High performance endorsement... worth it?

Peter Ha

Peter Ha

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Hey folks,
Is this endorsement 61.31(f) worth getting even if I (or flight school) don't have a high-performance plane?
 
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Peter Ha said:
Hey folks,
Is this endorsement 61.31(f) worth getting even if I don't have an over-200kts airplane?
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I don't know about you but for me it is, as our club has 2 high-performance planes (an 182 and an Arrow).
 
Peter Ha said:
Hey folks,
Is this endorsement 61.31(f) worth getting even if I (or flight school) don't have a high-performance plane?
Click to expand...
You will need it when you have the opportunity to fly a plane that requires it.

Obtain the training and endorsement at that time.
 
AggieMike88 said:
You will need it when you have the opportunity to fly a plane that requires it.

Obtain the training and endorsement at that time.
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Just don’t forget about it when the time comes...I’ve flown with a couple of type rated jet guys who didn’t have the high altitude endorsement they needed to act as PIC.:rolleyes:
 
I’d say no if you have the complex endorsement. The emphasis of both is to stay ahead of the now faster moving airplane. That said, you’ll need it if the right airplane comes along. I can’t imagine it takes that long to learn to stomp on the right rudder...
 
Yes it’s worth it. The planning and engine management will still transfer to non-hp planes. Plus it’s fun and easy to add.

It might come down to what plane you are training in. There are still many planes out there with more than 200 horse power. Besides, you never know when you’ll want to rent a 182 for a trip.
 
How are you going to get the endorsement without the plane?
 
Once you have it, it never goes away. With that in mind, if I didn't need it right away I'd still get it if a convenient opportunity presented itself but I wouldn't go out of my way to get it if I didn't need it.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Just don’t forget about it when the time comes...I’ve flown with a couple of type rated jet guys who didn’t have the high altitude endorsement they needed to act as PIC.:rolleyes:
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I’ll have to look but I don’t think I have a specific High Altitude endorsement.
 
What would deter you from getting one?
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I’ll have to look but I don’t think I have a specific High Altitude endorsement.
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I don't either but I bet, like me, you meet one of the below conditions and do not need the endorsement. In fact I also do not have, high performance, complex or tailwheel but have PIC time in all of them, grandfathered.

(3) The training and endorsement required by paragraphs (g)(1) and (g)(2) of this section are not required if that person can document satisfactory accomplishment of any of the following in a pressurized aircraft, or in a full flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a pressurized aircraft:

(i) Serving as pilot in command before April 15, 1991;

(ii) Completing a pilot proficiency check for a pilot certificate or rating before April 15, 1991;

(iii) Completing an official pilot-in-command check conducted by the military services of the United States; or

(iv) Completing a pilot-in-command proficiency check under part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter conducted by the Administrator or by an approved pilot check airman.
 
Peter Ha said:
Hey folks,
Is this endorsement 61.31(f) worth getting even if I (or flight school) don't have a high-performance plane?
Click to expand...

No

Wait till you need it for something, you’ll probably need a little dual in whatever plane it is anyway and can include the endorsement
 
All training is good, adds things to your brain. But if you don’t have access to or really don’t plan on flying anything right now that will require it, no real need to do it.

You’ll need an aircraft checkout in whatever it is someday anyway and it’ll be handled then if it’s your first HP aircraft.

Also no real need to rent something just to do it, if you’re not going to fly whatever you rented and stay proficient in it.
 
@denverpilot is right.. you'll need a check out for rental anyway, so if money spent is a concern, just wait for that day to come.
+1 on what @Initial Fix said also.
If you want to have some fun and learn without worrying about the extra instructor hour(s) heck why not get the HP endorsement.
It might make the checkout a little smoother if\when it comes along. Plus if you're exploring ownership in your mind at all, it could be good experience\info to have.

Remember to trim that nose up on final if you go ;)
 
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Greg Bockelman said:
I’ll have to look but I don’t think I have a specific High Altitude endorsement.
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You don’t need one now...can’t say as you ever did. The guys I’m referring to didn’t meet any of the criteria to not need the endorsement.
 
Plano Pilot said:
I don't either but I bet, like me, you meet one of the below conditions and do not need the endorsement. In fact I also do not have, high performance, complex or tailwheel but have PIC time in all of them, grandfathered..
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Similarly, I am grandfathered into the HP and Complex endorsements because I was flying them as PIC before the regs changed last.
 
One day a photographer asked me to be his copilot while he was hanging out the window of his C-206 and taking pictures. I didn't have hp/cx endorsement at the time, so I couldn't log the time. But it got me thinking. So I decided to get both hp and complex at the same time (to save money) and found a school with a C182RG.
Fast forward to present time. The school at my home airport just acquired a 182RG that I can now rent, which is great, because I have a ton of friends who want to go on sightseeing flights and in the C172 I was never able to fly with more than two pax (unless the pax were kids or lightweight short ladies). With the 182 I can happily carry 4 full grown adults and if we decide to go a little further than the usual local area, the extra HP gives you faster trips.
 
You could have logged the time when you were actually manipulating the controls. Acting vs Logging and all that. But would it be worth it for the few minutes you were flying the airplane? :dunno:
 
flyingron said:
Similarly, I am grandfathered into the HP and Complex endorsements because I was flying them as PIC before the regs changed last.
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I wonder if the additional cost/burden/paperwork has resulted in any sort of reduced mishap rates beyond what a normal checkout is or just more paperwork?

The C-182 flies pretty much like a Hawk XP with the 200 HP engine and CS prop. The C-182RG flies like a C-182 the wheels go up and down yet it cost me another AMU to get my endorsements in both beyond the 172 Hawk XP.
 
My personal experience has been that having endorsements and ratings that you don’t need is a good thing. This may not apply to any other pilot in the world, but...
I’m lucky to be flying a lot these days. Lucky because I like fly, and lucky to have had many aviation adventures often on someone else’s dime. The only reason this came to be was that I had that rating in my pocket when opportunities popped up.
 
Yes. You never know when an opportunity to fly a different airplane will arise, and when one does you do not want to say "I can't." Never stop learning.

Bob
 
Hippike said:
One day a photographer asked me to be his copilot while he was hanging out the window of his C-206 and taking pictures. I didn't have hp/cx endorsement at the time, so I couldn't log the time. But it got me thinking. So I decided to get both hp and complex at the same time (to save money) and found a school with a C182RG.
Fast forward to present time. The school at my home airport just acquired a 182RG that I can now rent, which is great, because I have a ton of friends who want to go on sightseeing flights and in the C172 I was never able to fly with more than two pax (unless the pax were kids or lightweight short ladies). With the 182 I can happily carry 4 full grown adults and if we decide to go a little further than the usual local area, the extra HP gives you faster trips.
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Of course, if you had flown this and logged it prior to August 4, 1997 (the “grandfathering date” of the current reg), even though you didn’t have the endorsement that was required prior to that date, you’d be grandfathered under the current rule.

I’ve seen one of those. It wasn’t pretty. ;)
 
Sure, it’s an excuse to get some Stearman time.
 
Yep, since to LOG PIC time doesn't necessarily require the endorsement, you could very well get grandfathered without a spec of training on HP operations.
 
We all don't know about you. Everyone only can provide their own point for you.
But, in my opinion, if you have a requirement, why refuse a learning opportunity?
 
MauleSkinner said:
Of course, if you had flown this and logged it prior to August 4, 1997 (the “grandfathering date” of the current reg), even though you didn’t have the endorsement that was required prior to that date, you’d be grandfathered under the current rule.

I’ve seen one of those. It wasn’t pretty. ;)
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??? What wasn’t pretty? ???
 
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