Is it bad to send pictures of an airplanes log books?

jd21476

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
693
Location
San Diego, CA
Display Name

Display name:
jd21476
I am selling my airplane and I have had a few requests for scanned pictures of the log book entries? Is it bad to send them to someone? Could they do anything malicious with them?

For example I see people that cover their license plates when selling their cars or even blur their N numbers when posting pictures.
 
This is a standard request from prospective buyers. If you choose to not send copies of the logs you will likely limit the number of people interested in your airplane. There really isn’t any risk in sending someone copies of log entries.
 
Standard practice. I have them scanned in PDF, but when I've been on the buyer side, latest 36 months worth of entries (usually 3-5 pages) via picture has been enough to figure out what I need to in order to proceed or move on.
 
Off the wall question. Your SSN us to be your certificate number. Should you block out the A&P/IA's certificate number for privacy?
 
Easiest way is just to take pictures of the logs. Start with the front cover of one logbook, open the book and take a picture of both open pages. Someone with Adobe Acrobat or any number of other programs can just gather the range of pics for each logbook and convert to a PDF.
 
As others have said, routine request from any knowledgeable potential buyer. Photos, scans fine. Never give your logbooks to anyone not working for you.

I use a very inexpensive app called Turboscan on my iPhone (6S)
It creates .pdf files directly from three consecutive photos it takes for each image/page using the phone camera. Excellent resolution and will create a single .pdf file from multiple pages if you wish, which can be stored and emailed directly from your phone. Quick, and so simple to use even I figured it out. :)
 
Why do people cover N numbers and license plates anyway?

If you use Android, Office Lens is free and does great PDF scans.
 
Off the wall question. Your SSN us to be your certificate number. Should you block out the A&P/IA's certificate number for privacy?
That cat is well out of the bag. At this point, there is no reason to do that.
 
What is your concern? That someone will commit airplane fraud using your copied logs?
 
Every year after the plane's annual is complete, I take a photo (as described by @Kristin above) of all the year's updated pages of all logs (the plane's and mine both), add them to the .pdf from the previous year, burn them to a thumb drive, and put it in the safe deposit box.
 
By the time I'm far enough into the discussion to be talking about logbooks, I'm comfortable with the buyer being who he says he is. Besides, I doubt any of the scammer scumbags even know what a logbook is.
 
If a seller isn't willing to send digital scans or photos of the logbooks, I'm certainly not willing to jump on an airline to go see the aircraft in person - don't care how much the seller thinks of their plane and the "you just have to see it to appreciate it" type (and they are out there....). I passed over a few aircraft before buying my former Mooney and Bonanza because of this.

With the airplane market being limited enough as it is, why limit yourself to just local buyers? Like the others, I was able to sell the planes faster with the scanned logbooks and, IMHO, had a bigger net to cast.

Brian
 
Is it bad to send them to someone?
Not at all. I research aircraft records on a semi-regular basis, all of which are copies/scans of the originals. If someone whose signature/cert # appears on the pages objects, simply black out their name and number just as the NTSB does on most of their public docs. It's an important part of an aircraft sale in my book.
 
Thank you all for the responses. I feel much better about sending log book copies.
 
Much safer than mailing the actual logs.
 
wouldn't consider buying a plane any distance without them not going to spend money to travel if there is a show stopper in the logs. Also I go over the logs with a fine tooth comb and am guessing you don't want to sit there for several hours while I do that. The plane I just bought and the several others I looked at I probably averaged 3 or 4 hours going through the logs per-plane and some were only an hour or so because there was a show stopper right off. When I am done I probably know the logs better than the owner. Definitely the case on the one I bought.
 
What do you all look for in the logbooks you receive? Honest question. I request logbooks when buying, too, but usually just look through and it’s like “yup, they changed the oil.”

I did find out and reject one airplane that had been flipped upside down, but that wasn’t in the logbooks - it was in the NTSB records.

Curious what you all look for?
 
