ADS-B Doesn’t Affect Us All ?

Doug Reid

Doug Reid

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Doug Reid
ADS-B doesn’t affect us all ? I looked on my Stratux to see if there was any non ADS-B Out flying over. All the traffic shown on the bottom half of the screen is NOT transmitting ADS-B Out .25EA8EB5-CED5-4D25-B4BA-8F48482507CE.png
 
I pretty much wouldn't need it as I can get around our Class C and still land at my son's place outside the Class C in his area. Am installing it now though ... most of the military and government AC in my area aren't installed yet either ...
 
Here's the FAA's chart:

It comes down to:
Class A
Class B: within the 30 NM veil and within and above the Class B airspace (sounds redundant but it is not)
Class C: inside and above
Class E:
• Above 10,000 msl (except within 2,500 feet of the ground)
• Above 3,000 msl within 12 NM of the shore in the Guld of Mexico

That's a lot of area where you are OK without ADS-B Out
airspaceRequirements.jpg
 
Yeah, you’re okay if you have no interest in extra help watching for aircraft and having onboard weather.
 
Doug Reid said:
ADS-B doesn’t affect us all ? I looked on my Stratux to see if there was any non ADS-B Out flying over. All the traffic shown on the bottom half of the screen is NOT transmitting ADS-B Out .View attachment 81568
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I suspect your Stratux report is not reliable. Maybe the Stratus is just somehow not receiving their ADS-B data.

Using your screenshot, I picked two of the aircraft, N559NN N659AW that your Stratux says are above 18,000', but it's not receiving their ADS-B. They're both airliners, and Flightaware shows ADS-B tracking data for both of those planes, as they are both airborne right now as I type this.
 
1A98F282-3165-4FF0-A174-95FF275DD195.jpeg I’m in MI with a Cessna 140 I’m thinking my missions in a little old taildraggers will be largely unaffected...lots of my state left to be flying low n slow over without...
 
MBDiagMan said:
Yeah, you’re okay if you have no interest in extra help watching for aircraft and having onboard weather.
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That’s all well and good if the weather data was any good. Where I fly the cell service is better and more up to date than the ads-b weather.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Steven Untet said:
That’s all well and good if the weather data was any good. Where I fly the cell service is better and more up to date than the ads-b weather.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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But that's out-of-date as well, since you cannot use cellular connections whilst flying (unless it's finally been approved.)
 
Steven Untet said:
That’s all well and good if the weather data was any good. Where I fly the cell service is better and more up to date than the ads-b weather.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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The usefulness of the weather will be determined, at least in part, by the tool used to display it. If you’re planning on using a 430 it won’t be so great. Using Foreflight makes it quite useful.
 
Doug Reid said:
ADS-B doesn’t affect us all ? I looked on my Stratux to see if there was any non ADS-B Out flying over. All the traffic shown on the bottom half of the screen is NOT transmitting ADS-B Out .View attachment 81568
Click to expand...

Remember, you're not getting the whole picture from your Stratux or any other receiver unless you're broadcasting Out.

As for my choice to NOT use it? The majority of airplanes around my area don't even have transponders. ADS-B traffic is near useless. I've used a GDL39 for In services for many years and will continue to do so, but traffic is too unreliable to count on. And by the way, my Cub does have full ADS-B In and Out, so I do have some knowledge of how well it works compared to my GDL and iPhone.
 
NordicDave said:
Shocking how much near-in traffic I never saw until ADS-B was installed ship board. FIS-B weather is amazing while flying long x-country. The situational awareness it adds is worth it alone.
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but....my OCD has become a distraction....cause I can't always "see" the traffic it's displaying.
 
Yes, I think Alaska is a different ball game. The sad thing is that if it were properly designed and implemented, it might have had the most usefulness in parts of Alaska. Might have had a chance to save lives.
 
Why do people keep co-opting FIS-B into the ADSB-out mandate boondoggle? I've been using FIS-B since 2012 and I've never been ADSB-Out compliant.
 
Steven Untet said:
That’s all well and good if the weather data was any good. Where I fly the cell service is better and more up to date than the ads-b weather.
Click to expand...


And your cell phone doesn't cost you $10K to get weather in your plane.
 
The Capstone Project in Alaska was the birth of ADS-B. The technology is awesome. Leave it to the government to totally botch the application.
 
NoHeat said:
I suspect your Stratux report is not reliable. Maybe the Stratus is just somehow not receiving their ADS-B data.

Using your screenshot, I picked two of the aircraft, N559NN N659AW that your Stratux says are above 18,000', but it's not receiving their ADS-B. They're both airliners, and Flightaware shows ADS-B tracking data for both of those planes, as they are both airborne right now as I type this.
Click to expand...

You are correct...the aircraft on the lower screen are either going out of range or just starting to enter the range of the receiver...as they fly closer, the signal improves and they are shown on the upper screen and on ForeFlight.

