New 2020 G6 Cirrus

I just don't understand why so many people here, and many pilots, abhor any kind of tech improvements, and rather than find solutions, look for all the reasons why something shouldn't or "can't" be done. It's not just Cirrus, but people hated glass, composites, etc.

It's this mindset that "why should you have it better?! You need to suffer as much as I did and fly IMC approaches down to minimums with nothing more than an ADF!" - it's a very peculiar and not very mature way of looking at the world, wanting yours and future generations to suffer as much as yours did

I don't think it's that, at least for some. I (as a 40+ year technology professional) know that all this new gee-whiz stuff, some of which I helped create, can and does fail. Having an understanding of what the underlying stuff is and how it works can save your bacon.

I like tech, for some things. And we've advanced state of the art in ways that continually amaze me, perhaps more than those who don't have an inkling of what's going on under the covers. (Medical imaging tech, that I'm getting lots of experience now with my mom's cancer treatments, is simply astounding software, for example.)

Experience with new cool stuff over decades tells me that: 1) it doesn't always work, 2) it isn't always better or suited to the task, 3) it's NEVER a substitute for understanding what's going on.

I like the looks of Cirrus and it's on my short list (albeit used) of possible planes to purchase. But I still think you shouldn't trust all the gee whiz cool stuff without understanding how it works and more importantly how it might not.

John
 
I just don't understand why so many people here, and many pilots, abhor any kind of tech improvements, and rather than find solutions, look for all the reasons why something shouldn't or "can't" be done. It's not just Cirrus, but people hated glass, composites, etc.

It's this mindset that "why should you have it better?! You need to suffer as much as I did and fly IMC approaches down to minimums with nothing more than an ADF!" - it's a very peculiar and not very mature way of looking at the world, wanting yours and future generations to suffer as much as yours did

I agree - I am a 57 year old 35+ year pilot and I recognize that Cirrus is the future. I have converted my 1995 Commander to a glass panel and do not ever want to go back to flying with steam gauges only again.

Just like I enjoy the new technology in my home, car, entertainment, etc. Flying is no different.
 
the future of the hobby is EAB
I don't disagree.. it's certainly not with Textron or Mooney.. and Cirrus is $$ and doesn't fit everyone's needs. An awesome plane (I'm an unashamed lover of the plane) but there are *many* tasks it's not great for. The thing with EAB is, at least for the initial product, it requires a big initial time investment from the builder. The lighter regulations and diversity of what's out there (the V-Twin is one of the coolest planes out there) you need, if not money, at least a lot of time, space, and dedication. There are many unfinished examples out there.

The Lancair Mako is half the price of a Cirrus, and almost as much of an airplane (and by some measures, more of an airplane)
https://lancair.com/mako/

Experience with new cool stuff over decades tells me that: 1) it doesn't always work, 2) it isn't always better or suited to the task, 3) it's NEVER a substitute for understanding what's going on.
There are gimmicky things out there that fit the bill for #1 and #2.. and I completely agree on #3. It does seem though that for many people the default reaction is "no, this is a bad idea and/or can'tbe done because of X"

Just like I enjoy the new technology in my home, car, entertainment, etc. Flying is no different.
Completely agree. I've never understood why flying was given a free pass to stay in the dark ages. Advancement largely stopped in the 1980s (1940s for our powerplants)
 
Completely agree. I've never understood why flying was given a free pass to stay in the dark ages. Advancement largely stopped in the 1980s (1940s for our powerplants)

You could get there in theory, but you'll ground most of us by cost in the certified side. The difference then is, what camp are you on? There's a chunk of folks on here for whom that outcome isn't the bug, but the feature. Those people aren't friends of mine, and I'm not friends of theirs. But we should dispense with the platitudes and just speak the quiet parts out loud. There's a huge socioeconomic dogwhistle at play here, in certified land.

EAB is the closest thing you can get to, where there's enough regulatory slack in the rope to role-play with these so-called tech advancements (powerplants and airframe modifications) and not kick the "undesirables" off the playground. But it's not a comprehensive solution in the least, as you've already pointed out.
 
you'll ground most of us by cost in the certified side
Myself included.

I'm continually amazed at how expensive flying is.. objectively a C172 honestly shouldn't cost that much.. it's what.. <2,000 lbs of metal and a basic engine

But the tiny volume, regulations, etc., push costs high

I simply hope that some day I'll have enough time or money to either buy (or build) the plane I ultimately want
 
Get to know "some people in this income level" and you'll find that it ain't always so.

