What do you check when short turnaround flights?

LongRoadBob

LongRoadBob

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Messages
1,393
Location
Oslo, Norway
Display Name
Display name:
Jacker
Just as an example. Say a situation where you are taking your extended family to a resort.
You have a four seater, and eight people to get up there. Of course you take up a seat too, so this means minimum three round trips. Say a two hour flight each way.

So you fly three passengers to the place, stop the engine, let them out and hand them their baggage, and now will start up again, for the return leg, and to pick up four more.

I know there are some that don’t use checklists, but whether you do or don’t, General checks anyway, would you do a preflight inspection again? Runup?

Or another way to ask, are there checks you would not repeat, since you are still flying from your initial checks? Either way, what is the thinking behind what you decide?
 
My thoughts, if I was doing those flights after the initial morning preflight and run up were good. After unloading pax's at each stop I would do a walk around and check fuel /oil depending on what the initial fuel load was and what my oil reading was. Once restarted I would do a run up every flight. A mag can **** the bed anytime, recently BTDT. Sounds like it will be a busy day moving family.

Don't forget W&B numbers for every load.

Safe flights!
 
Six 2 hour legs in one day? Man, I'd have to rethink my transportation plans.

But to answer your question, I think my most important check would be of myself (IMSAFE). Especially the S, F and E parts.
 
Engine turned off? I would do the run up each time, otherwise just test the flaps and as others said, check fuel/oil as needed.
 
GMascelli said:
My thoughts, if I was doing those flights after the initial morning preflight and run up were good. After unloading pax's at each stop I would do a walk around and check fuel /oil depending on what the initial fuel load was and what my oil reading was. Once restarted I would do a run up every flight. A mag can **** the bed anytime, recently BTDT. Sounds like it will be a busy day moving family.

Don't forget W&B numbers for every load.

Safe flights!
Click to expand...
Exactly this!
 
I do multiple flights in succession fairly often. If anything at all? Check oil, but probably not even that since I know my planes. I don’t repeat runups unless the airplane has been parked long enough to cool down.
 
Oil and gas. Tires and control surfaces. I can never check fluids often enough. A quick check of tires to make sure they have air and there aren’t any chocks or other things in the way. Control surfaces just for fun as part of a quick walk around. And it only takes a second to check the alternator belt.
 
Fuel and oil.
Propeller, if I've been landing on gravel.
"Controls free and correct" again since a new passenger might have a different size lap.
 
The mag isn't likely to fail as much as a plug failing or fouling. It takes what 15 seconds to do a mag check?
 
Given the scenario provided, I recommend checking the oil and completing the full takeoff checklist including a run up. If you leave the plane, add a walk around.
 
Last edited:
Wouldn't do it, sorry. I'd wind up too tired to enjoy the trip. Young Eagles flights are like this, and four or five sorties tires the heck out of me. For those flights I do one preflight at the beginning of the day, a walk around for each sortie, and a run up every time. I really do need to do the full run up so I don't forget the trim and flaps. Taking off with landing trim and flaps gets exciting quickly.
 
GMascelli said:
My thoughts, if I was doing those flights after the initial morning preflight and run up were good. After unloading pax's at each stop I would do a walk around and check fuel /oil depending on what the initial fuel load was and what my oil reading was. Once restarted I would do a run up every flight. A mag can **** the bed anytime, recently BTDT. Sounds like it will be a busy day moving family.

Don't forget W&B numbers for every load.

Safe flights!
Click to expand...

Thanks, just theoretical, I don’t have PPL yet.
And we can shorten it say to 1/2 hour each leg, I was mainly interested in what pilots would check in between each.

And some great responses. It’s enlightening.
 
JOhnH said:
Six 2 hour legs in one day? Man, I'd have to rethink my transportation plans.

But to answer your question, I think my most important check would be of myself (IMSAFE). Especially the S, F and E parts.
Click to expand...

yeah...we can drop it down since theoretical, to say 1/2 hr, 40 mins. Or so each leg.
 
jordane93 said:
Make sure you remove the chocks!
Click to expand...
Nah, just add more power. The Navion will roll right over most of the wimpy chocks provided. Now occasionally they shoved some of those airliner sized things in front of my wheels...
 
I would do a stand back look over just to make sure nothing obvious has happened in the short time it was sitting there. I would do a controls free and correct and a quick run up. Blast off. Couple hour flight I would check the oil but my plane uses a little, a half an hour no.
 
