YOU MUST HAVE ADS-B...

Really I have no problem with it...
But sheesh!

Right hand, meet left hand...
 
Folks, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the GPS system was not put in place for the purpose of us civilians to navigate with our small planes. They put it in place for military purposes, so guess what? The military has control of it, and it’s very good that they are practicing scenarios where it has been lost.
 
I get that the over land stuff can’t be moved but I would like to see the off shore stuff pushed further out. Be nice to lessen the effects on air travel safety.
 
Folks, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the GPS system was not put in place for the purpose of us civilians to navigate with our small planes. They put it in place for military purposes, so guess what? The military has control of it, and it’s very good that they are practicing scenarios where it has been lost.
I know folks who helped develop the GPS system. That we even have it, means the gubmint's got better... Just like LORAN before GPS.
 
Soooooooooo … ADS-B won't work. Does that mean folks flying in rules airspace in the outage zone is violating 91.225? :confused2:
 
Guess it’s time to go back to paper charts and visual reference flying.
 
We've had a couple of these planned outages up here in the PNW. Its seemed to me to be mostly about as big a factor in my flying as the use by date on a loaf of bread.
 
We've had a couple of these planned outages up here in the PNW. Its seemed to me to be mostly about as big a factor in my flying as the use by date on a loaf of bread.

They virtually never stop near the test facility in NM. Same big diagram showing it *could* affect things in Wyoming in the north, Kansas East, etc.

Never seems to amount to much.

An accurate warning might give away too much of what they’re testing, I figure.
 
Folks, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the GPS system was not put in place for the purpose of us civilians to navigate with our small planes. They put it in place for military purposes, so guess what? The military has control of it, and it’s very good that they are practicing scenarios where it has been lost.

I absolutely see the need for them to practice scenarios where it has been lost but isn't there an easier way to do that than jamming it for everyone? Can't they just turn their GPS receivers off and do the same thing?
 
I absolutely see the need for them to practice scenarios where it has been lost but isn't there an easier way to do that than jamming it for everyone? Can't they just turn their GPS receivers off and do the same thing?

Part of the purpose of these exercises is to see how their GPS reacts to the jamming. They’re constantly looking for ways to better encrypt their systems to protect from jamming.

The GPS jamming is usually only a small just part of it. They’re generally a spectrum electronic warfare exercise. So meaconing, intrusion, jamming, interference. 1) See how our encryption systems fare and 2) how does the operator react to the MIJI influence.
 
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I absolutely see the need for them to practice scenarios where it has been lost but isn't there an easier way to do that than jamming it for everyone? Can't they just turn their GPS receivers off and do the same thing?

Depends on what part of the tech/human system they’re testing. Sometimes they need to test the jammer too.

Most of the warnings are in case they accidentally jam civilians... note if you look up the latest GPS cluster satellite tech data, they’re not really using the civilian signal for certain military purposes anyway. Multiple revisions of the satellites are on orbit with “new and improved” systems and transponders. Quite a bit of it classified in one way or another.

Like most mil or other NRO satellites, only believe half of what you read on Wikipedia...

The test may not even involve the civilian side of things at all.

And then there’s the possibility of disinformation... see who wants to watch a test by scheduling a test...

Secrets and lies...
 
I absolutely see the need for them to practice scenarios where it has been lost but isn't there an easier way to do that than jamming it for everyone? Can't they just turn their GPS receivers off and do the same thing?

Okay, let’s examine this. I will use my own equipment set as an example. Let’s say that the satellites above me are burned out by Martians or Russians or all the circuit breakers trip and they haven’t had time to jump in their shuttles and run up there to reset them yet. This happens about the time I happen to be flying along with my wife on the way to see our youngest daughter.

My 430W and my ForeFlight along with my 345 are satellite dependent items. I’m an old geezer so I still keep paper charts, although usually slightly outdated in the plane for an emergency.