We have sold one plane and I have helped sell 2 others. I always scan every damn thing there is. I also take about 50 pictures. Then I upload it onto a secure site. Then when someone is actually serious about the purchase I send them the link. Of those 3 sales I have never been asked for another picture of the plane or to have anything else scanned. Better to just do it all once up front. If you are serious about selling it, having everything possible made available instantly definitely helps. Next plane I sell will include a video clip or two as well.
 
Last edited:
What do you all look for in the logbooks you receive? Honest question. I request logbooks when buying, too, but usually just look through and it’s like “yup, they changed the oil.”

I did find out and reject one airplane that had been flipped upside down, but that wasn’t in the logbooks - it was in the NTSB records.

Curious what you all look for?

Oh many things. Mainly, usage frequency amortized for the previous 36 months. That's the big one for me. Some of us disregard an airplane outright if the use has been lower than our trigger point (personal secret sauce I'm not going to divulge). I'm much less concerned about TT (especially since I'm a buy low sell low participant anyways) than use frequency on a 36 month basis. That's why I value higher time engines with more frequent use, than paying a premium on a time bomb low SMOH engine suffering from sparse use but higher paper resale. Ask @ircphoenix (if he's still around) if that is or is not the case when it came to his first time ownership experience.

Then we look at time-to-go for repetitive ADs coming up, especially the big dollar ones uninformed buyers get snarled into, that the seller hopes the buyer is ignorant to. Additionally, big step functions expenditures followed by immediate for-sale is also indicative of the state of mind of the seller, or a precarious financial position that may or may not be of relevance in proferring a discounted offer. The logs tend to forensically hint at these subtexts especially when the 36 month lookback is devoid of entries. But that's more 3D chess stuff that's secondary to me than what I've described previously.

I've never elicited the services of an AP to conduct a pre-buy on my behalf, especially out of state. I'm not saying this is fool proof, but I have not felt I've been surprised by the hobby in approaching it this way. When I travel to the airplane is merely to verify the stated condition of the agreement, test fly, and cut the check. I accept the engine as a black box based on amortized use (I do verify data plates, did find one airplane with the wrong engine SN bolted to it, lol I ran from that mess). Otherwise, oh but for the grace of God go I.

I don't put much stock in out-of-state 3rd parties who are still local to the airplane, too much graft and dereliction for an inspection product with very unenforceable legal assurances. Plenty of sob stories on here for you to read about the trail of tears of owners dissatisfied, if not outright ripped off, by so called pre buys. But again, that's me, my risk tolerance, and 3 well-worn airplanes down the ownership path, sole-owned. Your monkey your circus.

A seller that is not forthcoming with scanned logs? Pft, next!
 
Curious what you all look for?
In general, it can vary from aircraft to aircraft, but the logbook trail should match the aircraft--if that makes sense. A pristine, top dollar aircraft should have an equally pristine paper trail. First and foremost is to see if the logs are complete back to leaving the production line. Next, the entries/records required in Part 91, Subpart E are present. Followed by a good comparison between the FAA aircraft file and the actual logs. From there, it gets a bit more subjective to the aircraft and situation.
 
What do you all look for in the logbooks you receive? Honest question. I request logbooks when buying, too, but usually just look through and it’s like “yup, they changed the oil.”

I did find out and reject one airplane that had been flipped upside down, but that wasn’t in the logbooks - it was in the NTSB records.
Curious what you all look for?

I wasted time traveling to look at a Tiger in Arizona years ago that was supposed to be NDH. Only got partial logs (I know shouldn't have traveled) and plane had entry from mechanic addressing an "off airport landing into 6 feet of saltwater" ... no engine inspection as according to the owner, the one on it at that incident only had 12 hours:eek::eek::eek::confused::confused::confused:

Had two others also that the owners lied regarding log issues such as equipment installed without, new avionics without a sign off (this was certificated not experimental aircraft).
 
Back
Top