I used to work for a couple that had paintings on the wall that cost more than a new Cirrus. They were totally about the latest and greatest tricks. There were always some of the first to get the next iPhone and seemed genuinely excited about the latest gimmick. Same way with their cars. They were not necessarily always seeking out something better, but if somebody showed it to then it was an easy sell.

Their behavior to me seems typical of others I know in similar financial situations.
 
I just don't understand why so many people here, and many pilots, abhor any kind of tech improvements, and rather than find solutions, look for all the reasons why something shouldn't or "can't" be done. It's not just Cirrus, but people hated glass, composites, etc.

It's this mindset that "why should you have it better?! You need to suffer as much as I did and fly IMC approaches down to minimums with nothing more than an ADF!" - it's a very peculiar and not very mature way of looking at the world, wanting yours and future generations to suffer as much as yours did

I think I literally just said this in a training thread... LOL...

Aviation is price sensitive. :)

In most industries, tech lowers cost while maybe making the product better.

Moving map? Great. Moving map that costs $10,000 installed? Mmmm... a harder mistress to love. Especially when that tech (from the same company even!) is so cheap it’s a commodity item in other vehicles. Even the data updates in those are “pffft... that isn’t even the price of a fancy dinner out!”

But when you’re hurtling at things inside a cloud at the MAP 200’ up... commodity grade doesn’t cut it. The question is always “just how much more does it need to be tested?”

The other thing is the sunk cost fallacy of repairing vs replacing, but it’s that low whistle you do when replacing a $500 receiver for a $10,000 one that makes you pause hard.

ADS-B is different. It adds some value but again, high price (please include the “free” ground stations and piles of back end equipment) and abysmal engineering quality (It’s pretty easy to count 15-20 known single points of failure that are UNmonitored), along with the magic word “mandate”... leads to some heartburn for anybody who knows safety system design or formal failsafe system design.

Which is the worst part of it. It’s not primary, can’t be, and won’t be, and isn’t a safety system. Not by the definition of one in engineering disciplines. It’s a best-effort system, designed close to 25 years ago.

Most people who drive cars until they die have owned two since it was state of the art. :) They’re on their fourth or fifth better and cheaper laptop since then, and easily their third smartphone, let alone cell phone which was barely affordable when the ADS-B design was laid down. Hahaha

Asking much money for that now is fairly laughable but par for the course for aviation and FAA. They don’t move fast but there’s a lot to be said that they’re behind even the slowest tech adopters now by over a decade. Closer to two. :)

Price sensitivity includes “My ipad has done more than any of my aviation tech for over a decade and my car has for half of one...” when marketing to the raw public about flying.

They really do expect push button flying these days.
 
You have to realize, the Cirrus is not marketed to the hobby pilot market, or the weekend flier, or the low and slow crowd. It is made for the go getter, business travelers, who are in it for the destination rather than the journey. And that's ok, aviation is made up of all types of pilots, with different wants, needs, expectations, and most importantly funding.
 
You have to realize, the Cirrus is not marketed to the hobby pilot market, or the weekend flier, or the low and slow crowd. It is made for the go getter, business travelers, who are in it for the destination rather than the journey. And that's ok, aviation is made up of all types of pilots, with different wants, needs, expectations, and most importantly funding.

Talked to a friend who sold a Skyhawk for over $200K recently. It was a nice Skyhawk, but day-um.

Is there a need for that?

Good for the CFIs that hover with a radio in tower frequency when sending someone to solo, especially if they add VoIP! ;)

“Pull up. You’re going to die. What did we learn about 40 degrees nose down in the pattern?”

(Un-keys Voip button on CFI Cirrus app only available to specially trained Cirrus CFIS...)

“See! Remote CFI feature saved another one!”

:) :) :)
 
I simply hope that some day I'll have enough time or money to either buy (or build) the plane I ultimately want

I hope electric will bring the price down a lot. So much simpler (in theory); that MX should be much less. Less to inspect, less to fix...
Not sure about the actually OpEx being lower because battery replacement costs will be through the roof for many years to come. (Let alone mission short comings)

Tim
 
Is there a need for that?
some of the others mentioned it too, but in a multi pilot situation or for a quick glance for things like oxygen and t k s this could save you some time and better planning for going out to the airport
 
It's a gimmick. People are drawn to gimmicks. Like most gimmicks, it has some utility if you take it for what it is.

Cirrus makes a good plane, not a great one. They make a very good handling plane, but market to people who don't care about handling. They make a plane that should be faster, but compromises for perceived simplicity.
 
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