Okay, so I could turn off my 430W and ForeFlight. If I did that I would have to dig out paper. That means looking up frequencies on the chart and twisting them into the radios. I could still use an E6B and plotter although they might be, would probably be, out of reach. Okay, I guess my wife can get out of her harness and go after it........ OR, I could leave the gadgets turned on and have access to my maps, my plates, be able to select frequencies and enter them on the 430, and have tons of information available to me in the form that I am accustomed to using. I could even still use the 430 for an ILS approach.

I went through a number of Tactical Evaluations and Operational Readiness Examinations as a missile and radar repairman in the Army. These inspections not only evaluate your knowledge and equipment readiness for normal operation, but just as importantly evaluates knowledge and procedures for emergency situations. I fully expect that a very valid emergency procedure test would be “what if” you lost all satellite reception. If you turn the GPS equipment off completely, you would be losing your charts, and who knows what all. If you tried to have simulation of no satellite input, you would never know if that really is what would happen if it were lost.

The long and short of it is, shutting off satellite transmission is the ONLY way you can know how to operate without them.

In the technology using part of the military it’s very necessary to follow the old adage, “train like you fight and fight like you train.”

Maybe there are civilians who believe that when military people are not deployed they are just sitting around playing cards. No folks, when they are not deployed they are training for when they will be.

Be happy that you get to take advantage of GPS technology for free and realize that it is a small cost to be without it sometimes in order to have an effective military to keep you safe and free.
 
Your charts in Foreflight aren’t satellite dependent.
I've been asking "why" or an equivalent every time I've seen that "need paper charts" comment. I honestly can't tell if it's an attempt at humor or lack of knowledge of how EFBs work.
 
I've been asking "why" or an equivalent every time I've seen that "need paper charts" comment. I honestly can't tell if it's an attempt at humor or lack of knowledge of how EFBs work.

I’ve just been joining you this morning. LOL.

Someone said “maybe they need moving charts” so I laughed and said stick finger on chart and move it! LOL LOL LOL.
 
I've been asking "why" or an equivalent every time I've seen that "need paper charts" comment. I honestly can't tell if it's an attempt at humor or lack of knowledge of how EFBs work.
Maybe without the depiction of the little plane many won't know where they is in relation to all them green and vignettes and circles and stuff?
I’ve just been joining you this morning. LOL.

Someone said “maybe they need moving charts” so I laughed and said stick finger on chart and move it! LOL LOL LOL.
Glass cockpit, glass backup cockpit in pilot bag, glass backup fer de backup on de phone in my pocket.

Not sayin' folks can't actually fly by pilotage and ded reckonin'...

But I've also seen folks walk into traffic, fountains, crash cars, and kill people; all while having their heads buried in a little piece of glass.
 
Maybe without the depiction of the little plane many won't know where they is in relation to all them green and vignettes and circles and stuff?.
Those many would get lost on a paper chart too, so still no difference.
 
Folks, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the GPS system was not put in place for the purpose of us civilians to navigate with our small planes. They put it in place for military purposes, so guess what? The military has control of it, and it’s very good that they are practicing scenarios where it has been lost.

The reason it was put in place is irrelevant. Between ADS-B and decommissioning VORs, they force us into GPS usage. If they're going to kill the VORs, I wish they wouldn't interfere with the replacement.

But remember, kids, you can always say, "Stop Buzzer."
 
Again, it’s funded and maintained by the military to keep us protected from foreign threats. Like anything else, the folks funding it have control of it. We are fortunate that as a byproduct we get to use it in our cars and airplanes.
 
Again, it’s funded and maintained by the military to keep us protected from foreign threats. Like anything else, the folks funding it have control of it. We are fortunate that as a byproduct we get to use it in our cars and airplanes.

Lol. No. It’s a multi billion dollar boondoggle.

No “foreign threat” is going to be transmitting ADS-B out other than spoofing a hundred fake targets around their real one. Or pretending to be an airliner or other known arrival.

