Lance, Rockwell 114, or TB20?

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Porterhouse

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Porterhouse
So my wife is close to giving me the green light for an airplane. The problem is she feels claustrophobic and gets airsick in many small planes. She has flown in airplanes that I have flown for work with mixed results....BE20 and PC12. I feel that the larger cabin of a Lance might work, but the open view of a TB20 would help as well. My mission would mostly be from Central FL to TN, NC, AL, TX, Chicago with 2 toddlers. Any advice is appreciated. Budget $150K
 
I would avoid a TB20. A good friend of mine had a TB21 and the plane (as in the airframe) was riddled with problems. They don't seem to be a great design.

Would she sit up front with you or in the back? The Lance or a BE36 would give you the benefits of club seating in the back which, while I don't like it personally, is nice with toddlers and would give more room.
 
In the lance, she’d probably ride in a rear facing club...closer to the CG. I am a sucker for Beechcraft quality...but she feels like she can’t see well up front and feels cramped in the back. I’m really leaning Lance, but if I could find something she could see well and not feel cramped up front, I’d take a look. What kind of issues your friend have with his TB21? Thanks for the response.
 
Make sure she has a chance to experience your choices. Both on the ground and during a demo flight.

No good getting a green light if she later isn't happy with the selection. Including her in the process, especially to make sure she is comfortable with the seat she will be occupying, is a very good idea.
 
Spoken like a man with experience! Great advice!
 
Porterhouse said:
So my wife is close to giving me the green light for an airplane. The problem is she feels claustrophobic and gets airsick in many small planes. She has flown in airplanes that I have flown for work with mixed results....BE20 and PC12. I feel that the larger cabin of a Lance might work, but the open view of a TB20 would help as well. My mission would mostly be from Central FL to TN, NC, AL, TX, Chicago with 2 toddlers. Any advice is appreciated. Budget $150K
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I may be misunderstanding - but it seems like you are saying that she hasn't even done that well in King Airs and PC-12s ("mixed results"), but you are considering buying something which is of course going to be much smaller than those? While we might think a Lance, TB20 or Commander 114 is spacious, we're comparing them to a 152. To your wife who isn't even even comfortable in a much larger plane, these will still seem tiny.
 
Lance for sure, without a doubt. I like the TB 21 .. it has a very wide cabin and with two doors kind of has that car feel to it and it's a remarkably strong air frame with a solid wing spar the whole way.. but the Lance is bigger, and given that it's a Piper product and not an obscure French plane probably the more pragmatic choice

**honestly though, if she felt uncomfortable and claustrophobic and airsick in something like a pc-12 then I'm not sure expecting her to travel with you on these trips is a realistic option...
 
A Lance is a a PA-32. That's all you need to know. Big interior and lotsa space for stuff.
 
Porterhouse said:
So my wife is close to giving me the green light for an airplane. The problem is she feels claustrophobic and gets airsick in many small planes. She has flown in airplanes that I have flown for work with mixed results....BE20 and PC12. I feel that the larger cabin of a Lance might work, but the open view of a TB20 would help as well. My mission would mostly be from Central FL to TN, NC, AL, TX, Chicago with 2 toddlers. Any advice is appreciated. Budget $150K
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if she is not happy in a PC12, just commit to first class tickets for the rest of your life, you will still come out ahead financially... or scare tactic her into submission with the threat of coronavirus on public transportation...
 
Davidl13 said:
if she is not happy in a PC12, just commit to first class tickets for the rest of your life, you will still come out ahead financially... or scare tactic her into submission with the threat of coronavirus on public transportation...
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It’s chop that bugs her. I’m trying to find something that will cut through the mild stuff a little smoother. I.E. like the King Air 200 blasted through it better than the PC-12. I know a Bonanza sounds like the right bird, but I’m familiar with those and looking for opinions about the other 3.
 
When I started my search for a plane I/we wanted a low wing, and it had to have 2 doors. I'm claustrophobic and having to climb into a cockpit with no door next to me just wasn't going to work for me. TB-20 was on my short list, along with DA-40 and SR-22. I didn't know much about the 114's and the time or I would have given them a look also. After flying a DA40, I found it to be to tight and not enough useful load, SR-22, I was limited to early models budget wise, chute re-packs and high time engines scared me off. I found a nice TB-20, low engine hrs, and decent avionics well within my budget.

