Rented/borrowed car insurance claims

genna

genna

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I think there are a few people here with more knowledge than me on the subject of insurance.

Situation: I rented a car via Turo in California. It got damaged while parked in a hit-and-run accident. Other driver/vehicle is unknown. The damage is significant enough(I’d guess 1000 to 1500) to involve insurance. The car itself has a full coverage via Turo with unknown deductible to me(I will find out what it is). I have my own auto insurance that covers such a claim with pretty low deductible and I’m filing the claim. I expect to be on the hook for the damage.

My insurance adjuster tells me that their coverage is secondary. The car owner suggests that Turo will want their money back, presumably from me if they pay any claim anyway. I suspect that deductible is high enough that Turo will pay nothing anyway.

The question is how do I make my insurance cover this? It seems very odd to me that I would be penalized because the car has its own insurance. I expected my own insurance to protect me(with my deductible) regardless of how the car itself is covered and if the 2 Insurances want to duke it out which is more responsible it’s up to them.

Any suggestions on a course of action from my side?
 
My credit card company suggest they will cover any shortfalls...but it hasn't been tested so who knows what really would happen. Did you pay with a cc?
 
genna said:
I think there are a few people here with more knowledge than me on the subject of insurance.

Situation: I rented a car via Turo in California. It got damaged while parked in a hit-and-run accident. Other driver/vehicle is unknown. The damage is significant enough(I’d guess 1000 to 1500) to involve insurance. The car itself has a full coverage via Turo with unknown deductible to me(I will find out what it is). I have my own auto insurance that covers such a claim with pretty low deductible and I’m filing the claim. I expect to be on the hook for the damage.

My insurance adjuster tells me that their coverage is secondary. The car owner suggests that Turo will want their money back, presumably from me if they pay any claim anyway. I suspect that deductible is high enough that Turo will pay nothing anyway.

The question is how do I make my insurance cover this? It seems very odd to me that I would be penalized because the car has its own insurance. I expected my own insurance to protect me(with my deductible) regardless of how the car itself is covered and if the 2 Insurances want to duke it out which is more responsible it’s up to them.

Any suggestions on a course of action from my side?
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if your policy does cover rental cars, you cannot make your insurance pay. Get out your policy and read it.
 
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The wrinkle I see is whether the car share setup is the same as a "traditional" rental car firm.

I've needed to get my insurance involved with two rentals. One was Avis, the other Hertz. Process was smooth both times. First one I paid nothing. Second I paid my deductible only.
 
I rent vehicles frequently, first thing I would do if you is check with whatever credit card company you used to rent the car. I specifically have the Visa card I do, because it has an amazing amount of travel insurance coverage, which meets my needs. So by simply renting the vehicle on that card, it gives me full coverage.
 
I just went online to see what information they offer. Here are a couple of links:

https://support.turo.com/hc/en-us/articles/203990810-Do-I-need-my-own-insurance-

https://support.turo.com/hc/en-us/articles/203990600-Insurance-and-protection-plan-summary-US

When you say the car is covered through Turo, do you mean the car owner bought the Turo insurance or you bought it as part of the booking? I am guessing the former. If so, then you are probably are not an insured of the Turo coverage. (Although I would want to see all of the paperwork before I would reach a final opinion on that.) The Turo insurance that the owner of the vehicle paid for might want you to reimburse them, but I would think that they would have to prove that the damage was your fault (tort liability) unless you agreed to accept all financial liability for damage to the vehicle (contract liability). Your own coverage probably is secondary to any additional coverage you specifically bought from Turo during the booking (you would need to read the whole policy to know for sure), but if you didn't buy any extra coverage when you booked the car, then your own coverage would be primary as there is nothing else to be secondary to. When your adjuster told you your coverage was secondary, he may have assumed you had purchased extra coverage through Turo.

(disclaimer: This is not a legal opinion that you can rely on, and I am not licensed in California.)
 
