Cessna 421 - "Twin Cessna" or "Golden Eagle"?

RussR

RussR

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Truly important question here, I know.

I fly a couple of 421s. I typically just refer to myself on the radio as "Twin Cessna XXX".

When I took my insurance training, the instructor corrected me, saying I should call it "Golden Eagle". Okay, whatever it takes to get the certificate.

Yesterday, when checking in with Center, he asked me "are you a Twin Cessna, or a Golden Eagle?" So I confirmed that yes, I was a Golden Eagle. And then later that flight, I heard another 421 check in as a Golden Eagle.

Personally, I usually try to use a simple, descriptive term for any airplane, not the cutesy marketing term. Some of them, of course, are truly ridiculous. To me, calling it a "Golden Eagle" just sounds pretentious - "no, I'm not one of those mere Twin Cessnas, I have a Golden Eagle" and I imagine the response as being "ooh, a Golden Eagle, you say. Well, la-de-da..."

This probably started when I owned a Warrior. It's a pretty big stretch to call any 4-place, 150 hp "trainer" airplane a "Warrior". What, are we supposed to be afraid of its fire-breathing power and speed?

ATC folks - does it make much difference to you? Would it help if I switched to saying "Golden Eagle"?
 
I always made the distinction when I worked approach but I was also into aviation and studied above and beyond the minimum. Some controllers don’t know the differences or just don’t care. Either use over the radio is fine.

Doesn’t matter on the ATC side as far real world ops though. If using the typical twin Cessna (C310) vs the C421, both are “small” for radar sep and cat II for runway sep. Approach speed differences aren’t really enough to matter.
 
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i would guess the reason for calling it a golden eagle is that a twin cessna could be anything from a old 310 to a 421 quite a performance difference between them.
 
A 421 is a Golden Eagle, which is a name I don't like. Now, the original 414, as opposed to the 414A, didn't have a name - so calling it a Twin Cessna would be appropriate. Of course, everyone calls it a Chancellor anyway.
 
Where it might make a slight difference is to a local tower or ground controller, or if you're called out as traffic to somebody else -- at least they'd know they weren't looking for a tuna-tank, straight-tail 310. It just narrows it down a bit.

In the old days anything from a C-120 to a C-210 would just be "Cessna" on the radio. I'd use a marketing name in my callsign, even if it wasn't quite the right one, so long as it helps in visual identification. For example, a C-205 never had a marketing name, but looks and performs enough like a newer 206 that I'd use "Stationair" in the callsign.
 
RussR said:
Yesterday, when checking in with Center, he asked me "are you a Twin Cessna, or a Golden Eagle?"
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I think it's pompous too, I wonder what ATC was trying to discern.

You missed an opportunity to give him a marvel-comic style over the top "THIS IS SUPER EAGLE, CRAAAWWWWWWW!" response to remind him that he was being ridiculous by even asking. :D
 
I have the same type of thing with the Lance.
We are a t-tail lance, designation P32T.
I always identify as a Piper Lance P32T/G.
It’s a toss up with ATC whether they’ll call me Lance or Saratoga. Certainly Lance is correct, but Saratoga works... I think it’s just like a previous poster said. Depends on how into aviation the controller is.
 
My E33 is a Bonanza. It says it right on the airplane. I still get called Debonair on every flight.

Pilawt said:
Sometimes the effort is for naught. Many times when I was flying (retractable) Saratogas, the controller would come back with "Cherokee ... " o_O
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Hey, that's accurate - a Saratoga is a Cherokee 6 ;-)
 
I say it loud and clear. Love my Golden Eagle 421. :D
 
Heftiger said:
I have the same type of thing with the Lance.
We are a t-tail lance, designation P32T.
I always identify as a Piper Lance P32T/G.
It’s a toss up with ATC whether they’ll call me Lance or Saratoga. Certainly Lance is correct, but Saratoga works... I think it’s just like a previous poster said. Depends on how into aviation the controller is.
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+1 for “Or Cherokee”. Sigh...

I also get called Lancair a lot
 
If the engines puke and you take a financial bath, could it really be called a golden shower?
 