LongRoadBob said:
yeah...we can drop it down since theoretical, to say 1/2 hr, 40 mins. Or so each leg.
Click to expand...
That's more doable. I could see doing that. I'm low experience as well, but here's my take.

Assuming 40 minute flights and severe VFR (day)

Each stop - quick walk around for tires/drips/etc.
Rolling run up on way to the runway including mags, prop and controls.

I'd probably get fuel after a couple of runs, get a drink, and go pottie, then do a more full preflight before taking off again as a reset.
 
As many have said: If the engine is shut down (and it WILL be because you never let anyone out with the engine running) check oil & fuel, do run up and check controls free and correct. If I leave the airplane, add a walk around.
 
Quick check to make sure no oil is leaking, if it was a long flight or if next leg will be long (3+ hours) I will check the oil level. Otherwise I fire her up and go...
Edit: I have an engine monitor, so I know my fuel levels, mags are working, etc


Tom
 
How are you all checking the oil on a quick turn?
 
I don’t do a full walk around preflight but a fuel and oil check every time a general walk around and for sure my full checklists in the cockpit... full run up every time... it’s a 1 minute long ordeal...

I did a cursory quick mag check n go... once and in doing so forgot to adjust the trim and really could tell the difference in my little taildragger... after that- full runup list...
 
I commonly did 2 and 3 leg cross country flights of 2 to 3 hours each duration, and the stops were for fuel.

Every stop, I gave the fuel instruction to the attendant, closed my flight plan, re briefed, filed the next flight plan, and made any toilet stop needed.

My wife observed the fueling, and paid the bill, and made her bathroom visit. ( My wife took and passed a commercial flight ground school at the local community college. She knows what is important)

I then made a complete walk around inspection, including oil level, gas caps secure, and sump drains.

My wife and any passengers returned to the plane, and loaded aboard, seat belts checked, engine started, rolling run-up on the taxiway, and depart.


Cruise altitude to cruise altitude, flight time increased one hour per stop, but the net lost was less, about 30 minutes. Working as a team made the portion of the stop time on the ground much less than the solo equivalent.

ALL of my GOOD instructors insisted that every landing required a full recheck of the plane before departure.

I did take one lesson each with several CFI's who said that "It was running fine when I landed with the previous student, lets go", and were offended when I did a preflight any way. That attitude did not go with quality instructing, as I found repeatedly, as the lessons took place in the air.

Those pre flights did rarely find problems that would have been bad to deal with in the air. One such event avoided makes all the pre flights worth the trouble.

More than 80% of my logged time is cross country with my wife, and she is a valuable asset in the right seat as well as on the ground.
 
I use the checklist every time the engine is going to be started. Any time used that involves getting a plane ready for flight is not wasted time.

After trying to taxi over chocks and another time taking off with the door unlatched, full checklist use became a must do:cool:

Cheers
 
Flying with my CFI, he says I’m ready for my first solo. We park, go inside, he does my endorsement, I get back in, start up, taxi, run up. Mag check fails. Taxi back. I think he thinks I’m just scared. Gets in, does the mag check, same thing. He tries to burn off the plugs, no good.

It takes very little effort to do most of the preflight, compared to the effort and potential consequence if something goes wrong. I know it feels “weird”. Just do it.

I sometimes won’t re-check fuel, just cuz I need to pull out the step to check it (high wing). That’s not good. This post helps refresh my diligence.
 
LongRoadBob said:
Just as an example. Say a situation where you are taking your extended family to a resort.
You have a four seater, and eight people to get up there. Of course you take up a seat too, so this means minimum three round trips. Say a two hour flight each way.

So you fly three passengers to the place, stop the engine, let them out and hand them their baggage, and now will start up again, for the return leg, and to pick up four more.

I know there are some that don’t use checklists, but whether you do or don’t, General checks anyway, would you do a preflight inspection again? Runup?

Or another way to ask, are there checks you would not repeat, since you are still flying from your initial checks? Either way, what is the thinking behind what you decide?
Click to expand...
If new to it do a standard pre-flight ever time. Good practice. Now if you’re turning and burning, you get to know your airplane and its tendencies. I’ll check oil, do a broad walk around to make sure fuel caps are on, chocks are removed, then fire her up. Control check while taxing, and quick run up.
 
Spring Ford said:
I would check my arithmetic.
:)
Click to expand...

Oops.

Damn, you guys are unforgiving :), both of you!