Clip4 said:
if your policy does cover rental cars, you cannot make your insurance pay. Get out your policy and read it.
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My policy covers this incident. That’s not the problem. The problem is it comes behind the cars policy. Meaning I may have to pay the car’s deductible rather than mine. This is not in my control and it is likely a lot more expensive

this is info from my adjuster. How accurate it is I have no idea. They have vested interest to not pay
 
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Shuswap BC said:
I rent vehicles frequently, first thing I would do if you is check with whatever credit card company you used to rent the car. I specifically have the Visa card I do, because it has an amazing amount of travel insurance coverage, which meets my needs. So by simply renting the vehicle on that card, it gives me full coverage.
Click to expand...


Yeah. It has the same problem. It’s a secondary coverage.
 
PPC1052 said:
I just went online to see what information they offer. Here are a couple of links:

https://support.turo.com/hc/en-us/articles/203990810-Do-I-need-my-own-insurance-

https://support.turo.com/hc/en-us/articles/203990600-Insurance-and-protection-plan-summary-US

When you say the car is covered through Turo, do you mean the car owner bought the Turo insurance or you bought it as part of the booking? I am guessing the former. If so, then you are probably are not an insured of the Turo coverage. (Although I would want to see all of the paperwork before I would reach a final opinion on that.) The Turo insurance that the owner of the vehicle paid for might want you to reimburse them, but I would think that they would have to prove that the damage was your fault (tort liability) unless you agreed to accept all financial liability for damage to the vehicle (contract liability). Your own coverage probably is secondary to any additional coverage you specifically bought from Turo during the booking (you would need to read the whole policy to know for sure), but if you didn't buy any extra coverage when you booked the car, then your own coverage would be primary as there is nothing else to be secondary to. When your adjuster told you your coverage was secondary, he may have assumed you had purchased extra coverage through Turo.

(disclaimer: This is not a legal opinion that you can rely on, and I am not licensed in California.)
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Yeah. I believe contract liability comes to play here. I declined additional coverage
 
There insurance pays and then yours gets to pick up where it left off...it’s that simple...since it’s in the US your credit card is third in line...I am in insurance and sadly have had two rentals totaled one in Florida and one in France...both while parked...I never buy supplemental insurance it’s not necessary...a little more paperwork and higher deposits but all works out in the end...always retain documents and document everything you can with pictures and police reports as you can.
 
My policy is from Maryland, btw. I expect that I may have to fight my insurance on this. What I’m basically asking is legal doctrine to fight them on. Possibly with help of MD insurance commissioner
 
Have you made a claim with your insurance yet ?
Has your insurance denied said claim yet ?
Has the car owners insurance approached you with a subrogation claim ?
 
genna said:
The problem is it comes behind the cars policy. Meaning I may have to pay the car’s deductible rather than mine. This is not in my control and it is likely a lot more expensive
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What did the rental agreement state? Did you accept any of the insurance coverage options that Turo offers? If you refused them, it’s likely the same as any other car rental company. If you decline all physical damage protection, your out-of-pocket costs will be up to the full value of the vehicle and all related costs, so Turo’s insurance isn’t going to cover it in that case. They will only reimburse the owner and then subrogate you. Remember, the insurance company’s job is to do whatever they can to find a reason not to pay the claim.
 
Turo is not the same as a traditional car rental. Nor is it considered borrowing a car since you paid for it. The term might be something along the lines of car sharing. My auto or credit card auto insurance don't cover Turo at all.
 
Ryanb said:
What did the rental agreement state? Did you accept any of the insurance coverage options that Turo offers? If you refused them, it’s likely the same as any other car rental company. If you decline all physical damage protection, your out-of-pocket costs will be up to the full value of the vehicle and all related costs, so Turo’s insurance isn’t going to cover it in that case. They will only reimburse the owner and then subrogate you. Remember, the insurance company’s job is to do whatever they can to find a reason not to pay the claim.
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With rental companies if waiver is declined, as far as I know, all financial responsibility falls on me and my auto insurance. My insurer is primary and they cannot wiggle their way out of paying out. However, in light of this current situation, this "as far as I know" may need to be scrutinized more closely.

