GTN 650 annunciations

[AlleyCat67]

I have a new GTN 650 installed in my panel, and a question came up... if I were to loose GPS signal (or loss of WAAS capability), is there an obvious announcement on the Display, or is it only through the flashing "message" icon that I'd be notified? After looking through the Pilot's guide, I don't see anything other than a message (via message icon) for GPS integrity.

I can see a situation where I'm on final approach, and I simply don't notice the flashing message icon, and miss that I've lost GPS integrity. Due to airspace, traffic, flight plan changes, timer alerts, etc., the message icon flashes for half the flight, so it's easy to ignore.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

Short of a satisfactory answer, maybe you should either get into the habit of checking messages as part of your scan/checklist, or cease the trigger for some of the other alerts. You don’t want to normalize yourself to alert messages being a nuisance alarm.

Seen the same issues at some chem plants with the control boards and operators that have led to incidents.

 

[eman1200]

pretty sure you'd get a LOI error on the screen

 

[Ravioli]

Seen the same issues at some chem plants with the control boards and operators that have led to incidents.

Amen brother.

I can't tell you often I have people say "I got an error" and I asked, "What did it say?" and they respond "There's an error." Not all information messages are errors, and a great many that are include the solution in the message text.

Ravioli leaves the soapbox.

 

[AlleyCat67]

Short of a satisfactory answer, maybe you should either get into the habit of checking messages as part of your scan/checklist, or cease the trigger for some of the other alerts. You don’t want to normalize yourself to alert messages being a nuisance alarm.

Absolutely agree. Turning off some of the nuisance messaging is on my to-do list.

 

[bnt83]

I have a new GTN 650 installed in my panel, and a question came up... if I were to loose GPS signal (or loss of WAAS capability), is there an obvious announcement on the Display, or is it only through the flashing "message" icon that I'd be notified? After looking through the Pilot's guide, I don't see anything other than a message (via message icon) for GPS integrity.

I can see a situation where I'm on final approach, and I simply don't notice the flashing message icon, and miss that I've lost GPS integrity. Due to airspace, traffic, flight plan changes, timer alerts, etc., the message icon flashes for half the flight, so it's easy to ignore.

Roll airplane outside of hangar.
Turn radios on.
Wait till radios boot and acquire GPS lock
Roll airplane inside hangar and watch GPS.
Turn power off.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

If you have a G5, you’ll get annunciation to check the GTN.


Tom

 

[AlleyCat67]

If you have a G5, you’ll get annunciation to check the GTN.


Tom

Thanks - yes I have dual G5s so that's good to know.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Short of a satisfactory answer, maybe you should either get into the habit of checking messages as part of your scan/checklist, or cease the trigger for some of the other alerts. You don’t want to normalize yourself to alert messages being a nuisance alarm.

Seen the same issues at some chem plants with the control boards and operators that have led to incidents.

Absolutely! Complete agreement on this point. When I fly with a pilot and see a message flashing, I start counting the seconds until they check it.

Basically, letting it go involves the same psychology as those gear-up landings with the gear warning blaring in the background.

It's interesting that the most controversial thing the FAA did in the private ACS - the "new" slow flight - was specifically designed to fight normalization of warnings but has come in for the most criticism.

 

[Fracpilot]

I have a new GTN 650 installed in my panel, and a question came up... if I were to loose GPS signal (or loss of WAAS capability), is there an obvious announcement on the Display, or is it only through the flashing "message" icon that I'd be notified? After looking through the Pilot's guide, I don't see anything other than a message (via message icon) for GPS integrity.

I can see a situation where I'm on final approach, and I simply don't notice the flashing message icon, and miss that I've lost GPS integrity. Due to airspace, traffic, flight plan changes, timer alerts, etc., the message icon flashes for half the flight, so it's easy to ignore.

You will see warning on both G5’s. You’ll also see messages and warnings on the bottom row of the GTN650.

This is what it looks like:

 

[chemgeek]

Same for the GNS-430 and G5s.

BTW there ARE cryptic failure modes. At one point my GNS box refused to arm LPV approaches. It would give me a message saying it was defaulting to LNAV mode. At first, I thought maybe it was some sort of GPS service interference or failure, but it happened everywhere on every LPV approach. When I sent it in for examination, Garmin discovered the vertical guidance board had failed.

I suppose it is good it still partially worked instead of being totally disabled, but the behavior delayed diagnosing the issue.

 

[PatternBreak]

I have a new GTN 650 installed in my panel, and a question came up... if I were to loose GPS signal (or loss of WAAS capability), is there an obvious announcement on the Display, or is it only through the flashing "message" icon that I'd be notified? After looking through the Pilot's guide, I don't see anything other than a message (via message icon) for GPS integrity.

I can see a situation where I'm on final approach, and I simply don't notice the flashing message icon, and miss that I've lost GPS integrity. Due to airspace, traffic, flight plan changes, timer alerts, etc., the message icon flashes for half the flight, so it's easy to ignore.

Here are all the GPS failure messages you can get on a GTN 650, they're 'mildly' descriptive which I think was something lacking on the GNS series. You'll get a generic flashing message icon on both the GTN and G5 (unless a complete GPS failure) which you'll have to tap on to read, (which is why it's important you check and read these) 90% of the time these are airspace but the only other cue you'll get is the little purple GPS on the bottom saying something along the lines of GPS FAIL in yellow.

If you get a complete GPS failure you'll enter dead reckoning if enroute or if on aproach you should get an actual popup just like you hit the MAP I thinkkkkkk

Read this if you want to know more about GPS failures on approach: http://www.faraim.org/aim/aim-4-03-14-59.html

 

[denverpilot]

We now know who spent time in their manual and who didn’t.

 

[John Collins]

The LOI Loss of Integrity annunciation is in your primary view.