Flying club, help me think this through....

Brad W said:
That's a nice fleet for sure. Not really competing against a typical rental fleet....in my thinking that makes for a much more attractive club than what I'm looking at....and seems like low hourly rates, but I notice those are dry rates. Seems like that could get just a bit sticky tracking who put it to bed with short fills or those running with less economical power settings
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We have easy to read hangar fuel loads that is each pilot’s responsibility to refuel to after each flight. If the next pilot discovers low fuel during preflight, he would work with the prior pilot to make it right.
 
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I belong to a 50 member club with 3 (used to be 4) airplanes. A C-182P, a C-172N and a C-172P. Different panels/equipment in each. The cost for buy-in is whatever you negotiate with the person selling the membership. Cost me $1200 20 years ago. Paid for itself in 40 hours as a C-172 cost $80/hr wet and the club's C-172N was $50/hr wet (then). $97/hr wet now. With tax it's a bit over $80/month for club dues, slightly less if you fly that month. $124/hr wet for the C-182, $97/hr wet for the C-172N (180 hp Penn Yan) and $87/hr wet for the C-172P. I would expect to get at least $1200 from the next person if I were to sell my membership.

Your numbers strike me as high, but different parts of the country. Our monthly dues cover fixed costs like hangars and insurance. It also helps that at least a third of the members never fly a club plane. In the nearly 20 years I've been a member I've been unable to fly due to the unavailability of a plane perhaps 3 times. I can't complain about that at all.
 
Maybe ask to see the financials? Many clubs (all?) make them available to members.

When you say the club owns the plane, my guy says that isn’t the case. I could be wrong.

Im looking at a club locally with two nice Cessnas. My buyin gives me an ownership interest in the plane, but there is a note against it. Two members (I think) co-signed for the loan and the bank would look to them if the club didn’t pay.

Sounds like in the partnership you are looking at maybe an individual owns the plane and leases it to the club? Otherwise I think you would be part owner of the plane as a member.
 
Those numbers seem high for what you get.

Here's what my equity club runs in comparison. 13 members and about half fly with regularity.

PA28-161
Dual Garmin G5
WAAS GPS
ADS-B Out
JPI Engine Monitor

Buy-in: $3,000 (sell to new member or refunded if you leave)
Dues: $108/month
"Rent": $47/hr tach dry

Club insurance covers all named pilots. Aircraft is hangared. Planned upgrades include Garmin GFC500 Autopilot and replacing the old Bendix Com2.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
Just to give you some data points. I belong to 2 clubs.

Club 1 - $1200 buy-in ($1K refundable)/$160 a month - 70 members - It can be hard to get a plane on a nice weekend day and if you want a plane for a whole weekend plan on 3+ months out.
RV12 - $100/hr hobbs
172N - $140/hr tach
172S - $140/hr tach
182S - $180/hr tach
182RG - $190/hr tach

Club 2 - $1K buy in ($1K refundable)/ $185 a month. 12 members one plane - Plane usually available - For a whole weekend plan 3 weeks out.
1983 Archer full IFR equipped - $95/Hobbs

For what I'm paying I could likely buy my own but (1) There are zero hangars available (2) I'm not sure what I want to own yet so it's nice to have a variety to fly and figure that out.
 
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Pugs said:
but (1) There are zero hangars available
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and if there are no tie downs either, like at my airport, it kinda all brings it to a dead end, doesn't it!

I'm still reeling after learning that last week.
 
mryan75 said:
You guys value a Dakota at $20,000? There must be a waiting list 3 miles long for that club. That is the deal of the century.
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It is a deal compared to other clubs in the area, that’s why there are approx 75 in the waiting list, member turn over is low.

Downside of only one plane is that if it is down for any extended period of time, the fixed costs still come in
 
Pugs said:
Club 1 - $1200 buy-in ($1K refundable)/$160 a month - 70 members - It can be hard to get a plane on a nice weekend day and if you want a plane for a whole weekend plan on 3+ months out.
RV12 - $100/hr hobbs
172N - $140/hr tach
172S - $140/hr tach
182S - $180/hr tach
182RG - $190/hr tach
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$140 for the 172 is an pretty good average price..
 
Brad W said:
$750 non refundable buy in
$750 refundable retainer
$100 per month dues
$125 per hour tach time
Cherokee 180, clean plane, hangared, very basic old round dial avionics with some sort of old garmin gps. No ads-b yet.
currently 5 members building to 20
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Sounds like a better deal than the one I recently found. A seven member "club" with a single C-172. The initial buy-in was "only" $12,000 then $180/month and $̶1̶3̶5̶/̶h̶r̶ $100/hr.

Sounds more like a fractional than a club.

Contrast that to the club I flew with in Helena, MT. Buy-in was $750 (fully refundable) then $80/month (with $40 of that going to flight credits if it was paid on time) and five or six airplanes ranging from $49/hr to $120/hr. Sure do miss those days...

:(
 
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smv said:
Sounds like a better deal than the one I recently found. A seven member "club" with a single C-172. The initial buy-in was "only" $12,000 then $180/month and $135/hr.
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Who in their right mind would be stupid enough to do that?
 
Ryanb said:
Who in their right mind would be stupid enough to do that?
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Donno... Not this dude. Was initially told buy-in was "around $8k" but when the only offer came in it was at $12k. Maybe that person was a bit... ambitious... in what they thought their share was worth. Being that far from my expectations I realized that trying to negotiate was out of the question and bowed out of the deal.
 
Ryanb said:
Who in their right mind would be stupid enough to do that?
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Tell us more about the C172. Prices run from $30k to $300k. So, once the year model and approximate value is known, divide that by 7.

Then... How much cash is in the reserves? If the plane is 1000 hrs SMOH there should be minimum $16k in the engine reserves. If they also reserve for avionics and other upgrades (interior) there could be over $20k in reserves. Divide that by 7.

So, it could very well be that $12k for a share is a good deal. That would be a $65,000 C-172 with $20k+ in the bank.

$180 for hangar, insurance, and routine mx (including annuals) is reasonable.

$135/hr wet is reasonable, if it includes the reserve funding.
 
Ravioli said:
Tell us more about the C172. Prices run from $30k to $300k. So, once the year model and approximate value is known, divide that by 7.
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It is a 1966 C172H sporting a Bendix/King KLN90B, Garmin G5, Stratus ESG, and a couple Garmin NAV/COMs. Apparently the engine has a recent overhaul but appears to have the OEM 145hp O-300.

Also, I made an error in the /hr rate that I will go back and fix. It is actually $100/hr which is a pretty good deal, in and of itself, but taken as a whole the entire all-in price is just a bit more than what I expected. As a Fractional deal, it might be pretty good. I am/was not looking for a fractional.
 
Ryanb said:
Who in their right mind would be stupid enough to do that?
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Have you seen the prices of the 172 lately... low hour M and N versions are selling for $75K to $100K.... P and S are up to $200K. it is sick... There was one local 172N that sold in five days for $90K.... 3500 hour airframe with a 1200 hour engine and no ADS-B.

Hells Bells... 152s are selling for $40K plus as well
 
Ventucky Red said:
Have you seen the prices of the 172 lately... low hour M and N versions are selling for $75K to $100K.... P and S are up to $200K. it is sick... There was one local 172N that sold in five days for $90K.... 3500 hour airframe with a 1200 hour engine and no ADS-B.

Hells Bells... 152s are selling for $40K plus as well
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I know of a super clean S model that sold for over $200 in the last month or two. Amazing.

With the mass training and hiring going on, it isn’t sitting still. No grass growing under that airplane. It’s flying like mad.
 
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