When do I need DME
- Thread starter 2nd505th
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Grum.Man
En-Route
Both of them require a DME. How else could you identify the missed approach point?
Grum.Man
En-Route
No, you will have to have an ILS or a WAAS GPS as one precision approach is required.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
If “DME” is in the title or “DME REQUIRED” is in the notes, you need a DME (or GPS substitute).
Jim Carpenter
Line Up and Wait
You might discuss this with your DPE. He/she may allow you to use a portable VFR-only GPS as a pseudo-DME for test purposes. Not legal, of course, for real IFR use. Not sure if they're allowed to do this, or not, but years ago, this was done in order to demonstrate/fly an approach with a DME-arc segment, however, that was out west, at a non-towered, Class E airspace facility.
Also, you can't descend below 1200 on the first one or 760 on the second one without it. That leaves you a few hundred feet over the MDA in both cases.
RussR
En-Route
Ignore the notes for a minute and just look at the approaches. How are you going to determine when you’re at each fix? Since the fixes don’t have crossing radials, you need DME, or an IFR approved GPS as a substitute. There is no way you can fly these approaches with just two VOR receivers.
Arnold
Cleared for Takeoff
I respectfully disagree. The LOC 21 approach says RADAR REQUIRED and can be executed with Radar identification of fixes. Just let the controller know you need him to do so.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
Not doable. You need a glideslope reciever at minimum. Do not pass GO, do not collect your $200.
More importantly, why would you want to fly around this way? Where are you going to go?
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yes to both questions. You shouldn’t see to many LOC/DME approaches, if any. They have changed how approaches are named. Only what is used for the final approach course is used. Other things that are required, like DME are put in the notes. The VOR/DME-A at KSAV is dated 02JUL09. It will change to the VOR-A with the DME required note sometime soon.
There is no time-to-fly section in either chart. DME or RADAR is required.
smv
Pattern Altitude
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smv
How would you identify your missed approach holding point without DME?
Arnold
Cleared for Takeoff
Radar. If DME were required it would say so. It says Radar Required, which means the powers that be are willing to let the controller do that work.
Man--they really like their DME down their. I checked most airports in close proximity and it looks like Statesboro has an ILS /LOC approach that has a timetable but not much else. The Hunter VOR requires DME sadly. I never realized how lucky we were in New England to have a good number of VOR and ILS approaches marked by crossing radials.
Back to the check ride issue. How have you been training with only dual VORs without DME? Doesn't look like there are many options for you. For the record I *would not* use any non-certified substitute device or work arounds on a check ride--puts the DPE and you in a bad place. Maybe you could rent a plane with the required avionics or fly the referenced HXD LOC approach and have the controller identify the FAF and MAP. Certainly I wouldn't have my first time trying that be on my check ride. That would make an already uncomfortable situation worse.
Good luck!
Back to the check ride issue. How have you been training with only dual VORs without DME? Doesn't look like there are many options for you. For the record I *would not* use any non-certified substitute device or work arounds on a check ride--puts the DPE and you in a bad place. Maybe you could rent a plane with the required avionics or fly the referenced HXD LOC approach and have the controller identify the FAF and MAP. Certainly I wouldn't have my first time trying that be on my check ride. That would make an already uncomfortable situation worse.
Good luck!
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
Read the fine print...it does say so.
lancie00
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lancie00
Both of these approaches require DME. The first lists it in the name and the second requires it in the notes.
I just completed my IFR in a plane with 2 VOR's (1 had glideslope) and an ADF. You are required to do 3 different approaches, 1 precision and 2 non precision. I did an ILS, VOR and NDB. If you don't have DME you can't do either of the approaches you've shown. My DPE wanted to do a DME arc but wouldn't allow me to substitute a non approved radio (iPad with Garmin Pilot) for the DME. Remember, your checkride isn't considered a training flight.
If your plane only has 2 VOR's with no glideslope, I don't see a way you can do your checkride. You need to do a precision approch. With glideslope, it looks like you could do the ILS 10 (precision) and LOC 10 (non-precision) at Savannah (KSAV), then you need a VOR approach somewhere that doesn't require DME. The closest non military I've found is VOR-A at Allendale (KAQX). If you have an ADF you would have a couple more options.
I just completed my IFR in a plane with 2 VOR's (1 had glideslope) and an ADF. You are required to do 3 different approaches, 1 precision and 2 non precision. I did an ILS, VOR and NDB. If you don't have DME you can't do either of the approaches you've shown. My DPE wanted to do a DME arc but wouldn't allow me to substitute a non approved radio (iPad with Garmin Pilot) for the DME. Remember, your checkride isn't considered a training flight.
If your plane only has 2 VOR's with no glideslope, I don't see a way you can do your checkride. You need to do a precision approch. With glideslope, it looks like you could do the ILS 10 (precision) and LOC 10 (non-precision) at Savannah (KSAV), then you need a VOR approach somewhere that doesn't require DME. The closest non military I've found is VOR-A at Allendale (KAQX). If you have an ADF you would have a couple more options.
smv
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smv
Seems to me the "RADAR REQUIRED" is because there is no other way to get from enroute to the approach.... Maybe I am missing it, but I do not see an IAF on that plate. Besides, would YOU trust ATC enough to be watching you closely enough to tell you when you have reached the hold point? Not this dude...
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Arnold
Cleared for Takeoff
You are correct. I retract everything I said.
brcase
En-Route
This is becoming the new normal. I think I have one Approach with 100miles of Boise that doesn't require DME/GPS now. Put my IFR trainer out of commission for checkrides.
Anyone have a good DME they want to get rid of cheap?
Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
It says DME required in the Notes Box. It says RADAR REQUIRED in the Planview. Radar is required to get established on the Approach. DME is required to identify Fixes on the Final Approach Course and the Missed Approach Fix. Both DME and Radar are required to do this Approach.
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