My 1st and preferably the last VFR into IMC

[MauleSkinner]

So, @Mohamed Ahmed , aside from how quickly things can go bad (and what not to post on the internet ), what have you learned? Did you follow the procedures you were taught for inadvertent IMC? Do you think those procedures are going to work in the long term (like a couple of years since you’ve practiced them)?

 

[Mohamed Ahmed]

So, @Mohamed Ahmed , aside from how quickly things can go bad (and what not to post on the internet ), what have you learned? Did you follow the procedures you were taught for inadvertent IMC? Do you think those procedures are going to work in the long term (like a couple of years since you’ve practiced them)?

Hello @MauleSkinner, my 1st instinct as I learned is fly the plane and don’t allow myself to panic. I continued for a few seconds maintaining the current attitude then pulled back the throttle to reduce climbing and start descending. My next action was planned to do 180 and get back to the airport, but CFI pushed yoke quickly so we descended faster than I want to do in IMC. But it’s ok he reacted faster than me.

I definitely learned that cloud base may not always has a clear distinction with horizon. In this incident, it changed from clear to haze to cloud in few seconds. This was new to me, and I didn’t feel that clouds are that close. I think the METAR draw a false picture in my mind that I will expect clouds at 1000 feet later, so also I learned not to blindly trust the METAR. Trust your eyes. Weather is more dynamic than I expected.

Being in clouds is totally different than videos and imagination. I wish during training my CFI did the required time for instruments in real IMC rather than simulating it.

Any advise about better handling for this event is much appreciated...

Thank you
Mohamed

 

[Zeldman]

Hello @MauleSkinner, my 1st instinct as I learned is fly the plane and don’t allow myself to panic. I continued for a few seconds maintaining the current attitude then pulled back the throttle to reduce climbing and start descending. My next action was planned to do 180 and get back to the airport, but CFI pushed yoke quickly so we descended faster than I want to do in IMC. But it’s ok he reacted faster than me.

I definitely learned that cloud base may not always has a clear distinction with horizon. In this incident, it changed from clear to haze to cloud in few seconds. This was new to me, and I didn’t feel that clouds are that close. I think the METAR draw a false picture in my mind that I will expect clouds at 1000 feet later, so also I learned not to blindly trust the METAR. Trust your eyes. Weather is more dynamic than I expected.

Being in clouds is totally different than videos and imagination. I wish during training my CFI did the required time for instruments in real IMC rather than simulating it.

Any advise about better handling for this event is much appreciated...

Thank you
Mohamed

Sounds like you learning. Even if it was not a good experience, it was a good lesson, something you will remember. That what being a student is about.

 

[Dana]

CFI should know better. Maybe not even fly on the day like that. 100h VFR student/ppl? maybe, maybe not depending how often he has been exposed to it. I bet most experienced pilots can't accurately estimate distance to even highly visible clouds, let alone in conditions like this.

I dunno. Without knowing the specifics, I didn't see the video before it was taken down, but sometimes letting a student screw up can drive a lesson home in a way that all the talking and "don't do that" in the world doesn't do. I had a CFI once (not my regular CFI, it was the school's progress check) let me go down a long path of bad decisions that ended up with me pretty shaken and taught me a valuable lesson I'll never forget.

 

[genna]

I dunno. Without knowing the specifics, I didn't see the video before it was taken down, but sometimes letting a student screw up can drive a lesson home in a way that all the talking and "don't do that" in the world doesn't do. I had a CFI once (not my regular CFI, it was the school's progress check) let me go down a long path of bad decisions that ended up with me pretty shaken and taught me a valuable lesson I'll never forget.

A good way of losing your ticket. Flying into imc without IFR flight plan and with a student pilot. ... if on purpose

 

[PaulS]

Pffft, my instructor did this with me (30 years ago, although he did call for a pop up clearance.) He was keeping his mouth shut, like a good instructor in the later stages of training should do. I was pointed straight at a puff of clouds about a couple thousand feet thick and a mile or two in diameter. I kind of froze not knowing if I should go left or right (either would have worked). He finally said "Are you going to do something?" I said "yeah, I'll turn" He said keep going straight I'll get clearance to fly through it. We flew through it, I did ok, but decided I would never let that happen again. Inadvertent VFR into IMC is an emergency and needs to be fixed, preferably before it happens.

 

[MauleSkinner]

A good way of losing your ticket. Flying into imc without IFR flight plan and with a student pilot. ... if on purpose

And if it was intentional (which I doubt), it sounds like the instructor didn’t let it properly play out.

 

[MacFlier]

My first VMC to IMC encounter was planned during my IFR training. Yet I found it disconcerting to lose all references (and I was under the hood...)
Also, I had an AI failure (real one) while in IMC and it made the workload become very heavy...

 

[MauleSkinner]

Also, I had an AI failure (real one) while in IMC and it made the workload become very heavy...