Thanks...receiver is sitting on my desk in my office.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Is your Stratux single or dual antenna?
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Dual antenna..unit sitting on my desk here at home. Poor signal strength is the reason the aircraft are shown with no position data. I had to monitor this page to see targets move in and out of range of good reception.
 
Huckster79 said:
I’m in MI with a Cessna 140 I’m thinking my missions in a little old taildraggers will be largely unaffected...lots of my state left to be flying low n slow over without...
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If you had a 120 instead of the 140, you would not be affected at all.
Doug Reid said:
ADS-B doesn’t affect us all ? I looked on my Stratux to see if there was any non ADS-B Out flying over. All the traffic shown on the bottom half of the screen is NOT transmitting ADS-B Out .View attachment 81568
Click to expand...
Where are the "1200" aircraft?
 
Squawk not shown on these ADS-B targets listed on top of screen.....all were IFR this morning as well. I do see 1200 code aircraft in VFR conditions.
 
Look, I get the whole "I hate government surveillance" part of the anti-ADS-B crowd, but there is real practicality behind the application for pilot safety - particularly in busy airspace. Even if there wasn't a mandate, I'd want ADS-B anywhere in California, Florida, the Northeast, busy parts of Texas, Arizona, etc. To be able to see targets is incredibly helpful, because even under IFR - ATC can't always give you the best picture. The weather products are astounding - especially seeing that they come as part of the package. I've used NexRad on a 530W to pick between two storms so effectively that airliners started taking the same routing. You can't do that without it.
 
If every plane was painted on ADS-B it would be a worthwhile traffic tool. As long as there are non compliant airplanes sharing your airspace? You can’t rely on a screen for traffic. And there are LOTs of planes with no plans to comply.
 
here’s a GP picture of my local area. My normal path is top right to bottom left. This scale is about 20 miles. All the private strips are Cub strips and the majority of those planes don’t have transponders. Nice summer days mean very busy airspace. Eyes outside. I think the traffic on screen is a great idea where it works. Away from controlled airspace? Don’t be convinced that big brother has your back.

5A23CB46-1FC7-44B2-B93C-54CD4480ED3C.jpeg
 
I recall seeing so many private grass steps in GA I thought the GPS was broken. If you haven't any controlled airspace nearby and all you do is look at farm fields for fun, yeah you don' need ADSB, though you might have a harder time selling your aircraft. Most pilots live where most people live, and that's big cities with lots of controlled airspace. If I want to take off to the East I fly right into it. If you have a traveling airplane you really need it, you'll hot controlled airspace sooner or later. It gets old going around all the time.
 
N1120A said:
I've used NexRad on a 530W to pick between two storms
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Using Nexrad to pick between storms is on the short list of things that the FAA and AOPA continuously harp on us not to do. There's even an Accident Case Study on it:

ADS-B "In" provides plenty of benefits to pilots. Picking your way between storms is not one of them.

As far as ADS-B "Out" goes, it's the law so those of us who fly in "rule airspace" just need to deal with it. It's not like they sprung it on us. The voices against it were heard and disregarded for enough years to replace all the lawmakers behind it if it were not democratically supported. I don't know the history of the Mode C requirement in certain airspace, but I suspect that the same process played out back then as now, albeit with telegrams and letters to the editor instead of grumpy online forum posts.

I equipped my plane early because my transponder had died and it made no sense to put in a non-ADS-B replacement. I would have equipped sooner or later anyhow because my mission includes flights into Class C airports and satellites of Class B airports, as well as flight above 10,000 feet. It will also make it easier to sell the plane because it needs nothing in order to go anywhere in the country.
 
iamtheari said:
Using Nexrad to pick between storms is on the short list of things that the FAA and AOPA continuously harp on us not to do. There's even an Accident Case Study on it:

.
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That guy ignored what ATC was telling him. There's a difference in using it for situational awareness and planning and using it to penetrate a storm.
 
Good video! Having onboard weather, even delayed weather, is a valuable tool, but one needs to understand the lag and not cut things too close. Personally I’m a wuss when it comes to thunderstorms and turbulence. When in doubt, put it on the ground. The old saying; “ better late than never” comes to mind.
 
iamtheari said:
Using Nexrad to pick between storms is on the short list of things that the FAA and AOPA continuously harp on us not to do. There's even an Accident Case Study on it:

ADS-B "In" provides plenty of benefits to pilots. Picking your way between storms is not one of them.

As far as ADS-B "Out" goes, it's the law so those of us who fly in "rule airspace" just need to deal with it. It's not like they sprung it on us. The voices against it were heard and disregarded for enough years to replace all the lawmakers behind it if it were not democratically supported. I don't know the history of the Mode C requirement in certain airspace, but I suspect that the same process played out back then as now, albeit with telegrams and letters to the editor instead of grumpy online forum posts.