We'll see how this shakes out. I get the feeling that what you are describing here is exactly what's going to happen.

My main issue is with my insurance, not Turo/car's owner. This is my first time using Turo although I've had the app for a while. It was a nice experience(save the damage) actually. Prior to making a reservation I called my auto insurance(Geico) and directly asked them what my coverage was. After figuring out what Turo was(you'd think they would be at least aware of it) and talking to someone more knowledgeable, the response was that I was covered and good to go. This GREATLY affected my decision to rent from Turo and decline their coverage. If I were told that the coverage is secondary, I would almost certainly buy more protection or rent from a traditional rental company.

Now I find that to be at least misleading. And the actual effect of this "coverage" may be me paying entire cost out of pocket. I feel like there is at least some legal questions here. In this case it could be a relatively inexpensive(at least in aviation terms) learning experience. Had this been a serious accident with injuries and real liabilities it would have been devastating.

What exactly is the point of "secondary" insurance if it never pays? I don't get it.
 
An update for those that may be interested:

I tried to have MasterCard to get involved, but after initial indication that they definitely cover Turo and this situation, they eventually declined coverage based on Turo not owning the vehicle.

However, good news. Geico has called me today and apologized for the confusion. They were very sorry that they did not realize that I had declined Turo's coverage and had no coverage with them and that my MD policy covers this incident and thus it becomes primary coverage. As in all the information they already had and I repeatedly stated to the adjuster. They will now pay for the damages. What gives say you? I filed a complaint with MD insurance commissioner.
 
Glad to hear things worked out well for you!
 
genna said:
I tried to have MasterCard to get involved, but after initial indication that they definitely cover Turo and this situation, they eventually declined coverage based on Turo not owning the vehicle.
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Does Turo own any of their rental vehicles? I thought their model was to have other people post up _their_ cars on their site and Turo takes a cut ala AirBnB model? I feel like you could take another bite out of mastercard if you wanted to, although that seems a moot point now.

I suspect the MD insurance regulator becoming involved did more to move things along than any policy language or clearing of misunderstandings.

What a headache.
 
schmookeeg said:
Does Turo own any of their rental vehicles? I thought their model was to have other people post up _their_ cars on their site and Turo takes a cut ala AirBnB model? I feel like you could take another bite out of mastercard if you wanted to, although that seems a moot point now.

I suspect the MD insurance regulator becoming involved did more to move things along than any policy language or clearing of misunderstandings.

What a headache.
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Correct. Turo is like AirBnB. They facilitate renting from “private” individuals. Although in my case this was definitely a commercial entity, employees and all, renting dozens of cars

MC reasoning-that I honestly didn’t really understand-was that because Turo does not own the fleet they “rent”, MC policy doesn’t cover. The point is rather moot now.

Yep regulator definitely woke them up. Of course they already had all the same information prior to complaint. Including a pretty clear language in my policy that covers just this scenario below.


“If your insurance policy includes Collision coverage, then Collision coverage extends to an automobile rented
by you for a period of 30 days or less during the term of the policy or when you rent a peer-to-peer car sharing
passenger car for a period of 30 days or less during the term of the policy. You will still be responsible for your
Collision coverage deductible....”
 
The phone conversation with the Adjuster Supervisor was priceless. I wish I recorded it. A complete 180 from the “senior “ adjuster that was handling the accident before and wouldn’t say much beyond “we’re not paying”

lots of “sorry”, “I apologize “, “we didn’t understand your MD policy”, “we are in CA”, more “sorry”. Basically playing dumb.