It’s just poorly designed make work for thousands. It adds very little real value for the total price tag.

The aviation world leans toward being gaga about it because it’s been stuck in the 60s for so long, people think 90s tech resigned in the 80s is just spiffy.

Look at the Garmin instrument display announcement. Oooh ahhh. Computers that display things on high res small screens!

o_O ... that’s fifteen year old tech. LOL.

Aspen got WAY out ahead of this a long time ago and then stopped. Strategic mistake.

But even Garmin’s “latest” is ridiculously out of date compared to what’s in the rest of the tech world. And they tend toward only releasing strategically to kill competitors, not really even attempting to stay leading edge and nowhere near bleeding edge.

It’s just aviation. Old tech. Old rules for certifying it. For old people. Normal.
 
Lol. No. It’s a multi billion dollar boondoggle.

No “foreign threat” is going to be transmitting ADS-B out other than spoofing a hundred fake targets around their real one. Or pretending to be an airliner or other known arrival.

It’s just poorly designed make work for thousands. It adds very little real value for the total price tag.

The aviation world leans toward being gaga about it because it’s been stuck in the 60s for so long, people think 90s tech resigned in the 80s is just spiffy.

Look at the Garmin instrument display announcement. Oooh ahhh. Computers that display things on high res small screens!

o_O ... that’s fifteen year old tech. LOL.

Aspen got WAY out ahead of this a long time ago and then stopped. Strategic mistake.

But even Garmin’s “latest” is ridiculously out of date compared to what’s in the rest of the tech world. And they tend toward only releasing strategically to kill competitors, not really even attempting to stay leading edge and nowhere near bleeding edge.

It’s just aviation. Old tech. Old rules for certifying it. For old people. Normal.
It is what I like most about you. The complete lack of cynicism. :D
 
It is what I like most about you. The complete lack of cynicism. :D

LOL. I’m sitting here seeing that Lenovo seems to have one upped everyone with their foldable high res screens and even tells journalists and users to poke at them HARD with a finger right in the crease and nothing bad will happen...

Cool videos from CES.

Not to mention the upcoming battle to go well above “4K” resolution.

And the aviation world is excited about a computer controlled 3” display that’ll talk via voltage changes to a 1970s autopilot and serial bus to a GPS. LOL LOL LOL.

And yes. I like them. Or at least what Garmin says they’ll do. $3000+ is ridiculous for them EACH but... aviation.

We’ll see if all the advertised modes and functions actually work with the STC process and such, or if there will be dumb limits put on the functionality. :)

“Well we said it can do X but only with this other $2000 add on box because ... reasons...”

Pretty easy to spend more than the airframe is worth on avionics that have about a 50% ROI on resale.
 
Lol. No. It’s a multi billion dollar boondoggle.

No “foreign threat” is going to be transmitting ADS-B out other than spoofing a hundred fake targets around their real one. Or pretending to be an airliner or other known arrival.

It’s just poorly designed make work for thousands. It adds very little real value for the total price tag.

The aviation world leans toward being gaga about it because it’s been stuck in the 60s for so long, people think 90s tech resigned in the 80s is just spiffy.

Look at the Garmin instrument display announcement. Oooh ahhh. Computers that display things on high res small screens!

o_O ... that’s fifteen year old tech. LOL.

Aspen got WAY out ahead of this a long time ago and then stopped. Strategic mistake.

But even Garmin’s “latest” is ridiculously out of date compared to what’s in the rest of the tech world. And they tend toward only releasing strategically to kill competitors, not really even attempting to stay leading edge and nowhere near bleeding edge.

It’s just aviation. Old tech. Old rules for certifying it. For old people. Normal.

He was talking about GPS, not ADS-B
 
Whoops! Wrong thread!:p

I thought I was responding to the GPS blackout thread. Sorry guys. I’ll go try to find a hole to crawl into now.
 
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