I had an evil CFII...in 40 hours of instrument training, I had the AI for less than 5. My AI failures in real life were non-events.

 

[Pugs]

I had an evil CFII...in 40 hours of instrument training, I had the AI for less than 5. My AI failures in real life were non-events.

Not kidding. When the CFII was in the plane I just assumed 1/2 the panel wasn't going to work.

 

[Half Fast]

Not kidding. When the CFII was in the plane I just assumed 1/2 the panel wasn't going to work.

Statistical correlation demonstrates that CFIs cause instrument failures, cockpit fire, engine failures, thunderstorms, icing conditions, and IMC. Often all on the same flight.

 

[woodchucker]

No. You were not. You were above the base. The METAR does not define your required cloud clearance. Actual distance from the clouds does.

I am certainly not arguing you, but why does the AWOS define visibility for the purposes of taking off VFR if the AWOS is clearly wrong and the pilot is seeing clear and a million? There was a discussion about this in another thread.

 

[smv]

I am certainly not arguing you, but why does the AWOS define visibility for the purposes of taking off VFR if the AWOS is clearly wrong and the pilot is seeing clear and a million? There was a discussion about this in another thread.

The AWOS is only to be used for local field conditions. Once you leave the area of the AWOS's "jurisdiction" it no longer applies. Not to mention the fact that the station could be smack under the only cloud within 100 miles or it could be looking up through the only hole within 100 miles and reporting CAVU when there is an MVFR or IFR ceiling. Either way, it is incumbent upon the PIC to verify the information provided by looking out the window. To blame the AWOS for a pilot's poor ADM and a VFR into IMC excursion is, at best, disingenuous and may be an indication that it is time to either be honestly critical of one's abilities or to pursue a different, ground-based, hobby.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I am certainly not arguing you, but why does the AWOS define visibility for the purposes of taking off VFR if the AWOS is clearly wrong and the pilot is seeing clear and a million? There was a discussion about this in another thread.

Because the FAA said so.

 

[Skyrys62]

Any advise about better handling for this event is much appreciated...

I'm not sure of he situation as I didn't see the video.
Only thing I might add is, if you do happen to get up in the clouds, and stay for a bit, make sure it's safe to descend when you decide to.
Coming off a runway, then getting some distance, turning, etc., can put you in a spot where you might need to avoid obstacles.

Glad to see you learning and not panicking. That's good stuff!

 

[GaryV]

Mohammed:

Thanks for having the courage to post this. Obviously it inspired a lot of discussion among the seasoned members and it may have helped a newer lurker from running into the same problem.

I was also amazed at how different things are in actual IMC than they are in simulated IMC. I didn’t have the experience until I was working on my IFR, but once it happened to me, I noticed that I transition to the instruments much faster than I did under the hood. Quickly switching to, and trusting your instruments, could make a difference on the outcome if it ever happens again.

If your instructor thinks you’re ready, you might talk to him about getting some time in actual IMC.

I’m betting that you’ll be much less likely to have an inadvertent VFR to IMC.

Gary

 

[zaitcev]

You did not SEE with your eyeballs the cloud base approaching?

It can be sudden. That's how my first VFR into IMC happened too, the loss of contact with the ground was abrupt. I was flying under an overcast and in snow. When I decided that snow wasn't ending, and in fact was getting worse, I made a 180. Unfortunately, I sucked at piloting in general and was a little agitated, so my turn was far from perfect and I climbed right into the clouds. It literally took a couple of seconds. I was over a rough terrain, so I was afraid to descend. I used Aspen's red-green GPS map to navigate towards the pass through which I entered and popped out in the open.

My third VFR into IMC was sudden too. Of course I told myself never to fly in a snowstorm again. But conditions were completely different. The overcast was not well defined and I was flying in low visibility for a few minutes over a gradually raising terrain. I made it to 30 nm away from the destination. Then, it was over. The visibility was not sufficient to know about poor conditions ahead, it was grey all around. I immediately made a 180 and escaped, then landed at my alternate that was in the clear. Fortunately, there was no ice.

 

[smv]

It can be sudden.

Yes. Yes, it can. However, if you viewed the OP's video, you would see that even in the video it was painfully obvious they were illegally close to the clouds in the first place and that the conditions were getting worse. This VFR into IMC excursion was nothing more than negligence on the part of the CFI.

 

[ActiveAir]

Good that you are trying to learn, but you are very lucky. This is the stuff that kills people and I am surprised at the other experienced pilots that are making light of it. This is very serious. Don't think that because you and the weak CFI got out of it, that you can be so casual and lucky again. Glad you survived. Get a better CFI. At 100 hours, you should be far more competent and your CFI is apparently.not very competent at getting you there.. Sorry to sound harsh,, but this serious business. Best of luck to you. Fly safe. This business can be very unforgiving, in spite of your lucky experience.