The only justification I could think of is knowing you are pressurized and turbo for route planning vs the typical 310. Glad you started this thread though because I’ve heard a guy announce “Golden eagle” a few times on the Unicom and had no idea what that was
 
As I understand it, the 421C was the only one that got named the "Golden Eagle" from the factory by Cessna, just as the 414A was the "Chancellor." The 320 was named the "Sky Knight". Technically based on that, a 421, 421A, or 421B isn't a Golden Eagle, and a 414 is not a Chancellor. However, the "Golden Eagle" name then made its way down the rest of the 421s because, well, it sounds cool and if you've got those fancy geared engines you want the world to know you aren't just a normal Twin Cessna like those jackwagons flying 310s. ;)

With that said, all ATC knows is that you're a C421 (which could be 421, 421A, 421B, or 421C) or a C414 (which could be a 414 or a 414A). So whatever makes ATC happy, go with.

When I was flying the 414 I always called it a Twin Cessna, but if a controller wanted to call me a Chancellor, I didn't care. I wanted to call the 310 "Sky King" (especially the time I flew an old tuna tanker first year model... that plane was fun!) but I figured ATC wouldn't have understood it.

mirage00 said:
I say it loud and clear. Love my Golden Eagle 421. :D
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Huh. How did I miss that you bought one of those? Must be living under a rock again. :)
 
In the Comanche ATC has called me everything from Arrow, Cherokee, Seneca, even Mooney. I had to razz the controller on the Mooney call, about my tail being installed corrected. He got a laugh out of it.
 
RussR said:
ATC folks - does it make much difference to you? Would it help if I switched to saying "Golden Eagle"?
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If you’re IFR, doesn’t matter.

If you’re calling up VFR for FF, Golden Eagle will allow the controller to type C421 on the scope as we usually (have to depending on SOP/LOA) do. If you say Twin Cessna (like I do because no one knows a 310 as a blue canoe or anything else cool sounding) then they will come back and say which type.

People don’t say Twin Piper...they always say Apache, Aztec, Seminole, Cheyenne, etc. :)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
As I understand it, the 421C was the only one that got named the "Golden Eagle" from the factory by Cessna, just as the 414A was the "Chancellor."
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The "Golden Eagle" moniker was initially bestowed on the tip-tanked 421B in 1970.

Technically based on that, a 421, 421A, or 421B isn't a Golden Eagle, and a 414 is not a Chancellor. However, the "Golden Eagle" name then made its way down the rest of the 421s because, well, it sounds cool and if you've got those fancy geared engines you want the world to know you aren't just a normal Twin Cessna like those jackwagons flying 310s. ;)
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Cessna's name game is bewildering. From 1960 through 1963, 210s were just 210s; the "Centurion" name first appeared in 1964. The first "Skylane" appeared in 1958, and the first "Skyhawk" in 1961, but until the mid 1970s those names just referred to optional equipment packages. In 1974 you could still buy a new 172 that was not a Skyhawk.

The name "Skywagon" first appeared in 1961, but only on the 185. The 180 wasn't a "Skywagon" until 1968, but I hear pilots of even the earliest 180s use that name on the radio, and logically so.

Among postwar production models, the 120, 140, 150*, 152, 170, 190, 205, 310, 335, 340 and 411** never had names.

*Some say 150 was "Commuter". For most of its production run, "Standard", "Trainer" and "Commuter" were the factory-installed equipment package choices on the 150. Only in 1977, the 150's last partial year of production, did the brochure call it "Cessna Commuter", but that didn't catch on or carry over to the 152. Using "Commuter XXX" as a callsign would surely be confusing.

**At least the 411 never had a name that could be used in polite company.
 
Most controllers aren’t pilots and simply just don’t know the difference. There are BE33 Bonanzas and BE33 Debonairs. To the controller, there is no difference. Same for Lance vs Saratoga; we just see PA32. When I am calling traffic, I don’t expect the pilots to know the difference between various twin Cessna models either. I work several Citation models every day...I know the C680 is going to climb way better than the C550, but when I am calling traffic, I say “Citation”. I could probably say “biz jet” (which is what I do when the various Falcon and Embraer jets I’m not that familiar with) and for ATC purposes it would work just fine.
Really, though, does “twin Cessna” mean anything to anyone except the guy in the left seat flying the plane?
 