My experience has been opposite of a lot of the negative comments you see. Very strong owners group at socata.com, parts have been pretty easy to come by, and not outrageously expensive for the most part. Actually, from what I've read, product support is as good or better than most companies.

The TB20/21's have 50" wide cabin, both front and rear seats, good useful loads, usually over 1150#, long range (86 gal usable), cruising at 65% power I'll be around 12.5 gal/hr right at 150kts (depending on alt). They are dirt simple to operate, now cowl flaps, only two fuel tanks, ergonomic control layout, and you should be able to find a good example well within your budget. They can be an excellent IFR platform, although none are FIKI, even the 21's. They may have de-icing capability, but they do not have a backup TKS pump, in EU they are cert for icing, but FAA will not, at least that's my understanding.
 
Sitting in the front seat of a 114 feels much more like sitting in a car than an airplane. See if you can find one locally that she can sit in and try on for size.
 
GBSoren said:
When I started my search for a plane I/we wanted a low wing, and it had to have 2 doors. I'm claustrophobic and having to climb into a cockpit with no door next to me just wasn't going to work for me. TB-20 was on my short list, along with DA-40 and SR-22. I didn't know much about the 114's and the time or I would have given them a look also. After flying a DA40, I found it to be to tight and not enough useful load, SR-22, I was limited to early models budget wise, chute re-packs and high time engines scared me off. I found a nice TB-20, low engine hrs, and decent avionics well within my budget.

My experience has been opposite of a lot of the negative comments you see. Very strong owners group at socata.com, parts have been pretty easy to come by, and not outrageously expensive for the most part. Actually, from what I've read, product support is as good or better than most companies.

The TB20/21's have 50" wide cabin, both front and rear seats, good useful loads, usually over 1150#, long range (86 gal usable), cruising at 65% power I'll be around 12.5 gal/hr right at 150kts (depending on alt). They are dirt simple to operate, now cowl flaps, only two fuel tanks, ergonomic control layout, and you should be able to find a good example well within your budget. They can be an excellent IFR platform, although none are FIKI, even the 21's. They may have de-icing capability, but they do not have a backup TKS pump, in EU they are cert for icing, but FAA will not, at least that's my understanding.
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Thank you for a great and helpful response. I am leaning Lance and TB20. I know no one with a TB so any intel is helpful. I live in Vero Beach, so I know a little about the Pipers
 
One other thing to think about is climb performance. If she gets green around the gills in chop, you're going to want something with enough performance to get on top of the summer slog relatively quickly. That's an added bonus about the RV-10 that my wife doesn't even realize is a 'thing' - I can take off and get on top of the bumps at 10-11k pretty quickly compared to a 182RG or 177RG and especially the Cherokee-Six. I'm not familiar with the Lance, so maybe it's a moot point with the Lance, but the Cherokee-Six is a dog.
 
Porterhouse said:
Thank you for a great and helpful response. I am leaning Lance and TB20. I know no one with a TB so any intel is helpful. I live in Vero Beach, so I know a little about the Pipers
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There are several TB20 owners in FL. Join socata.com, most owners are more than happy to show off what they have.

One common complaint on the TB series is headroom, the Gen 1's especially. I have a Gen 1, I'm 5'10" and have no problems, my son is about 6'1" and also doesn't have a problem. But, if you're tall, and especially if you have a long torso, it may be an issue in a Gen 1. Just FYI.
 
Rockwells are nice, but at some point MX support is going to be an issue. I'd go with the Lance, hands down of the three choices. That said, if I had the money for a decent A36, I'd go for that.
 
