I'm having a hard time making a decision.

Steve Andrews

Filing Flight Plan
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Jan 11, 2019
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Steve Andrews
I am looking for opinions on my next plane. Since many of you have flown a variety of planes, I value your opinion. I have read and read and read some more, so I will probably get a lot of what I already read, but I am posting this anyway.

I am 1 170 hour pilot with my IR, and I own and have flown all of my hours in my 77 Archer, N743DS. I am not in a hurry to get a plane. It is more important that I find the right plane for me and my family.

My family has basically outgrown the Archer. With full fuel and the 4 of us, I can get about 60lbs of bags. That makes for aN anemic climb rate.

Here is what I need and or want.

1. 500nm range with a 60-90 minute reserve.

2. Enough useful load to carry the fuel required for above, 4 adults and 200 lbs of luggage.

3. 6 seats so that the 4 are more comfortable, and so if we want to do a short sightseeing trip with 6 people. It wouldn't be 6 adults or have a lot of bags.

4. Substantially more speed than I have out of the Archer. When we flew back from Florida the Sunday after Thanksgiving, we were averaging 60-70 knots ground speed due to the winds.

5. I like flying glass and it is what I am used to so I would like to keep it that way.

6. Waas GPS

7. ADSB in and out.

8. Autopilot with altitude preselect, and preferably selectable climb and descent rate.

The plan is to get the plane through the business so we get the tax advantages. I will discuss those details with an aviation accountant to make it work.

The budget is up to $400,000, but lower is better. I am not afraid to pay for the right plane.

We considered a twin for the second engine safety, but it is hard to swallow double the fuel burn and double the engine maintenance for very little increase in speed. On the other hand, I do like flying at night, and flying to the keys was fun so we will probably do it again.

The planes that I have studied that seem to be a good fit are as follows.

Baron 55. The downsides are mentioned above. The upsides are we can get one well below budget with room for upgrades. The rear seats are tiny though.

Baron 58. Like the 55, but better rear seats.

Cessna 310. Good speed and fuel burn. Good interior room and UL. Potentially a maintenance nightmare though.

We considered other twins, but unless we step up to cabin class the useful load isn't good enough.

Bonanza A36. On the surface, this seems great. It has speed and fuel economy, but I think the useful load could get tough as the kids continue to grow.

Cessna T206H. Great useful load, but a little slower and not quite as good fuel economy. Fixed gear so a little less gear maintenance offset by more engine maintenance due to the turbo. Great airplane for flying somewhere to camp out though and we really want to do more of that as a family. I just feel like it's not much faster than my Archer.

Cessna 210 non-pressurized. It gives us the speed and fuel economy of the Bo and the UL of the 206. This would be a no-brainer were it not for the retractable gear problems. This honestly seems like the perfect plane on paper were it not for maintenance issues (or so I have heard.)

I also considered Saratoga or an older variant or even a Mirage, but we still run into UL issues.

I am leaning heavily toward the T206H because it seems to give us most of what we want in an airplane. Really the only issue is that I would like the extra 30-40 knots of the 210, but again, I have heard that gear issues can run the same cost as an engine overhaul.

Am I missing anything I should be considering?

What are your thoughts? Also, do you know anyone within a couple of hours (by air) from KFFC who might have one of these planes that might be willing to take my wife and me up for a flight? I am happy to pay for fuel of course.

Thanks in advance for your help!
 
Ever consider a Navajo?? They like fuel but big and spacey. Can get for good price. Not overtly complex systems that break easily and chew of a lot of Mx money. I think sometimes ppl get hung up on fuel burn but fuel is cheap when compared to some of the mx nightmares that can exist.
 
Cherokee 300 or even 260. Roomy, similar to the piper flight quality you're used to and the 300 is faster. Add in decent upgrades options and you can make one your bird with that budget
 
For that budget and a 4 people mission, a later 310 should offer comfortable seating and good speed. I don't generally suggest continental engines to people I consider friends, but I caveat that with saying I'm ok suggesting them if you fly them in even numbers (zero is an even number), or odd numbers with a parachute. So a 310 fits the bill.

I would recommend the Aztec over the 310, but the speed probably would be a complaint. If I had that kind of money, I would go Aztec since I don't find 500NM a long enough distance of consequence to fiddle-**** about 15 knots of block time, and prefer Lycos. Good luck, first world problems with that budget!

:D
 
Skymaster?
 
How about the fastest production piston twin ever made?
 
You are going to transition from a low performance light airplane to a high performance complex heavier airplane. A Saratoga bests meets your budget, mission and your level of experience.
 
Ever consider a Navajo?? They like fuel but big and spacey. Can get for good price. Not overtly complex systems that break easily and chew of a lot of Mx money. I think sometimes ppl get hung up on fuel burn but fuel is cheap when compared to some of the mx nightmares that can exist.

Yes, but the insurance is crazy high, especially with my hours, and there are a lot of recurring ADs on them. I think the MX would get out of hand. It is a nice family
plane though.
 
You are going to transition from a low performance light airplane to a high performance complex heavier airplane. A Saratoga bests meets your budget, mission and your level of experience.
I am concerned about the UL of the Saratoga compared to the 206 or 210. I love the plane though, and it would be an easy transition. Maybe I should look for one with a higher UL.
 
I am concerned about the UL of the Saratoga compared to the 206 or 210. I love the plane though, and it would be an easy transition. Maybe I should look for one with a higher UL.

Compare a 210 and Saratoga apples - apples. The 210 holds 72 lbs less fuel.
 
You realize that you are going to have to make compromise somewhere right?
Yes, but with the wife and kids, I get the feeling the compromise is going to be the speed. I have to get everyone and their stuff their even if it means going a little slower.
 
