Impossible turn at 500ft

Its not a 180 degrees... maybe 180ish for a parallel runway but at 180 you are not aligned with the runway you really have to do a 270 then an opposite 90 technically.

I like to think of it as more of a procedure turn. I'm going to turn into the wind (to minimize the lateral offset) for 180 degrees, plus what I need to get me pointed at a point a few hundred feet short of my intended touch down point (maybe 240 degrees total) and then turn back that 30 degrees or so on final to line up on the runway.

So it's about 270 degrees total, not 270 plus 90.
 
I like to think of it as more of a procedure turn. I'm going to turn into the wind (to minimize the lateral offset) for 180 degrees, plus what I need to get me pointed at a point a few hundred feet short of my intended touch down point (maybe 240 degrees total) and then turn back that 30 degrees or so on final to line up on the runway.

So it's about 270 degrees total, not 270 plus 90.

Yea that makes more sense... still more than just a 180, but I completely follow ya
 
I brief every takeoff. Lately, the brief from my home airport is "if the engine quits it's going to hurt, a lot". We takes our chances. No one ever said this was safe, except perhaps horribly misinformed idiots.

Our home field is an 1800' x 50' grass strip with trees on three sides that extend for about 2000' past the end of the runway to the west, wrap around to the south for a much longer distance and also extend anywhere from 1000' to 2000' to the north.

Departing west bound in something like a 85 hp Champ or even a 100hp Sport Cub, there's anywhere from several to just a few seconds where you don't have the altitude to turn back and make the runway, or the necessary altitude to extend the glide to one of two fields past the trees to the west. In a higher powered, but still short field aircraft like a 150/160 hp Citabria, Super Cub, Carbon Cub, etc, you don't have that same issue due to the higher rate of climb and being able to have enough altitude to give you more options.

The point here being that a better match between aircraft and the home field can sometimes help mitigate some of those "going to hurt a lot" issues.
 
This video has been making the social media circuit. Personally, I find it disturbing and don't recommend that anyone use it as a teaching example. The pilot is clearly flying this seat-of-the-pants and making it up as he goes. There are so many factors involved in a successful turnback, and practically none of them are shown or discussed. Videos like this give the wrong impression. The turnback is a high-precision maneuver with numerous factors many people aren't aware of. Boiling it down to altitude and a quick, steep turn is woefully inadequate.

What could possibly go wrong. https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/73749
 
This video has been making the social media circuit. Personally, I find it disturbing and don't recommend that anyone use it as a teaching example. The pilot is clearly flying this seat-of-the-pants and making it up as he goes. There are so many factors involved in a successful turnback, and practically none of them are shown or discussed. Videos like this give the wrong impression. The turnback is a high-precision maneuver with numerous factors many people aren't aware of. Boiling it down to altitude and a quick, steep turn is woefully inadequate.

Both videos in this thread bother me but I am particularly concerned with the emphasis on getting the aircraft slow and with full flaps out in the second video. Full flaps usually add more drag than lift and don't do good things to the glide ratio. That's true in spades for the large fowler type flaps on many single engine Cessnas.

I'm not a big fan of using flaps unless you actually need them and certainly not when using them is counter productive. If you've got two or three thousand feet of runway available, flaps are not going to be required to land the average GA single (and there's no reason to fly it like a 737), and adding full flaps will reduce the glide ratio significantly and adding any flap at all will have an adverse effect on it. Landing in the trees at a lower full flap airspeed is still landing in the trees - and far worse than safely making the runway if that is possible without flaps in a given scenario. It's even preferable and far more survivable to run off the end of a short runway at low speed after a no flap landing, than it is to come up short and crash at your flaps out stall speed in the trees short of the runway.

Turn rate and radius are important in a turn back to the runway after engine failure, and increasing bank angle and reducing airspeed with increase the rate and reduce the radius of the turn. However, without power, you'll be trading varying amounts of airspeed and altitude to provide the energy needed for that steep turn. In addition, the greater the load factor, the higher the AoA and the greater the induced drag penalty, and that has to be considered in the airspeed versus altitude loss decision. There's a balance in there somewhere, but getting a light single engine aircraft slow and with full flaps out after a 60 degree banked turn isn't it.

For example, if your stall speed is 51 mph and your best rate of climb speed (and best glide speed) is 69 mph, a level 55 degree banked turn gives you a 30% increase in stall speed and brings the 51 mph stall speed up to 66 mph. Based on those numbers and the need to balance the rate and radius of the turn, with altitude loss and best glide speed, I'd stay with a bank angle that does not exceed 55 degrees while maintaining the best glide speed, until I know I have the runway made.
 
Crazy question for aerobatic pilots, but how much altitude is lost doing a “Split-S”? It would be a lot quicker than a 180 turn and some of the speed gained on the downside could be converted back to altitude. I know it’s a stupid question but what do you think?

At 500 ft. you'd split-S into terra-firma. If you have the altitude for a split-S, you have the altitude to simply turn back to the airport and land normally.

Bingo. And if you did a split-S in anything but the most robust acro plane, you'd probably fold the wings up.

I was curious, so I tried it today in my Hatz (though not at 500'!). From a 60kt climb and chop the power, a split-S took 500' and I leveled off at 100kts, though I probably could have pulled it a bit tighter. A steep slipping turn from the same condition took 300' and I completed the turn at 70-80kts. I'm normally at 60kts on final. Of course a draggy biplane picks up a lot less speed in a dive than most other aircraft. But it doesn't have to be "the most robust acro plane", my Hatz is hardly a Pitts, it just needs a plane (and pilot!) that's capable of doing the maneuver without overstressing or overspeeding the plane.
 
One thing for damn sure. I loose the engine on takeoff and the gear stays locked. Flaps stay put. I keep the aircraft clean as I can for as long as I can. I'd rather gear it up on or near a runway than try and land it in the street.
 
One thing for damn sure. I loose the engine on takeoff and the gear stays locked. Flaps stay put. I keep the aircraft clean as I can for as long as I can. I'd rather gear it up on or near a runway than try and land it in the street.

Good observation, but the period punctuated by rotation and gear up is pretty short. The takeoff profile is 2-3 minutes in length and we need to be aware of proper response during all of this period.
 
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