Flight following question

jd21476

jd21476

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jd21476
I normally pick up FF on my flights but they always tend to be from point A to point B and somewhat direct. Tomorrow I am flying A to B but due to airspace restrictions I cannot go direct and have to weave around to the east and the head north. When I ask for flight following do I request from A to B via point C and D or not?
 
Sort of like departing Manassas Virginia headed northbound. You can request to transition the Dulles bravo to the north instead of having to start all the way around to the west and then north. I have honestly never done this. Has anyone successfully asked for this kind of routing from Flight follow?
 
I tried this once....I wanted to fly from central il, to about 20mi south of st Louis and then follow the river north to land at Alton, which is about 10mi n of downtown on the il side. When I requested flight following, I said ALN via (another little airport whose name escapes me). They clarified the name of the waypoint and my initial heading and seemed happy.

When I checked in with st louis approach, they knew I was headed to alton, but had no idea of my intention to go south first. I told her what I wanted to do and she said 'no problem, stay clear of the bravo'.

Moral of the story is I don't think FF gets anything other than destination and altitude passed along. Since then I've just given them my destination and told the controller what I'm doing when I deviate from going direct.
 
Flight Following is NOT a flight plan you are restricted to nor can deviate from. Each controller just wants to know what to expect from you if not direct for traffic , handoff planning, and airspace coordination.

Fly where you want, you are VFR...and if they are curious they will ask, otherwise absent specific restrictions VFR route of flight is 100% at pilots discretion.

You may get asked "say route of flight"...again, they just want an idea of where you are going...not ABC to XYZ via DEF VOR then around HIJ in a long winded diatribe of fixes..."Looping East of XYZ then northbound" is what they are looking for so they can plan ahead...if they even inquire.
 
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“N123 is looking for flight following A to C via B 3500”
 
You’re fine with just letting them know the destination to start and then letting them know you’re intended route on 1st contact. Along the way, another controller may ask for your route again if C and D are really out of the way of your destination but it’s not really a problem to not go direct as long as they know what you’re doing.
 
I use FF from time to time with "I want to fly around the city for a while and would appreciate advisories", or, I'll be doing some airwork between 4000' and 2500' feet in this area."
 
If it’s a long flight then sure, tell them your route of flight to the destination. When they type you into the NAS computer, it uses a complex set of algorithms to determine who to send an enroute strip to. If you only gave direct, there might be an intermediate controller who didn’t get a strip because you’re not shown as penetrating their airspace. Therefore not only no strip, but the transferring controller can’t flash (handoff) you to that intermediate controller.

It’s not that big of a deal though. It takes the transferring facility all of a minute to amend your present position direct your destination and generate a strip to the receiving controller. Still, if they’re busy, it might create a problem.
 
Pretty much anywhere in CA, they don't seem to care about the "via." When I got FF up in Oregon and Washington, they asked about routing.
 
Ask for it from A to B as usual. When you get handed off to departure they will ask you your route intentions due to the airspace restrictions. Then you tell them, and they say “roger” or will tell you to use another route and the reason for it. Since there is a lot of military airspace, jump zones and fire TFRs(usually know this ahead of time) in my area, if flying VFR I always ask from point to point and ATC let me know if I need to deviate without fail. Another great reason to get FF all the time. Of course, permanently restricted airspace I always avoid anyway.

You can always tell them your exact route waypoints. Doesn’t hurt but if you don’t they always ask if the see you headed somewhere not direct from A to B.
 
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It’s often a good idea to let ATC know where you’re heading. On Tuesday I left Inyokern heading back to San Luis Obispo, but first headed south to avoid getting beat up by the winds over the mountains. After about 20 miles ATC queried my destination since it didn’t look like I was heading in the right direction.

i’ve also had them ask about my intentions when I was headed directly towards a mountain peak or a restricted area. I knew that I was going to fly around it but they saw my track heading right towards it and just wanted to make sure that I was aware.

So if you’re doing something that is unexpected it’s probably not a bad idea to let a ATC know.
 
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Geosync said:
Another great reason to get FF all the time. Of course, permanently restricted airspace I always avoid anyway.
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Thread drift but that is another great reason to use FF...a lot of charted R airspace is not actually restricted 24/7. There are quite a few that I fly though that have effective hours and sometimes just based on use.