If you think Golden Eagle sounds pretentious, you could use Executive Commuter instead. :)

2AA5FF75-90BC-453F-B861-C00B269C150A.jpeg
 
schmookeeg said:
Is that better or worse than "Piper Tail" ? :D
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Getting called a Cherokee in the Tiger is much more insulting :p

Rgbeard said:
+1 for “Or Cherokee”. Sigh...

I also get called Lancair a lot
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You do fly a Cherokee ;-)

Lancair would get an "I wish I was that fast"

midwestpa24 said:
In the Comanche ATC has called me everything from Arrow, Cherokee, Seneca, even Mooney. I had to razz the controller on the Mooney call, about my tail being installed corrected. He got a laugh out of it.
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The Mooney guy on frequency probably said "ask him how much gas he's burning." :p

When I get called Cherokee in the Tiger, I am like "I guess you didn't see how fast I was going." :p
 
Lucky you don't fly a Baron, 'cuz you can't call that a 'twin Beech'. 'Cuz only 18's are allowed to be called that.
I do find Golden Eagle to be awkward to say, thus I will avoid buying one.
 
II got called a 421 a lot while in the 414. I never got called a 414 when in the 421 though.

I was not about to say Beech 99 Airliner over the radio....
 
Zeldman said:
II got called a 421 a lot while in the 414. I never got called a 414 when in the 421 though.

I was not about to say Beech 99 Airliner over the radio....
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Funny how that works, I get called Conquest, Golden Eagle and occasionally Citation! I used Chancellor with my 414A and Golden Eagle with my 421B, or twin Cessna if that’s what the controller used.
 
I always used "Twin Cessna" unless asked. Not sure of the performance delta between a 421 and a 402C.
 
N747JB said:
Funny how that works, I get called Conquest, Golden Eagle and occasionally Citation! I used Chancellor with my 414A and Golden Eagle with my 421B, or twin Cessna if that’s what the controller used.
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I was called out as a king air a few times when in the Conquest....o_O :lol::lol:
 
I think it’s funny when people use airplane names a lot of people don’t know. I was flying with three pilot friends and we heard a radio call from a Golden Eagle. I was the only one who knew.

We have some local guys who partnered in a 150. One of them makes his radio calls with, “Commuter”. Technically he’s right, but nobody knows what he’s talking about.
 
RussR said:
Truly important question here, I know.

I fly a couple of 421s. I typically just refer to myself on the radio as "Twin Cessna XXX".

When I took my insurance training, the instructor corrected me, saying I should call it "Golden Eagle". Okay, whatever it takes to get the certificate.

Yesterday, when checking in with Center, he asked me "are you a Twin Cessna, or a Golden Eagle?" So I confirmed that yes, I was a Golden Eagle. And then later that flight, I heard another 421 check in as a Golden Eagle.

Personally, I usually try to use a simple, descriptive term for any airplane, not the cutesy marketing term. Some of them, of course, are truly ridiculous. To me, calling it a "Golden Eagle" just sounds pretentious - "no, I'm not one of those mere Twin Cessnas, I have a Golden Eagle" and I imagine the response as being "ooh, a Golden Eagle, you say. Well, la-de-da..."

This probably started when I owned a Warrior. It's a pretty big stretch to call any 4-place, 150 hp "trainer" airplane a "Warrior". What, are we supposed to be afraid of its fire-breathing power and speed?

ATC folks - does it make much difference to you? Would it help if I switched to saying "Golden Eagle"?
Click to expand...

"Golden Eagle" doesn't convey anything to me....could be a homebuilt, for all I know. When I flew the 300- and 400-series Cessnas I always identified as "Twin Cessna."

Bob
 
N1120A said:
Getting called a Cherokee in the Tiger is much more insulting :p



You do fly a Cherokee ;-)
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The Arrow used to get called a Cherokee, too. Now, the C-182 was faster than the Arrow by a couple knots. And, the POH did say "Cherokee Arrow", so who cares?
 
Ghery said:
The Arrow used to get called a Cherokee, too. Now, the C-182 was faster than the Arrow by a couple knots. And, the POH did say "Cherokee Arrow", so who cares?
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All PA-28s and PA-32s, including retractables, were "Cherokees" through the end of the 1977 model year.

1976 Pipers.jpeg

Screen Shot 2020-01-12 at 5.49.13 PM.png

The "Cherokee" name survived in 1978 only on the Cherokee Six, which for 1979, its last year of production, became simply "Six 300".
 
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