Clip4
Final Approach
No 1099 is required to be filed by me, but this isn’t a gift. It is a response to an online solicitation.
Bogus ADSB tracked landing fees
- Thread starter genna
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No 1099 is required to be filed by me, but this isn’t a gift. It is a response to an online solicitation.
bflynn
Final Approach
Excellent point. If I send you my address, will you gift me $14,999? I mean if you really have wealth, this is just about 2,142 non-chips away at it. It’s a bunch of non scratches.
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
Actually, it can. I don't have the wealth you, as a 1 percenter, do. So spending can reduce my wealth, by reducing the money I have saved. It can also affect future wealth.
Kenny Phillips
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Well, one seven dollar fee won't. But, say, you land at 15 airports in a day. I've done that. Chipping away can occur at miniscule rates, like a tiny water leak. All's fine until you see the water bill.
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
That’s a great analogy. I once had a pinhole leak in a pipe in the foundation. No symptoms until I got the $700 water bill.
File a fraud complaint, in the locale of the airport? Likely won't be pursued, but it'll cost the locl gov't something to deal with it. Also might ping AOPA? If enough of us complain, maybe. . . Or, pay it, then go to small claims or civil, shoot for some damages, as well. If nothing else, then they gotta show up and respond, costing more than the fee. Be sure to articulate it isn't an honest mistake, but a fraudulent and carelessly conceived system.
If someone here has the interest and time (retired lawyer?) we could all pitch in a few bucks, pick the most egregious sleazeball airport, do a class action? Just blue-skying here; after some time in local gov't, the motivators for them are money, money, money, and not getting bad publicity. No ones care if pilots are being scammed, so money is the hammer.
If someone here has the interest and time (retired lawyer?) we could all pitch in a few bucks, pick the most egregious sleazeball airport, do a class action? Just blue-skying here; after some time in local gov't, the motivators for them are money, money, money, and not getting bad publicity. No ones care if pilots are being scammed, so money is the hammer.
James331
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You think it’s reallt about the $7?
Also if every airport you ever fly near starts demanding $7 that’s going to add up
Clip4
Final Approach
The sky is not falling and evil airports aren’t conspiring to chip away at your wealth of saved lunch money.
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
I agree; it's probably just an error in methodology.
Katamarino
Pattern Altitude
I thought he worked the ramp at an FBO.
James331
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Just send them that $7 and see what it looks like in 5 years, 10 years.
If someone went to break into your house would you help them load your TV?
Theft is theft.
But you’re right, the sky isn’t falling, but much like a skin cancer best to have that little speck cut out than wait till it becomes something that’s really life or death.
Clip4
Final Approach
if I did, I retired
Many times I pondered put a sign in my house that say if you are here to steal my stuff, take all of it.
If you were well insured and had all the crap I do you might help them load.
Crashnburn
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Just the stuff in my garage.
Weekend Warrior
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Ghery
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And if this happens to me, I will send a firm but polite email declining to pay unless provided with a photo of my plane at your facility or an FBO receipt that I have a copy of. This kind of erroneous billing happens now when folks write down a transposed N number. So this is an old problem attached to new technology. Apparently my call sign is so confusing, ATC can't get it straight 2 times out of 3, so maybe someone else is paying my landing fees!
Transposed N numbers? Used to happen often when I was flying the club's Arrow. ATC would fail to find the flight plan (if flying under VFR) or transpose a couple numbers when flying IFR. I certainly can see this happening.
Witmo
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Just look at what is happening in China with facial recognition and their social points system. It's only a matter of time.
James331
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Thanks for driving insurance prices up.
That thought process drives me nuts and isn’t the change one wants to see in the world.
Also having to replace my stuff, I have no time for that, guess it just comes down to what type of principled man you are and what type of society you want to live in, I have zero room for looters / people trying to take from others.
But if it saves juuuuuuust one life!
And let’s not forget it’s for “the children”
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
I was just there for two weeks. They seem OK with it. However, I don't know if anyone would tell me if they were uncomfortable with all the surveillance. I don't know if they don't know what they don't have, or are, as a society, happy with the security. Getting onto a high-speed train is almost like boarding a commercial jet here- scan luggage, metal detectors for people. I have to go into the "VIP" line because I don't have an ID card, they will check my passport. I have gotten questions about the mass shootings here in the USA.
Hong Kong is another situation- it's not quite part of China. They still have their own currency, laws, and other rules. I can go into Hong Kong without a visa (and will probably do so soon), I need a visa to go into China proper. I have good friends in Hong Kong who used to live in China; they have lived in HK for several years. They consider the Hong Kong people to be "wayward children" who need to be brought back into the rest of China. This is despite the relative freedom they enjoy in Hong Kong.
I am not saying you are wrong; I'm just noting that it is their country and society. I wasn't comfortable over there knowing they had enough cameras to make a real life "Truman show" of my visit- if they wanted to torture people with boredom. I don't dare make comments about their government to my friends on WeChat, not even when I'm in the USA as I don't want to create problems for them which ranges from being kicked off-line on up. I guess that's the best measure of freedom, in that I can complain about the government stupidity here. I'm a little surprised no one there has asked me "Can you really say that?"
In a sense, one can argue we have a lot of surveillance now in the USA. My car asks if it can report to the manufacturer, and it sends location data. Our phones also send location data that is stored. People have tests done by 23 and Me. Our government can ask for data in such a way that each part doesn't tell you about a person, but when combined, can be used to place an individual at a location and time, and without a warrant.
