I'm having a hard time making a decision.

If you can make a 182 work, hard to beat that solution.

However, be aware that the useful loads of the post-restart 182s are considerably less than the older ones, which have lower empty weights.
 
Southpaw said:
Nice 337 RG pressurized one for sale here . 37,000.00 if I heard it fight
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That is too low to be worth it. P337 might do it but that's multi, complex, and pressurized.
 
GRG55 said:
If you can make a 182 work, hard to beat that solution.

However, be aware that the useful loads of the post-restart 182s are considerably less than the older ones, which have lower empty weights.
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170 hour pilot, look at a T182T. 160+ kts TAS up high. Down low expect 25 kts ground speed over the Archer. Lots of room, plentiful parts, can be serviced at nearly any field. 1 owner 400ish hour plane about $375K.
 
iamtheari said:
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As far as avionics go, don’t buy based on those. They’re nice to have but you can add them. It’s much harder to add useful load, fuel capacity, or seats. If you find the perfect plane at a low price simply because it has an ancient panel, buy it and put in the panel you want.
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Yes, but the other way to look at this- it is easy to add avionics, but it is very expensive and can be tedious, in the era of the ADSB mandate. If you want or need a modern panel, I highly recommend you buy it WITH your used aircraft. Let the previous owner take the depreciation hit... I recently did the opposite, bought a beautiful RV that I love dearly, with a perfect, low-time engine, and for a good price. But now I'm really wanting better avionics... I have a commercial license and IR and would like to renew my instrument currency and just have a few more bells and whistles :). I doubt I will trade airplanes to improve my avionics suite because I am so happy with my RV, but if I had it to do over, I probably would make the panel a bigger part of my decision. My mistake.
 
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flyer770 said:
Any plane can be a maintenance nightmare, especially if said plane was neglected and had a lot of deferred maintenance before you bought it. I’ve heard horror stories of Baron maintenance hogs and dead reliable 210s and 310s. The high wing Cessna gear is definitely something that needs to be rigged by a knowledgeable mechanic though.
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Which C-210? They vary greatly. I have had a 1964 with struts since 1971 and negligible gear problems since the one time saddle replacement with the new design about 40 years ago. This model C-210 in NOT high maintenance (I do it all myself) and what's this about rigging? My plane has never been rigged since the factory did in it 1964.
 
If you want the safety of BRS and the views of a high wing, that is what I got.
My '76 C182 has 1180 lbs UL with the BRS. We have 710 lbs of payload with 80 gallons of fuel.
The views are amazing when I open the window and photography is super fun.
The baggage compartment is quite large even with the BRS.
 
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NordicDave said:
170 hour pilot, look at a T182T. 160+ kts TAS up high. Down low expect 25 kts ground speed over the Archer. Lots of room, plentiful parts, can be serviced at nearly any field. 1 owner 400ish hour plane about $375K.
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And this is a tempting proposition. Of course, then I plug some flights into FF and check flight times and fuel burns.

All of these are assuming the 4 of us (520 lbs) and 180 lbs of luggage, IFR flight with reserves plus an additional 10 gallons. These really make the BO look like a great bang for the buck, and I can pick one of those up with well-updated avionics for closer to 300K or less. As you said though, the 182 is great for her hobby of photography. Also, a much newer plane makes her a lot more comfortable as well. I like the idea of getting there faster, but on the other hand, the point of flying is to be in the air so who cares if it takes a little longer.

KFFC to KBCT - this is to visit our oldest child so probably 3 or 4 times per year at least.
Archer 4:08 35g 65% BE 11K
182T 3:39 42g 2400 MaxMP 13K
T182T 3:03 49g 75% 2400RPM 17K
T182T 3:08 47g 70% 2400RPM 17K
T182T 3:12 46g 65% 2300RPM 17K
T182T 3:27 43g 55% 2100RPM 17K
TNBO 2:27 47g 90% LOP 17K
TNBO 2:36 45g 75% LOP 17k
TNBO 2:43 43g 65% LOP 17K
550B 2:52 36g 25MP/2500RPM Lean 13K