I’m thinking when the day comes, I’ve got a lot of good points here to consider. Also, you have to log each leg in the log don’t you?
Each leg would definitely require engine shutdown, to let the passengers out (all ten of them) and I am still at this point determined to use checklists, and since I’m old I don’t see me getting so experienced I foregoing that. Might be different if I was thirty, or forty.
But obviously some checklist points would be overkill, I’d take them one at a time. Would plan on walk around, fluid levels check, run up. Checklist includes check for travel of the yoke, etc. so I wouldn’t skip that. That IS something I learned here. I had wondered why our checklist has us check travel, free and clear with ailerons, elevator, and someone kindly pointed out that you also do it just before takeoff because something could conceivably have changed, inside or out of the cockpit, and really it takes two seconds and is last chance before takeoff to be sure. But also the earlier check (which seemed redundant) would alert you if problems before you taxi out.
 
The whole operation is non-standard with a high count of distractors. Those distractors, aka passengers, loaders, greeters, are going to do everything in their power to make you forget something.

After the first flight, do a quick walk around each subsequent flight and check for leaking fluids, trailing scarves and of course those pesky chocks. If it had oil on the first flight, I’d just make sure it’s not leaking out but consider not dipping it; it’s hot and there are distractors walking around.

Do your standard cockpit checklist or flow on every flight. The distractors will do everything in their power to cause you to not set the trim or the flaps or to forget the iPad... and who put that chock there?

And of course shut everything down before doing anything including last minute exchanges of salutations, packages, sunglasses, etc. Everybody on the ground should be behind a fence, inside a building, on a leash or otherwise secured.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
flyingron said:
Nah, just add more power. The Navion will roll right over most of the wimpy chocks provided. Now occasionally they shoved some of those airliner sized things in front of my wheels...
Click to expand...

I saw a guy in an Aztec once that thought he would power up until he rolled over the chocks. 500 hp pulled the tail tie down anchor out of the ground and he taxied with a rope and a block of concrete behind him.
 
Last edited:
If I get out of the plane I do a oil check and walk around.

If I turn the engine off I do a run up.

All that takes maybe 5 minutes, worth it to make sure I make it back home to my family
 
I've got an abbreviated "reset" checklist that I use when departing from my 30-45 minute breakfast hops.

Visual walk-around to make sure tires are inflated, no leaking oil, etc.

Then,

Flaps up
Trim neutral
Cowl flap open
Fuel--select fuller tank
Mags both
Mixture rich
Full-power run-up to 2200 rpm
Canopy latched

I'm a big fan of having NO external gust locks. If it's windy, I use my internal lock that clamps the stick and rudder pedals together. Impossible to forget to remove it. In the OP's scenario, you wouldn't fit gust locks while just dropping off passengers, of course.
 
On any short turnaround, I will verify fuel and oil quantities, as well as inspect for oil leaks. (Leaks can spring up at any time--you never know--bad pushrod seal, loosening bolt or drain valve, etc.). I would also do a mag and instrument check prior to takeoff. Vacuum or electric instruments should respond properly during taxi. Mags can fail suddenly at any time, and it's better to know this on the ground than on initial climb. I've had quite a few mag failures over the years appear during a quick turnaround check.
 
I always walk around the airplane and look for damage and leaks. Years ago I came in at 2am in a KA200. The Chief Pilot was taking it out again at 5am so I cleaned and restocked the cabin but did not do a walk around it, BIG MISTAKE. I had just gotten to sleep when a mad Chief Pilot called me and started asking about the bird strike that had caved in the right wing leading edge. I had never noticed it and knew nothing about it, my mistake. We are still friends.
 
I’ve never heard a convincing argument for not doing a preflight every time you have the opportunity to do so. It implies that things are less likely to have broken or come loose on a given leg if the turnaround is quick enough. Which just doesn’t make sense.
 
FastEddieB said:
I’ve never heard a convincing argument for not doing a preflight every time you have the opportunity to do so. It implies that things are less likely to have broken or come loose on a given leg if the turnaround is quick enough. Which just doesn’t make sense.
Click to expand...
I think someone upstream said something about getting out of your normal routine. If I don't do all steps, I will have that feeling in my head that there's going to be something I missed. It may or may not be logical, but if I skip a step or two because I'm in a hurry, I'll be thinking about what I might have missed instead of paying attention to the flight. It isn't really complacency if you have reasons for it, but I fly so many different rentals so infrequently that I sort of conditioned myself to always check more than what some here would check on an airplane they are more familiar with.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top