Question about military Visual Routes

Velocity173 said:
We had a guy call our base (Ft Rucker) once and complain about helicopter noise just off our corridor. Said that he did have a shot gun and would use it on aircraft if necessary.
Click to expand...

Surprised that didn’t get forwarded to CID. Was this pre-9/11?

Velocity173 said:
...Right after that, we put a no fly area over his house. I actually thought it would be good actions on contact (small arms) for our students. :D
Click to expand...

I like your thinking. ;).
 
Velocity173 said:
We had a guy call our base (Ft Rucker) once and complain about helicopter noise just off our corridor. Said that he did have a shot gun and would use it on aircraft if necessary. Right after that, we put a no fly area over his house. I actually thought it would be good actions on contact (small arms) for our students. :D
Click to expand...

Back in the early 90's there was a guy near OLF Coupeville WA where we practiced Field Carrier Landing Practices (FCLPS) at night who decided that spotlighting jets would be good practice for "combat conditions" due to his opinion of the noise we created. This was after he bought next to an airport that had been there since 1945 and had been conducting the same operations with the same airplanes since 1968 and after he had signed the agreement that he knew what he was buying into. The FBI explained just why that was a bad idea before we got to act by putting a full 400 gallon drop tank in his foyer which would also be a good "simulation" for him. :rolleyes:

As to the OP. Assuming you get some action and a notice is put out to avoid the area, remember that you will get a lateral avoidance or a vertical avoidance (e.g. overfly above 1500 AGL or avoid by 2 miles) but it is unlikely you will get both and aircrew will make a choice on which to use based on the training they are trying to accomplish. If the lead is maneuvering a flight of 4 jets and have to stay in the lateral limits of the route, they will likely climb as an example. Safety of flight will always trump noise abatement.

It is REALLY hard from the ground to determine if the aircrew are in compliance so if I were you and you do get it I would only complain in the event of an obvious transgression. Over calling will get you ignored.
 
TCABM said:
Surprised that didn’t get forwarded to CID. Was this pre-9/11?



I like your thinking. ;).
Click to expand...

Post 9/11. Around 2007. When we got briefed on him we all immediately thought, well that’s gotta be illegal. Not sure what if any legal action was taken.

He claimed to be a Vietnam Vet and the noise sparked his PTSD so if true, we didn’t mind a slight detour. To be fair, his area was heavily trafficked. It was just off the corridor and a popular checkpoint the students used. I wouldn’t want helicopters flying 50 ft above my house everyday / night either.
 
Last edited:
Tarheelpilot said:
Good luck.

I don’t understand why you are complaining. Especially being a pilot. To each their own I guess.

just an observation. Not an invitation for you to explain why you are complaining. Please don’t mistake this for me actually caring about your motivations.
Click to expand...
My parents live directly under VR 1644, and they LOVE IT (they are not pilots). Their neighbors LOVE IT (As far as I know, they are also not pilots). I am a pilot, and I LOVE visiting when the route is active: 'Murica!

Personally I highly doubt "Pat Mason" is a pilot.
 
For those of you who would love the flights over your house, how many would you put up with before enough is enough? Everyone's tolerance level is going to be different. Let's substitute "aircraft" for something else, and I guarantee you're going to ***** about it.

For me, a couple times a month. Sure, no big deal. Daily or multiple times a day? F that.
 
EdFred said:
For those of you who would love the flights over your house, how many would you put up with before enough is enough? Everyone's tolerance level is going to be different. Let's substitute "aircraft" for something else, and I guarantee you're going to ***** about it.

For me, a couple times a month. Sure, no big deal. Daily or multiple times a day? F that.
Click to expand...
My parents have lived there for 19 years. During the summer, the f-16s and a-10s are multiple times per day. No bitching from them. They will call excited, "The two over the house today made the trees whip!" They and their neighbors truly love it. My mom sometimes sits on her back deck, camera in hand, trying to get a good picture.
 
Weekend Warrior said:
My parents have lived there for 19 years. During the summer, the f-16s and a-10s are multiple times per day. No bitching from them. They will call excited, "The two over the house today made the trees whip!" They and their neighbors truly love it.
Click to expand...

Again, that's them. Not him. I have an assbag with what sounds like glasspacks on a V-8 that loves to unnecessarily floor the gas pedal at 5 am every morning when driving by. That gets old in a hurry, especially since it wakes me and the dog up.
 
EdFred said:
Again, that's them. Not him. I have an assbag with what sounds like glasspacks on a V-8 that loves to unnecessarily floor the gas pedal at 5 am every morning when driving by. That gets old in a hurry, especially since it wakes me and the dog up.
Click to expand...
Sure. But when the OP starts saying cattle are bothered by it, I'm calling BS.
 
EdFred said:
For those of you who would love the flights over your house, how many would you put up with before enough is enough? Everyone's tolerance level is going to be different. Let's substitute "aircraft" for something else, and I guarantee you're going to ***** about it.

For me, a couple times a month. Sure, no big deal. Daily or multiple times a day? F that.
Click to expand...