KFFC to KJKA- This is an example of a 5 or 6 time per year weekend trip. We love the gulf.
Archer 2:50 24g 65% BE 8K
182T 2:16 31g 2400RPM Max MP 8K
T182T 2:12 35g 75% 2400RPM 8K
TNBO 1:39 32g 90% LOP 8K
TNBO 1:55 29g 65% LOP 8K
550B 1:44 26g 25MP/2500RPM LOP

KFFC to KEYW - This was just for fun. We probably wouldn't do this trip non-stop.
182T 4:20 53g 2400RPM Max MP 11k
T182T 3:37 57g 75% 2400RPM
T182T 3:39 53g 65% 2300 RPM
550BO 3:30 42g 25MP/2500RPM 15K

Any flights other than these are going to be similar in distance or just flying around the metro Atlanta area to stay proficient. My heart says Bo, but my head says 182T or T182T. My wife really likes the newer which means I automatically like it. It looks like my decision may be made.
 
Steve Andrews said:
I should not have worded it that way. I am very conservative and well aware of get-there-itis. What I meant is that if we are going some where as a family, I would rather have a plane that may be slower than a plane that requires to me to ship part of our luggage via common carrier or leave it at home.

As I talk to my wife, I realize that we really only need maybe 100 lbs more useful than what we have as long as we can fly 3 hrs with 1 hr reserve. So 1050 plus UL is fine. My wife wants the better view out of the high wing as she loves to take pictures and videos. This pushes me to the Cessna. I really think a 206 may be a good fit, but with the reduced UL need, a 182 would work as well. It still has more room than my Archer, is nearly as fast as a 206 and burns less fuel. I could also get a newer one for my budget and fly it for years to come.
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As a C206 (non-turbo) owner for 35 years I've managed the slower speed and somewhat higher fuel consumption (not much different than a C182) by simply leaving a little earlier and paying a little more for fuel, neither of which is really that big a deal in the whole scheme of things. The utility of the plane is fabulous though, and it's very rugged and versatile. (See this link for one example.)
 
As a fellow 182 owner, I agree you can't go wrong with the airframe. One thing to consider is building or finding an older P or Q model and doing a full-on high quality interior, panel, engine, etc. You could drop 150-200k and get a really nice older model with all of the avionics you're want, plus more useful load. I think there are some pitfalls of being locked into the G1000 system, that will become apparent in the next 5-10 years as the platform starts to get long in the tooth.
 
At those ridiculous Capex prices, I'd want turbo and air conditioner, in addition to the two doors. Otherwise, I think a legacy TR-182 would be a nice middle of the road option, and you could do an interior seat and panel refurbishment and still be capex money ahead.

It's fun spending other people's money! :D
 
Contact Van Bortel in Texas and discuss their 206 options. Very knowledgeable dealer with a great reputation. A 206 Meets your needs, comfortable, safe for your experience level, good resale value, reasonable insurance expense, easy to find qualified maintenance, no surprises.
 
Briar Rabbit said:
Contact Van Bortel in Texas and discuss their 206 options. Very knowledgeable dealer with a great reputation. A 206 Meets your needs, comfortable, safe for your experience level, good resale value, reasonable insurance expense, easy to find qualified maintenance, no surprises.
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Bortel is slightly premium priced but amazing service and only high quality planes. They also have a 1 year satisfaction guarantee, taking the pressure off on through pre-buy inspection. They make the buying process very easy. prices include flying the plane to your ramp for inspection. it’s like buying a CPO luxury car, but also returnable.
 
NordicDave said:
Bortel is slightly premium priced but amazing service and only high quality planes. They also have a 1 year satisfaction guarantee, taking the pressure off on through pre-buy inspection. They make the buying process very easy. prices include flying the plane to your ramp for inspection. it’s like buying a CPO luxury car, but also returnable.
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I called Blake over there today about a couple of planes. Then I made the mistake of looking at A36s again. It was an easy decision buying the Archer. I looked at it like buying a really nice car. Now I am considering planes that cost more than my house, and that is hard to wrap my mind around. The Cessna's value does seem to stay up there though based on prices I am seeing even for older ones.
 
