Ethiopia publishes interim MAX 8 crash report

Link doesn't work for me.

Who is responsible fro requiring crew training?
How many times did the crew disable, then re-enable the MCAS?
 
I guess I’m reminded to not be screwing with the autopilot. Everything off, wings level climb away from the ground, sort the rest out once we get 5000’+ AGL.
 
Domenick said:
Link doesn't work for me.

Who is responsible fro requiring crew training?
How many times did the crew disable, then re-enable the MCAS?
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In those words, none. But there was more going on here than the MCAS just pushing the plane into the ground. The pilot's instrumentation was also reflecting the bogus readings causing the improper AOA, airspeed, and altitude to be displayed as well as corrupting the displayed operational speed markings and other erroneous warnings. Two minutes into the the flight the pilot finally disconnects the stabilizer trim (as the MCAS had been countermanding his manual trim inputs, it continued to try to do this but such were thwarted by the trim disconnect). The pilots then attempted to manhandle the untrimmed aircraft into a sensible flight regime. Erroneous speed indicators (including the overspeed clacker) throughout this sequence. Level flight required 94 hounds of force on the yoke. A bit over a minute later they turned the trim back on and the thing again started commanding nose down trim.
 
sourdough44 said:
I guess I’m reminded to not be screwing with the autopilot. Everything off, wings level climb away from the ground, sort the rest out once we get 5000’+ AGL.
Click to expand...
Except for the autopilot wasn't the problem. The MCAS, which is literally a software program to drive the electric trim, is independent of the autopilot. The airplane was fighting with them while the autopilot was off.
All they had to do was turn the electric trim off and FLY THE PLANE, which many foreign airlines have problems with.
Yes, the software design was flawed (in as much as there was a single point of failure), but these accidents land squarely on the training and pilots.
Had this problem happened to an American carrier, the result would have been vastly different.
 
mwagg737 said:
Had this problem happened to an American carrier, the result would have been vastly different.
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I wouldn't be too sure about that. I got some second-hand information (friend of a friend type thing) from someone who was somewhat involved with this for an airline that operated the Max 8 and said that the sim sessions after the fact were pretty dismal. And this was for well trained US pilots who knew what they were going in to face.

That's kind of echoed by Sully's sudden 180 on these accidents. Before he observed the simulator sessions, he was beating the "third world airline pilots" drum pretty hard.

Then...

"Even knowing what was going to happen, I could see how crews could have run out of time and altitude before they could have solved the problems,"

(Sullenberger) and (APA President) Carey dismissed suggestions that the crashes could not have happened in the U.S., where pilots are required to have a lot of experience and more rigorous training before flying commercial airliners.

"Some (U.S.) crews would have recognized it in time to recover, but some would not have," Carey testified. Sullenberger agreed, saying it's unlikely that more experienced pilots would have had different outcomes

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/19/7342...aying-737-max-should-never-have-been-approved

For what it's worth, I heard that multiple US crews crashed the sim faced with the MCAS scenario as presented, again, knowing they were going in to face an MCAS problem.
 
mwagg737 said:
Except for the autopilot wasn't the problem. The MCAS, which is literally a software program to drive the electric trim, is independent of the autopilot. The airplane was fighting with them while the autopilot was off.
All they had to do was turn the electric trim off and FLY THE PLANE, which many foreign airlines have problems with.
Click to expand...
Maybe flying the plane by hand using 90 pounds of control force while your ASI, altimeter, and other flight displays are giving wildly inaccurate information is not a problem for you, but it's not isolated to "third world airline" pilots.
 
(Sullenberger) and (APA President) Carey dismissed suggestions that the crashes could not have happened in the U.S., where pilots are required to have a lot of experience and more rigorous training before flying commercial airliners.
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Yeah. let me know about the Colgan pilots and their passengers in a smoking hole in Buffalo because they're US-based training didn't teach them that the answer to a stall is to lower AOA. If Sully actually said that (which I doubt because I've talked to the man and he is way more realistic than that), he's deluded.
 
flyingron said:
Yeah. let me know about the Colgan pilots and their passengers in a smoking hole in Buffalo because they're US-based training didn't teach them that the answer to a stall is to lower AOA. If Sully actually said that (which I doubt because I've talked to the man and he is way more realistic than that), he's deluded.
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I think you should read the post a little closer.
 
Just a reminder. The plane didn’t lift off the runway at 400+kts with almost full nose down trim. Things went to chit incrementally. During that time is when the trend should of been stopped, then reversed.

Flaps out, no MCAS. I doubt they did a no flaps takeoff.
 
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