"Approach, is R-1234 Hot?"..."Negative, R-1234 is cold"...annnnnnnd fly right through.
 
I have always (since my student days 30 years ago) just mentioned my destination on first contact. When speaking to a controller for a specific phase of flight, I have regularly mentioned a deviation from straight line. For example, on a flight west into the mountains from Denver, I would let them know which pass I intended to cross. Or, approaching a restricted area later enroute, I would tell ATC I was talking to then that I would pass east of it.

It is being polite. They are nice enough to provide advisories. The least I could do is let them know what I was doing--- in their airspace. But I doubt a controller in Kansas City cares what I am planning to do hours later nearing Chicago, so no, no "via" for me.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I have always (since my student days 30 years ago) just mentioned my destination on first contact. When speaking to a controller for a specific phase of flight, I have regularly mentioned a deviation from straight line. For example, on a flight west into the mountains from Denver, I would let them know which pass I intended to cross. Or, approaching a restricted area later enroute, I would tell ATC I was talking to then that I would pass east of it.

It is being polite. They are nice enough to provide advisories. The least I could do is let them know what I was doing--- in their airspace. But I doubt a controller in Kansas City cares what I am planning to do hours later nearing Chicago, so no, no "via" for me.
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I also let them know when I am climbing or descending. "cirrus xxxx vfr descent, 7500 to 3500" Usually I get something like "cirrus xxxx vfr altitude pilot discretion" but occasionally I'll get a "Cirrus xxxx descend 5500, for traffic " have lower in x miles."
 
Just tell them winnemucca via the east side of the R2502 complex. Definitely ask if it’s hot - about 50% of the time I get to fly right through restricted areas if I ask, especially on weekends (although I think that’s pretty rare for 2502, I have been through nearby 2505, though). Remember you wont get a clearance through a restricted area, but if they tell you it’s “cold” then you can go.
 
I’ve found if I’m deviating around, not on direct to, due to weather or sightseeing, ATC will inquire and a simple explanation suffices.
If I’m following roads over inhospitable terrain from A to B I’ll explain that on my initial call up - sometimes this info doesn’t get transmitted to the next sector though.
 
I used to give “via” information but it usually seemed to be ignored so I stopped doing it. Sometimes they’ll ask and then I’ll tell them.
 
PaulS said:
I also let them know when I am climbing or descending. "cirrus xxxx vfr descent, 7500 to 3500" Usually I get something like "cirrus xxxx vfr altitude pilot discretion" but occasionally I'll get a "Cirrus xxxx descend 5500, for traffic " have lower in x miles."
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Yep.same principled principle.
 
jd21476 said:
I normally pick up FF on my flights but they always tend to be from point A to point B and somewhat direct. Tomorrow I am flying A to B but due to airspace restrictions I cannot go direct and have to weave around to the east and the head north. When I ask for flight following do I request from A to B via point C and D or not?
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You are VFR. Unless otherwise requested, heading and altitude are at your discretion.
 
PaulS said:
I also let them know when I am climbing or descending. "cirrus xxxx vfr descent, 7500 to 3500" Usually I get something like "cirrus xxxx vfr altitude pilot discretion" but occasionally I'll get a "Cirrus xxxx descend 5500, for traffic " have lower in x miles."
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My question is whether a VFR flight receiving flight following in class E airspace has to comply with an ATC instruction like “descend and maintain 5500 for traffic.” To me, VFR flight implies that the pilot chooses his own route and altitude. VFR flight following is just a traffic advisory service and convenient way to ask if the MOA ahead of you is in use and whatnot, not a clearance.
 
iamtheari said:
My question is whether a VFR flight receiving flight following in class E airspace has to comply with an ATC instruction like “descend and maintain 5500 for traffic.” To me, VFR flight implies that the pilot chooses his own route and altitude. VFR flight following is just a traffic advisory service and convenient way to ask if the MOA ahead of you is in use and whatnot, not a clearance.
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It is a verbal contract between you and ATC. They are directing you for the purposes of flight safety at your request. If you do not like what they are telling you to do, simply cancel Flight Following and turn off your radio. If they do not like how you are responding to their directions, they will cancel Flight Following and likely tell you to have a good day.
 