Were you there first or was the airport/route/MOA etc? I have no room for someone who says "look at the great deal I got" then complains about the very reason it was a good deal.
 
Pugs said:
Were you there first or was the airport/route/MOA etc? I have no room for someone who says "look at the great deal I got" then complains about the very reason it was a good deal.
Click to expand...

I agree for the most part, IF VR's required to be disclosed by the realtor/seller. I know airports are, but am unaware if VR's are.
 
I think @pat mason should tell us his qualifications. Obviously he's qualified to post on an aviation forum and complain about those damn planes. How long you lived there NIMBY boy? Ever been in a GA Aircraft?

My advice is get a nice camera to enjoy the show, or a real estate agent to change shows. Ever heard "you can't fight city hall?" You're way beyond city hall when you start trying to **** with the military and the FAA. You'll get little support for that crap here. [Sorry to speak for everyone, but hey, we hear this aircraft, airport, too loud, to slow stuff far too often and this is not the source to garner "datas" for it]

Might as well sue the ambulance company for speeding and excessive noise. And those police that discharge firearms in the city limits.

EdFred said:
For those of you who would love the flights over your house, how many would you put up with before enough is enough?
Click to expand...

I lived under the final approach course to a NAS. It was cool hanging out by the pool and seeing them coming over... many times per day... different types, speeds, sounds. I've since moved about 2 miles. I can still see them when I look, but all I hear is the traffic at T67. Still cool, just more quiet and slow. Still plenty low.
 
Ravioli said:
I lived under the final approach course to a NAS. It was cool hanging out by the pool and seeing them coming over... many times per day... different types, speeds, sounds. I've since moved about 2 miles. I can still see them when I look, but all I hear is the traffic at T67. Still cool, just more quiet and slow. Still plenty low.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wouldn't live in that area. Not every pilot wants non-stop engine noise when they are trying to (pick any at home activity). Honestly, if I'm not flying the plane, I don't really give a **** about hearing or seeing them.
 
Even the urban canyons aren't safe from those F-16s
This guy was flying the lakefront by Chicago. The smoke trail gave him away to me- does that engine need "tuning"?
JAK_5169.jpg
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Even the urban canyons aren't safe from those F-16s
This guy was flying the lakefront by Chicago. The smoke trail gave him away to me- does that engine need "tuning"?
Click to expand...

That's the demo performance.

As far as tuning... no, most of our engines smoke a bit when we are selecting a huge change in power at low altitude. 20 years ago those engines didn't smoke. Unfortunately for all of us, engines are expensive and we are still using the same engines. Now they smoke. The demo guys are constantly working to stay within the lateral and vertical confines of the special airspace, not hit the ground, not black out from the g's and not go supersonic to break a bunch of windows. They are in AB then back to idle an awful lot so it's not uncommon to see a bit of smoke these days.
 
I'm sure he was some sort of demo, but he just flew by once- on the way to somewhere else?
I'm pretty sure he was was legal too, under the KORD Bravo shelf, but I'm sure he was talking to someone.
No afterburner, but not flying really fast, either. I wasn't expecting anything of the sort, so I only had my 250 mm lens, and this is heavily cropped. He wasn't near anyone at all.

Do the non-demo planes smoke like that too? If I noticed it, I'm sure someone who knows what to look for (adversary) would see it sooner.

JAK_5173.jpg
 
I am near a MOA and VR.
Sometimes you will see them ‘in the vicinity of’ these fanciful chart annotations, but equally we see them afar from the official lines (so we are always watching).
They don’t bother me.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I'm sure he was some sort of demo, but he just flew by once- on the way to somewhere else?
I'm pretty sure he was was legal too, under the KORD Bravo shelf, but I'm sure he was talking to someone.
No afterburner, but not flying really fast, either. I wasn't expecting anything of the sort, so I only had my 250 mm lens, and this is heavily cropped. He wasn't near anyone at all.

Do the non-demo planes smoke like that too? If I noticed it, I'm sure someone who knows what to look for (adversary) would see it sooner.

View attachment 80766
Click to expand...

Shaw (SW) is the home of the demo team, nothing on the wings and 540 has done several demos this year. Maybe there for “Da Bears” game?
 
I've no idea why s/he was there. I was happy to see him/her.

Thanks for the information.
 
ktup-flyer said:
F-16's doing low passes over your neighborhood? I fail to see the issue...
Click to expand...
Free daily air show. Lucky. All I get are the "Amazon" ABX/ATI/Atlas 767's for my free daily air show.
 
All the jets smoke sometimes. I'd love to have completely smokeless engines. That's not in the budget.

That configuration (nothing on the wings, no tanks and nothing on the wingtips) is referred to as "demo clean". All the jets have a ridiculous jump in performance with a little bit less drag. Unfortunately the demo and a very few mx flights are the only time the jets are ever flown in that configuration.
 
Precisely why the military needs to go with electric ducted fans. Smokeless and won’t disturb cattle on VR routes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top