Yes, but with the wife and kids, I get the feeling the compromise is going to be the speed. I have to get everyone and their stuff their even if it means going a little slower.
Aztruck
 
A friend just bought a Turbo Bonanza that cruises at 200 kts in upper teens. Huge range, huge cabin...
 
I don’t see why you’re concerned about gear maintenance on a 210, yet have a $400,000 purchase budget. Get a 210 or a Lance/Saratoga and be done with it.
 
Saratoga or Lance. You aren’t going to beat the cost-payload-speed Nexus you are asking for.

A twin is gonna be much more expensive to operate and maintain.
 
...
Cessna 310. Good speed and fuel burn. Good interior room and UL. Potentially a maintenance nightmare though.

...

Cessna 210 non-pressurized. It gives us the speed and fuel economy of the Bo and the UL of the 206. This would be a no-brainer were it not for the retractable gear problems. This honestly seems like the perfect plane on paper were it not for maintenance issues (or so I have heard.)...

Any plane can be a maintenance nightmare, especially if said plane was neglected and had a lot of deferred maintenance before you bought it. I’ve heard horror stories of Baron maintenance hogs and dead reliable 210s and 310s. The high wing Cessna gear is definitely something that needs to be rigged by a knowledgeable mechanic though.
 
I don’t see why you’re concerned about gear maintenance on a 210, yet have a $400,000 purchase budget. Get a 210 or a Lance/Saratoga and be done with it.
Yeah, I don’t see the connection between the budget and the concern on gear maintenance here. Most threads looking for this exact plane (family of 4 and bags, 500 nm range and fast) has a budget 1/4 of this one.
 
For that budget and a 4 people mission, a later 310 should offer comfortable seating and good speed. I don't generally suggest continental engines to people I consider friends, but I caveat that with saying I'm ok suggesting them if you fly them in even numbers (zero is an even number), or odd numbers with a parachute. So a 310 fits the bill.

I would recommend the Aztec over the 310, but the speed probably would be a complaint. If I had that kind of money, I would go Aztec since I don't find 500NM a long enough distance of consequence to fiddle-**** about 15 knots of block time, and prefer Lycos. Good luck, first world problems with that budget!

:D

"...fly them in even numbers (zero is an even number), or odd numbers with a parachute..." ????
 
You mentioned flying over water. I would go with a twin if you can budget as it (mostly) avoids the possibility of putting yourself and your loved ones in the drink. Single-engine failure guarantees a water landing, even in a Cirrus. If you have the money go with a twin.
 
Yes, but with the wife and kids, I get the feeling the compromise is going to be the speed. I have to get everyone and their stuff their even if it means going a little slower.

Steve, Take this advice to heart. You are a very low experienced instrument rated private pilot. You don't need to get everyone and their stuff there. You need to get them their safely. A multi engine aircraft is far above your experience level today and over the next few years. Having primarily Archer time, a Saratoga is your best option.

You can always overnight their junk to the destination airport and have it there waiting for you. I have done it many times.

You can’t buy experience, be smart.
 
How big are the people involved? Tall pilots struggle to get into the front of a PA-46. Stocky passengers struggle to get into the back of a 210.

If anyone in your family has a petite frame, consider 4-seaters that are reputed to have real room. That would include the RV-10 and SR22. Also the Bonanza 35, one example of which I know to cruise at 195 KTAS.

If you are all normal sized, though, your options listed above seem smart. Be careful of the 206, as I hear it’s a gateway drug that leads to Vision Jets. Keep in mind that, in the sweet spot of GA, a 500-mile trip like you’re doing, speed isn’t as important as comfort. Once you step up to 130+ knots, it takes bigger and bigger increases in speed to make a noticeable difference in time.

Try to get time in a PA-32R. They burn more fuel per speed than some other options but that’s just a function of comfort. You can’t fill the tanks and the seats but I believe you can haul your family and luggage 500 nm with an IFR reserve easily enough. And if you go farther without the kids, you can do it without a fuel stop.

As far as avionics go, don’t buy based on those. They’re nice to have but you can add them. It’s much harder to add useful load, fuel capacity, or seats. If you find the perfect plane at a low price simply because it has an ancient panel, buy it and put in the panel you want.
 
If your yearly flying budget isn't greater than $20k/yr....this discussion is meaningless.;)
 
If your yearly flying budget isn't greater than $20k/yr....this discussion is meaningless.;)

now now, we don't shame financed millionaires here. We condescendingly nod our heads and then laugh behind their backs like normal people.... :D


I was figuring that. I just don't get the even/odd metaphor to the punchline.
it was a riddle for I don't fly one-engine continental (without a chute). Try to keep up. :D /TC
 
Steve, Take this advice to heart. You are a very low experienced instrument rated private pilot. You don't need to get everyone and their stuff there. You need to get them their safely. A multi engine aircraft is far above your experience level today and over the next few years. Having primarily Archer time, a Saratoga is your best option.

You can always overnight their junk to the destination airport and have it there waiting for you. I have done it many times.

You can’t buy experience, be smart.

I should not have worded it that way. I am very conservative and well aware of get-there-itis. What I meant is that if we are going some where as a family, I would rather have a plane that may be slower than a plane that requires to me to ship part of our luggage via common carrier or leave it at home.

As I talk to my wife, I realize that we really only need maybe 100 lbs more useful than what we have as long as we can fly 3 hrs with 1 hr reserve. So 1050 plus UL is fine. My wife wants the better view out of the high wing as she loves to take pictures and videos. This pushes me to the Cessna. I really think a 206 may be a good fit, but with the reduced UL need, a 182 would work as well. It still has more room than my Archer, is nearly as fast as a 206 and burns less fuel. I could also get a newer one for my budget and fly it for years to come.
 
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