iamtheari said:
My question is whether a VFR flight receiving flight following in class E airspace has to comply with an ATC instruction like “descend and maintain 5500 for traffic.” To me, VFR flight implies that the pilot chooses his own route and altitude. VFR flight following is just a traffic advisory service and convenient way to ask if the MOA ahead of you is in use and whatnot, not a clearance.
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FAR 91.123 (b)
 
luvflyin said:
FAR 91.123 (b)
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Thanks. I had not remembered the language being “in an area in which ATC control is exercised” but that answers my question here. I almost never get VFR flight following. If I want to talk to someone, I go IFR. :)
 
iamtheari said:
Thanks. I had not remembered the language being “in an area in which ATC control is exercised” but that answers my question here. I almost never get VFR flight following. If I want to talk to someone, I go IFR. :)
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Yeah. And it explicitly uses the word ‘instruction,’ not clearance. There have been enforcement actions over this even though the instruction was not necessarily appropriate on the Controllers part.
 
iamtheari said:
My question is whether a VFR flight receiving flight following in class E airspace has to comply with an ATC instruction like “descend and maintain 5500 for traffic.” To me, VFR flight implies that the pilot chooses his own route and altitude. VFR flight following is just a traffic advisory service and convenient way to ask if the MOA ahead of you is in use and whatnot, not a clearance.
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Every time it's happened to me, it's been for traffic. And that traffic on a few occasions has been traveling 200+ knots. So if they tell you to descend to 4500 instead of 2000, that's an instruction worth following. IMHO.
 
smv said:
It is a verbal contract between you and ATC. They are directing you for the purposes of flight safety at your request. If you do not like what they are telling you to do, simply cancel Flight Following and turn off your radio. If they do not like how you are responding to their directions, they will cancel Flight Following and likely tell you to have a good day.
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Canceling fight following or turning of your radio does not relieve your obligation to comply with ATC instructions in controlled airspace.
 
Lindberg said:
Canceling fight following or turning of your radio does not relieve your obligation to comply with ATC instructions in controlled airspace.
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Which obligation legally requires me to have, turn on, and/or use a radio in Class E airspace?

o_O
 
smv said:
Which obligation legally requires me to have, turn on, and/or use a radio in Class E airspace?

o_O
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No. But if you were stoopid enuf(not serious here, just illustrating a point) to have had yer radio on and heard the instruction, it's to late, ya gotta comply with it.
 
smv said:
Which obligation legally requires me to have, turn on, and/or use a radio in Class E airspace?

o_O
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Nothing. But that's an entirely different scenario from what you wrote:

If you do not like what they are telling you to do, simply cancel Flight Following and turn off your radio.
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Radar services terminated relieves the pilot of complying with the instruction. You don’t continue on a vector until you run out of gas. Basic radar services (FF) is optional. The controller has no authority to continue to provide that service once the pilot requests termination.
 
Velocity173 said:
Radar services terminated relieves the pilot of complying with the instruction.
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"Resume own navigation," relieves the pilot from complying.
You don’t continue on a vector until you run out of gas.
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Correct. Running out of gas would be an emergency.

But the pilot deciding he doesn't want flight following anymore doesn't mean he can ignore an ATC instruction.
 
Lindberg said:
"Resume own navigation," relieves the pilot from complying.
Correct. Running out of gas would be an emergency.

But the pilot deciding he doesn't want flight following anymore doesn't mean he can ignore an ATC instruction.
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Resume own navigation isn’t necessary once you’ve terminated radar service under FF. ATC can’t force you into a service that’s optional and once you’ve terminated that service.

Once going around ATL, the controller was giving me vectors for traffic that weren’t necessary. I terminated FF. She never gave “resume own navigation” with the “radar services terminated, sqk VFR, frequency change approved.” So how far do I have to go on that vector before I can resume my own nav to my destination?
 
Lindberg said:
Nothing. But that's an entirely different scenario from what you wrote:
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No it is not. It is exactly the scenario. If I am not required to even have a radio they can issue all the instructions they want. It is called "VFR Advisories" for a reason.
 
smv said:
Which obligation legally requires me to have, turn on, and/or use a radio in Class E airspace?

o_O
Click to expand...
If you are talking about simply turning off your radio while you are receiving advisories, it would be fun to watch.
 
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