I equipped my plane early because my transponder had died and it made no sense to put in a non-ADS-B replacement. I would have equipped sooner or later anyhow because my mission includes flights into Class C airports and satellites of Class B airports, as well as flight above 10,000 feet. It will also make it easier to sell the plane because it needs nothing in order to go anywhere in the country.
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I think that’s a good example of a pilot who didn’t understand how to use NEXRAD as a planning tool and was most likely dealing with “weather frustration” in trying to reach his destination. Based on the vid he was VMC at 8,000. He should’ve stayed VMC and used his NEXRAD to give a picture of when he could start his turn west. He just simply failed to give a wide birth, stay VMC and didn’t listen to ATC. Not all pilots would make those types of errors.
 
Velocity173 said:
I think that’s a good example of a pilot who didn’t understand how to use NEXRAD as a planning tool and was most likely dealing with “weather frustration” in trying to reach his destination. Based on the vid he was VMC at 8,000. He should’ve stayed VMC and used his NEXRAD to give a picture of when he could start his turn west. He just simply failed to give a wide birth, stay VMC and didn’t listen to ATC. Not all pilots would make those types of errors.
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Not all pilots would make those types of errors, but it's also true that not all pilots understand that making tactical storm avoidance decisions with Nexrad imagery is an error. I was responding to a member saying he has used Nexrad "to pick between two storms." I don't know how far apart those two storms were or if they were the fast-moving storms I am used to. Maybe that pilot was not making an error. But many pilots who speak in the exact same terms are making a grave error, and some of them pay with their passengers' lives. Understanding what Nexrad actually provides is critical to avoiding that outcome.
 
iamtheari said:
Not all pilots would make those types of errors, but it's also true that not all pilots understand that making tactical storm avoidance decisions with Nexrad imagery is an error. I was responding to a member saying he has used Nexrad "to pick between two storms." I don't know how far apart those two storms were or if they were the fast-moving storms I am used to. Maybe that pilot was not making an error. But many pilots who speak in the exact same terms are making a grave error, and some of them pay with their passengers' lives. Understanding what Nexrad actually provides is critical to avoiding that outcome.
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No kidding but you can’t lump @N1120A into the same category as that guy just because of his negligence. Maybe he actually understands the limitations of his equipment. How far is “picking between two storms” anyway? I think your assuming the worst here.

Nothing wrong with using NEXRAD / FIS-B navigating weather as long as you understand the delay, stay VMC and give a wide berth. In this pic it looks like I’m in moderate rain. I’m actually in the clear. I’d be willing to bet 20F is as well. Am I using to pick my way around areas of moderate rain? Sure I am but I have the common sense to not fly into a gap simply because my display shows a gap.



D7018017-13AF-481A-8851-27B11443F62B.jpeg
 
Velocity173 said:
No kidding but you can’t lump @N1120A into the same category as that guy just because of his negligence. Maybe he actually understands the limitations of his equipment. How far is “picking between two storms” anyway? I think your assuming the worst here.
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I don't assume either that anyone in particular either is or is not playing chicken with thunderstorms using ADS-B Nexrad. But in a discussion of what ADS-B gives you, I don't think it's ever unfair to point out that it does not give you a safe way to make short-range tactical maneuvers around storms.

I also don't think that tiny splotches of yellow constitute a "storm." :)
 
iamtheari said:
Not all pilots would make those types of errors, but it's also true that not all pilots understand that making tactical storm avoidance decisions with Nexrad imagery is an error. I was responding to a member saying he has used Nexrad "to pick between two storms." I don't know how far apart those two storms were or if they were the fast-moving storms I am used to. Maybe that pilot was not making an error. But many pilots who speak in the exact same terms are making a grave error, and some of them pay with their passengers' lives. Understanding what Nexrad actually provides is critical to avoiding that outcome.
Click to expand...

I wasn't suggesting that we used Nexrad as a live thunderstorm penetration tool. Instead, we used it to have the situational awareness to understand the rate at which the storms were moving and the direction, which allowed us to remain in the clear and actually in VMC the entire time. We didn't even get into green. On another flight, we used it to make the decision to divert due to a line that moved much faster that expected and also get an approach to a different runway than advertised. The whole point is to understand the margins it allows.
 
N1120A said:
I wasn't suggesting that we used Nexrad as a live thunderstorm penetration tool. Instead, we used it to have the situational awareness to understand the rate at which the storms were moving and the direction, which allowed us to remain in the clear and actually in VMC the entire time. We didn't even get into green. On another flight, we used it to make the decision to divert due to a line that moved much faster that expected and also get an approach to a different runway than advertised. The whole point is to understand the margins it allows.
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Then you shouldn’t refer to your actions as “picking between two storms”.
 
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