Lance! I have plenty of time in a Lance and an A36. Lance will handle the turbulence better. In the end, let her pick and she will be more motivated to stick it out. Or you can try what I did. I took an intro ride and got airsick to the point of needing the bag. It was all nerves, which went away after a couple of lessons. Maybe get her a few lessons. I would be a good pinch hitter and might solve the airsickness issue.
 
ktup-flyer said:
Commander would be my pick. I’ve spent a good while drooling over them
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We had a Commander 114 for years and looked to replace it with a newer plane. My wife was not happy with the other planes. The biggest difference was sometimes she will sit in the back if there is another pilot. The other planes were not comfortable and no view forward. She does not like rear facing or the oscillation in the very rear. We bought a 114B
 
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GBSoren said:
When I started my search for a plane I/we wanted a low wing, and it had to have 2 doors. I'm claustrophobic and having to climb into a cockpit with no door next to me just wasn't going to work for me. TB-20 was on my short list, along with DA-40 and SR-22. I didn't know much about the 114's and the time or I would have given them a look also. After flying a DA40, I found it to be to tight and not enough useful load, SR-22, I was limited to early models budget wise, chute re-packs and high time engines scared me off. I found a nice TB-20, low engine hrs, and decent avionics well within my budget.

My experience has been opposite of a lot of the negative comments you see. Very strong owners group at socata.com, parts have been pretty easy to come by, and not outrageously expensive for the most part. Actually, from what I've read, product support is as good or better than most companies.

The TB20/21's have 50" wide cabin, both front and rear seats, good useful loads, usually over 1150#, long range (86 gal usable), cruising at 65% power I'll be around 12.5 gal/hr right at 150kts (depending on alt). They are dirt simple to operate, now cowl flaps, only two fuel tanks, ergonomic control layout, and you should be able to find a good example well within your budget. They can be an excellent IFR platform, although none are FIKI, even the 21's. They may have de-icing capability, but they do not have a backup TKS pump, in EU they are cert for icing, but FAA will not, at least that's my understanding.
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Thanks, great response!
 
I narrowed the search down to a Sierra c24, but it is a bit slow, so I been trying to get a tb20 - very hard to find one . My criteria was cabin comfort and speed. So the tb 20 fits the bill. But very hard to find.
 
Patrick Murphy said:
We had a Commander 114 for years and looked to replace it with a newer plane. My wife was not happy with the other planes. The biggest difference was sometimes she will sit in the back if there is another pilot. The other planes were not comfortable and no view forward. She does not like rear facing or the oscillation in the very rear. We bought a 114B
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^^^This

Good friend had a 112TC, his wife loved it for the two doors, spacious cabin up front, windows. He got his head turned by a very nice, totally redone Mooney M20E in a short skirt and sold the Rockwell. She refuses to ride in the Mooney. At all.

However, if you have two toddlers and Mom is going to be needed in the back then the Lance is probably the best bet. The photo in #9 above says it all.
 
How about a Chest Rockwell...
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sorry...couldn’t help myself
 

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Since you looked at Bonanza's, did you try a Cirrus? Seems more like a car inside and 2 doors.
 
I had a 112TC and loved it. Very stable platform - more than once the CFII I used for IPCs said that I was thin on,y one he'd go with on a marginal day because of the stability.

The 114s and 115s are the same basic airframe with bigger power plants. The 112TC has longer wings, the others are shorter and therfore the structure of the wings and spars are different. Yes, it's a bit slower than some of the others, but not enough to make a huge difference on a long trip. Support though the owners group is good, and there is at least one shop that specializes in the Commanders. Some of the later 114/115 series are equipped with K-Ice TKS.
 
I can't speak for the TB20 since I've never been in one but the lance is very roomy and a pretty awesome plane. not that a bo isn't awesome, but nowhere near the room. I've never been in a bonanza where I wasn't smacking shoulders but more than that, my big fat noggin. they are not roomy airplanes. if it's just your wife in the back, not sure how much of a difference there'd be between the bo and lance as far as her comfort, but up front for you, a noticeable difference. not talking you out of a bo cause they're fun planes to fly, but for room there is no comparison.
 
Cervieres said:
20 years ago when I got my PPL, a 115TC was my dream aircraft. I still think they are one of the best looking piston singles ever made.
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I still remember seeing it on the cover of Flying in the late 70s and being smitten.
 
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