I suspect they thought it’d be easy to get away with it. But a $3000 claim payment and withdrawn complaint is a lot less of a headache than dealing with state regulators
 
Geico, yuck.
We have trouble with Geico insurance at work when people damage our stuff. We send a $20,000 bill. Geico always comes back and says, “the driver’s max coverage is $2,000”. We always have to get the lawyers involved.
 
Heftiger said:
Geico, yuck.
We have trouble with Geico insurance at work when people damage our stuff. We send a $20,000 bill. Geico always comes back and says, “the driver’s max coverage is $2,000”. We always have to get the lawyers involved.
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Yeah, I'm highly tempted to change insurance. I had to go to them because my long-time insurer jacked up premium due to my wife's inexperience about 5 years ago. This is not as much of an issue now, but they were still quite a bit cheaper as of a year or so ago than my preferred choice. That insurance would never try to pull a stunt like this.
 
I would be looking for new insurance because Geico will probably refuse to renew you.
 
Heftiger said:
Geico, yuck.
We have trouble with Geico insurance at work when people damage our stuff. We send a $20,000 bill. Geico always comes back and says, “the driver’s max coverage is $2,000”. We always have to get the lawyers involved.
Click to expand...

Another thumbs down for Geico. I was rear ended by a Geico customer in June, and finally received the money from them to pay for the rental car two weeks ago. They always have an excuse when you call about why the claim hasn't been approved. Last call I told them it had been over 6 months since the accident and if the money didn't arrive 15 days after this last call, I was going to lawyer up. The check came on day 13.

Now I have to go after them for the diminished value claim. Yay! Not...
 
Clip4 said:
I would be looking for new insurance because Geico will probably refuse to renew you.
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I doubt it. Firstly, they had just renewed me this month. Although this was prior to them agreeing to pay. Secondly, this is not the first claim I have had with them and I haven't even seen any increase in premium(although this is piling on so-to-speak). Thirdly, I just got an "Accident Forgiveness" from them added in this new renewal. And lastly, I was not at fault with this incident, so them not renewing me may prompt another trip to MD Insurance Administration.

On the other hand, I might just bolt on my own, although now that there IS a recent paid claim, premiums may not be as favorable elsewhere.

I've always hated Geico based solely on stories from friends through the years. Prior to it, I had few other insurers. Progressive was pretty awful too. Immediately before Geico I had State Farm for many years(started as best insurance for motorcycles at the time). I was quite happy with it and it was quite reasonable. Then I got married to an unlicensed person. Once she got her license, SF tippled the premium. Geico(or something similar) was my only reasonable choice. Even now, 4 years since her getting license, SF is still about 2x(EDIT: err. about 40% more, just checked) as much.

Sigh, I guess it makes sense for them to be cheaper if they actively(and often against their own policy wording) try to not pay as much as possible.
 
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genna said:
...Progressive was pretty awful too...
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I'm in the process of shopping insurance. I received a very reasonable quote from Progressive, and I was about to switch. Then my truck got bumped in a parking lot, by a driver with Progressive. After dealing with the adjuster for the past month, I will NOT be switching to Progressive (my story was similar to yours: Progressive said, "Nope nope nope" until I called my state's DIFS, then progressive pretended like they never said "nope").
 
I've been a USAA member literally since birth. Sadly, I've come to the conclusion that "they're great, right up until the point you need them." I've expressed that to them verbatim. Hence I've taken my business elsewhere. At the end of the day, NONE of the insurers want to pay, and it all turns into a headache. So might as well pay the least amount in premiums as possible.
 
We are with Geico and my Wife has had a few accidents that were her fault. They have treated us fair on every one.
 
A couple of years ago, my AAA insurance paid without a problem.
 
State Farm has become the anti Christ.. Progressive ain't much better. Geico has been amazing with my motorcycles but they have increased premiums for the last 3 years, with a new excuse every year. With 7 bikes, that's getting painful. Cars remain the same or drop slightly. On the other hand, they (or the reinsurer) canceled our homeowners after a single claim.
 
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