.
Coming back into aviation after a lapse the primary difference in CTAF communications seems to be repeating the location at that the end. It adds clutter, but it also seems to be very useful, especially here on the east coast where you often have airfields bunched close together to the point that you have multiple fields using the same frequency close enough together that you'll hear the transmissions of aircraft inbound to or in the pattern at multiple airfields. I've noted ending with the location is useful as I hear pilots who do not use the location at the end. Add some some static and/or fast speech, and/or not quite hitting the PTT soon enough, and/or just not processing the first couple words and you won't hear the location on the front end, and end up wondering "where is he at, and does this affect me?"
In that regard, this makes sense for initial contact:
"South Oaks Traffic, Citabria 5168 Tango 3 miles south inbound for landing, South Oaks"
followed by;
"South Oaks Traffic, Citabria 68 Tango downwind 25, South Oaks"
FCC requirements aside, I'm just not seeing much utility with a full call sign on the subsequent contacts, at least at a small non tower controlled airfield when you have 2 or 3 fields sharing the same CTAF. If you do have a few planes in the pattern and a few more planes on the same frequency at one or more nearby fields, the frequency can get congested and brevity can be important.
I do however feel that something like "South Oaks Traffic, Supercub right base for 25, South Oaks" can cause confusion, especially given the number of Supercub and Supercub like aircraft that routinely use the field, so I'm an advocate for type and last 3 letters after initial contact.
There can also clearly be way too much communication. The other evening we were on a local flight and a pilot on 122.8 notified God and everyone he was doing aerial photography 4 miles east of Pitt-Greenville airport. He continued to do so every couple minutes, each time with a long rambling narrative of exactly where he was at and what he was doing, plugging up the CTAF frequency at PGV, MCZ and 05N. I just wanted him to shut up.
John Collins
En-Route
Self announcing on the CTAF is not the same as communication to ATC and there is absolutely no need to use a full call sign. I am not likely to remember the abbreviated call sign much less the full call sign. To me, you are Cessna on the ILS or Bonanza turning downwind.
40YearDream
Pre-takeoff checklist
Given the muffled and / or mostly noise transmissions from a lot of ga aircraft, you could probably announce any old way you want, and nobody would be able to tell the difference. Heard a really bad one this past Friday, all I got was “helicopter” and the airport at the end - out of a 45 second transmission. The instructor beside me didn’t get any more, even with his fancy headset.