Probably you're corrct, and exacerbated by not caring if a significant number of billings are in error. Whatever method(s) they are using are good enough to collect the bucks. Absent accountability, they'll just motor on.
Katamarino
Pattern Altitude
Ahh, that makes even more sense of his love for certain FBOs ripping us off! He's in on the scam.
Right, almost certainly just sloppy coding. "It works, good enough, release it." Bridgeport doesn't care, they just get regular checks. Only when it starts to cost more to handle the complaints than it would to fix the code will they bother to fix it, and maybe not even then.
"Never ascribe to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence."
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
What about the fundamental premise of billing someone for landing at a public airport? I have a problem with being charged for simply landing, taxiing back, and taking off. At an uncontrolled airport I didn’t use any services at all.
Clip4
Final Approach
A public airport is a service.
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
You often have difficulty with the meaning of words, don’t you?
Clip4
Final Approach
Salty if a public airport is not a service, who do you think maintains it the airport fairy?
Some time prior to your landing and taxi the airport surface is inspected for foreign objects, you at least used that service.
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Skyrys62
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Meet the Fokkers
So, just for information sake, as I do not know these things.... Does the FBO you are somewhat affiliated with take care of the airport, including runways, taxiways, towers, mowing, beacons, etc., of a public airport?
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
At an uncontrolled field? Un likely.
JohnAJohnson
Cleared for Takeoff
As others have said, those who value $7 are probably more wealthy than those who don't. In my younger days I did a lot of menial work, making much less than $7/hour and today, I still know the value of $7 even though I have lots more, and a plane, and the means to buy whatever I need to keep it, fly it, and maintain it.
Those who don't understand that $7 spent for nothing is unacceptable, no matter how fat their wallet, are indicative of "new, easy money" and will probably loose a lot of it before they wise up.
James331
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The fact that you don’t dare make a comment about it for fear of your friends safety speaks for itself.
People are like cows, you can do a whole ton of stuff to them, force them to walk in little lines, all sorts of stuff before you finally push them a little too far and get stomped.
I’m sure initially there were some well off Jews in Germany who were happy to see the government cracking down on those gypsies, after all it did prevent some crime, probably not until it was too late did anyone really wake up.
Government overreach is like compounding interest, doesn’t seem that impressive at first, but it doesn’t take long till it adds up.
Weekend Warrior
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Mr Madman
Leave it to James show Godwin's law! LOL
James331
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True, I should have used Mao instead, more fitting, also didn’t that government rack up a higher body count of their subjects too
We are heading down a bad road when we make government our new religion by our lack of action.
These MEN did this over being over taxed for tea, you got taxed on a landing....you didn’t even make, and you’re like “whatever”.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
I did indeed note that fact.
I suppose "how far" depends on the society. Hong Kong seems to have reached that point, while the people on the other side of the border support the crack down. People who came from the other side of the border support the crack down, too even though they have lived in Hong Kong for some years. Macau is adjusting "fine", from the point of view of the central government.
I'll take this statement as an indication of what may have been said. Perhaps the gypsies did criminal actions, perhaps it was locals doing the crime until the gypsies left since the gypsies made a convenient scapegoat.
Agreed. It also seems like some actions seem like government overreach when the other party does it, but it becomes OK when "my" party does it.
James331
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And that’s the litmus test, there are people I really don’t like, like antifa or the very few actual skinheads in the US, that said I will fiercely defend their right to speak, or bear arms, not be searched etc, though I’ll also use my rights to debate them or defend myself if sadly required
That’s the beauty of the bill of rights, you ether support it or you don’t, very simple despite how people like to cloud it to push their agendas.
Remember historically ones own government is a bigger threat to them than foreign countries or their own neighbors, take great suspicion in anyone who try’s to say otherwise.
And yes, demanding $7 is a start, just like overtaxing tea, heck at least they got the tea, dude didn’t even get a touch and go for the 7 buck shakedown.
JohnAJohnson
Cleared for Takeoff
I think there is more to it Jack. The mainland Chinese went through a revolution and the bloodletting of communist indoctrination. They are well adjusted to being part of the collective, whereas Hong Kongers were relatively free individuals until the handover, when they became communists overnight, with no indoctrination period required, and allowed to press on with pride as the financial engine of the PRC (in the early days).
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
It's more to it than that. What do you mean by "communist"? I'm not trying to be a wise guy, since the PRC is most definitely capitalist, with the main difference being that the land is owned by the state. Hong Kong was administered under the "One country, 2 systems" as formulated by Deng Xiaopeng. The Hong Kong Basic Law, negotiated prior to the handover, keeps Hong Kong as a "special administrative region" until 2047. The PRC is trying to start the changes in Hong Kong to allow integration by 2047 (that's their story). The Hong Kong people didn't become communists overnight, and aren't communists now. They want to keep the status quo ante bellum as long as possible. Maybe "bellum" is too harsh a term for the recent protests.
You'd be surprised at what they can talk about in the PRC, where books are published that depict the excesses of the Cultural Revolution. Liu Cixin's book "The three body problem" is well regarded, and doesn't show a pretty picture of the cultural revolution. I feel critique of the current government is a no-no, a change from about 5 years ago where such critique sometimes provided incentive for improvement. I don't feel people in the PRC feel like they are part of the collective now, but they are very nationalist, which is a different thing altogether.
Clip4
Final Approach
I don’t work the ramp.
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
A matter of time? DHS already proposed full-scale use of facial recognition and has since backed off. It is already here.