Steve Andrews said:
Cessna T206H. Great useful load, but a little slower and not quite as good fuel economy. Fixed gear so a little less gear maintenance offset by more engine maintenance due to the turbo. Great airplane for flying somewhere to camp out though and we really want to do more of that as a family. I just feel like it's not much faster than my Archer.
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I can speak to the T206 and Van Bortel as well. I've been flying a 2009 T206H since May of this year. It's a beast for sure but a thirsty beast. I get TAS of 135-138 at 6000'-8000' and 140-145 at 10000'-12000. Get up higher to really take advantage of the turbo and you can get 160+. That is burning around 18 gph and you can slow down 10kts on those speeds and get to around 16gph. There are faster and more fuel efficient planes on your list but you sure can load a 206 up and have lots of fuel to fly on. The third row seats are easy to remove and give you lots more cargo room. If you're wanting to load up with people and stuff and go places it's a good machine for doing just that.
As far as flight characteristics, it's a high wing Cessna. Just make sure you get in some right leg squats and lunges to be in good shape for takeoffs and full power climbs. Rudder trim is a leg-saver!
Van Bortel is a good bunch of folks and will do just about anything to make a deal. There is a bit of a premium but you will get a premium plane.

iamtheari said:
Be careful of the 206, as I hear it’s a gateway drug that leads to Vision Jets.
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Now that you mention it...they do look pretty kick-ass!
 
Van Bortel is flying an 02 T182T out to us on Thursday for a prebuy. It wasn't even listed on their website yet, so I kind of lucked out since most of thew newer turbos have around 900-950 UL. This one is closer to 1050, and I needed 1025 plus. It is a pre G1000 so we avoid the pitfalls of trying to upgrade that system. It has 1400 TT, 300SFRM, 300 SPOH, Turbo was overhauled at engine reman, NDH, GTX345, GTN750, PFD1000, G5 (no more vacuum system), KAP140 w/alt preselect, EDM 830, WX500, TAS600, Garmin 696, always hangared. I hoped it is as nice in person as the description and pictures, but of course, they never are.

As a bonus, going pre-G1000 brings us in way under budget, which makes me happy. Just because I set a max budget, didn't mean that I wanted to spend that much. It also leaves plenty left over to upgrade the panel to what I want. We will fly it a while and then likely upgrade to a G3X and GFC500 AP. I figure if I sell the KAP140 and PFD1000 I can recoup some of the costs. Since it has a GTN750, and 696 I don't really need an MFD so the 10.6" will be about right. The only decision will be whether or not to remove the engine instruments and upgrade the 830 to a 930 or EIS in the G3x.
That would probably come down to how much weight could really be saved. The upside to having the old gauges is that I still have them in an electrical failure. I have a friend with an Arrow that lost power to his 930 so he no gauges. First world problems, right?

Of course, I am getting ahead of myself since I haven't even completed the pre-buy inspection yet. Based on what I have heard about Van Bortel, I don't see any problems.

On another note, Van Bortel has been really easy to deal with. They gave me nearly as much for my plane as I was asking, and the savings on sales tax offsets the difference. I was in the car business for a long time so I realize that some of that is being absorbed by the profit on the plane I am buying, but based on the prices I have been seeing on 182s, I think I am paying a fair although slightly higher price. I am willing to pay a bit more for top-notch service and ease of transaction anyway. He also took care of all of my requests on the plane like a new fire extinguisher, O2 hydrostatic, IFR certification (due in 3/2020), Cabin Cover, engine plugs, O2 masks including a microphone in the pilot mask (these may be original and unused from when the plane was new though).

I sent the loan application and required paperwork for the loan and was approved within 24 hours. When I bought the much less-expensive Archer, I used AOPA. It took almost 2 weeks to convince the bank to give me a loan with a higher percentage down. They wanted my business to be on the loan since that is where I get my income. It was ridiculous. The rate is also much lower this time.

Blake referred me to Halton Hall for insurance. My insurance through them will be 50% less than I was quoted by AOPA, and the AOPA quote was 1M/100K. Halton Hall is 1M/smooth. I will keep my AOPA membership, but I won't use them for loans or insurance anymore. Their vendors must think that they have a captive audience so they can charge what they want.
 
Sounds like you have settled on a good option for the next step. We need to see pictures when you close (not my rules, but that's the law).

Keep your eyes open for a nice Be58 to buy 2-3 years down the line ;-)
 
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