Mustang Mach E

tspear said:
Not really, it prevents the car from baking in the summer but it really does not pre-cool the car down when the temp is 95+.
Same for winter; my drive into town today, the tiny engine was unable to produce heat in the cabin until I was halfway into the city.

Tim
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I have an insulated garage. No problem in winter or summer. I thought about putting a heater in the garage but just don't need it. The remote start warms up the car, which raises the temp in the garage. In the summer I have forgotten to turn on the A/C and not realize it until I get to my destination and reach to turn it off.

Plus it is nice since I don't have to send my wife out to remove snow from the car.. :lol::lol:

if your small car is not heating up very quickly, check for low coolant level or the thermostat. The Subaru my wife drives puts out heat by the time we get out of the driveway even without starting and letting it run for 15 minutes.
 
FastEddieB said:
As EV range inexorably increases, for the most part “the rest of us” will gradually be pulled into EV’s.

There is an EV range number that will finally “click” for most drivers. 200 miles? 300? 500? 750?

300 to 500 would meet 99% of our needs. For the other 1%, we’d keep our Clarity with its 42 mpg highway numbers as a hybrid for trips where we’d rather not worry about charging.
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Honestly, I don't know that there is a finite range number that would do it for me. Maybe 500 miles in all weather would do it, with certain knowledge that I can recharge anywhere I park for the night. Unreasonable? Absolutely not, it's what I have now with my gasoline powered vehicles. We use that capability regularly enough that it matters, and our plans include using it a lot more. We enjoyed our week-long road trip, and will do it again.

We've owned a hybrid, a 2010 Fusion Hybrid - meaning, a couple generations of technology back. If we can buy a hybrid version of what we want without a significant cost premium, we will. Not something we'd pay a lot extra for, though, or shop specifically for.
 
EdFred said:
you know, *that* particular mustang II doesn't look so bad. But still the worst looking of all the Mustang body styles.

This new Mustang is the equivalent of Porsche making station wagons.
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Jaguar making SUVs.
 
Tantalum said:
Pro's
Con's
-why does the front of every American car look like a children's toy or like something out of the movie Cars? They took the Tesla grill and made it childish.. I really hate these faux-happy-goofy smiles that just about every Ford and Chevy (non truck) has.. and the trucks are no better, the grills they put on the trucks are the equivalent of the roid-rage "bro" who spends 6 hrs each day at the gym and brags about how much ***** he gets even though he can't actually maintain a stable relationship more than 3 weeks and his circle of friends consists entirely of Jager Bombs and partying
--mind you, foreign brands are no better.. Lexus looks like a xenomorph coming at you, and BMW's newest kidney grills are getting bigger and bigger. It's honestly only Jeep, Audi, and Kia:eek: that still have decent looking fronts on cars anymore. But I understand this is also personal choice
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Hate hate hate the Lexus front end. Not too fond of the Ford sedan front ends, either. Somehow, that horizontal grill is really annoying.
But then, I also despise LED headlights. I'm finding as I get older, the eyes cannot tolerate those things at night. IIRC there are growing number of research studies indicating that direct LED is harmful to the eye, as in truck headlights for those of us driving closer to the ground.
 
murphey said:
Hate hate hate the Lexus front end. Not too fond of the Ford sedan front ends, either. Somehow, that horizontal grill is really annoying.
But then, I also despise LED headlights. I'm finding as I get older, the eyes cannot tolerate those things at night. IIRC there are growing number of research studies indicating that direct LED is harmful to the eye, as in truck headlights for those of us driving closer to the ground.
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Yes, I am surprised LEDs are DOT legal... they're BLINDING!
 
DaleB said:
I shudder to think what that would do to one's electric bill. I replaced all the incandescent bulbs in our house with CFL, then replaced the CFLs with LEDS to reduce our electricity use. Somehow I suspect switching to plug-in EVs would simply replace what we spend on gas (not a lot) with increased electricity use -- not to mention the premium paid for EVs to begin with.
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Driving an EV costs about 1/3 of the fuel cost, depending of course on your local rates. For reference, when I got my first PHEV I spend $140/mo less in gas, but my electric bill increased only $40/mo. So, a net savings of $100/mo.

Shuswap BC said:
Those same people probably consider themselves to have " Gone green", despite 24/7 heating or cooling a vehicle that is not being driven.
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That's not how it works. You tell the car what time you're going to leave, it spends a few minutes just before then topping off the battery and heating/cooling the cabin. I don't think there are any EVs that are even capable of heating/cooling 24x7 except maybe a Tesla in Dog Mode, and you have to specifically turn that on every time.
 
tspear said:
My garage is attached. But it is not part on the HVAC.
No garage I have had between four homes has had HVAC. It was an option on one for an extra 20k (including insulation).

Tim

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk
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i never said it had HVAC. But the back wall, one side wall, and ceiling are all shared. It is warm enough in the winter that all the snow melts off and in the summer it doesnt get over 75. An extra 20k is just you getting raped. It takes maybe $1000 worth of materials to insulate and run ductwork to.
 
EdFred said:
i never said it had HVAC. But the back wall, one side wall, and ceiling are all shared. It is warm enough in the winter that all the snow melts off and in the summer it doesnt get over 75. An extra 20k is just you getting raped. It takes maybe $1000 worth of materials to insulate and run ductwork to.
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The 20K, was a builder option on a home I almost bought/built in NC.

I have never shared more than two walls. In my current case, the single shared wall is two foot think stone foundation. Not exactly a great medium to transfer heat :)

Tim
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Driving an EV costs about 1/3 of the fuel cost, depending of course on your local rates.
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The latter part of that is key.

For many, running an EV right now can actually cost a tad more than on gas. As you say, it depends on gas price and electric rates, but when gas is around $2.25 a gallon one can easily approach a point of parity. There are online calculators where you input electric rates and gas price and it will compute relative cost. I’d be curious how your 1/3 number was calculated.

For instance, our Clarity gets about 42 mpg on gas, so right now $2.25 takes us 42 miles. Right now our EV range is about 42 miles, and our electric rate is 10.1$¢ per kWh. That puts us very close to a “push”, so we don’t worry too much about going into hybrid mode. Of course, many parts of the country pay more for either gas or electricity or both, so that has to be figured in.

Of course, aside from fuel savings, if any, there are no oil or filter changes and brakes may last the life of the car, with most braking done via regen. But countering that is the eventual cost of battery replacement, so it’s not that simple.
 
Larry in TN said:
I think something was lost in translation for the older brother to the poster.

You don't run the car's heat/air 24/7. You use the app on your phone to have the car pre-heat, or pre-cool, before you take it out, and then, only in extreme conditions.
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Okay, when I read it, that sounded like 24/7 the climate control was on keeping the temp perfect, so anytime an owner was wanting to go for a drive it was ready. I can't begin to imagine how much power that would use per year. I can park my truck with the heat or AC left turned on, push the remote start button and it will pre warm or cool it, but i rarely do. I usually just start it, put on my seatbelt, and look to see if the oil pressure gauge is in the normal range, and if so put it in gear and drive away.
 
Shuswap BC said:
Okay, when I read it, that sounded like 24/7 the climate control was on keeping the temp perfect, so anytime an owner was wanting to go for a drive it was ready. I can't begin to imagine how much power that would use per year. I can park my truck with the heat or AC left turned on, push the remote start button and it will pre warm or cool it, but i rarely do. I usually just start it, put on my seatbelt, and look to see if the oil pressure gauge is in the normal range, and if so put it in gear and drive away.
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Right. Wouldn't make any sense.

I doubt preconditioning is used much more often on an EV than your use of the remote start.

Strange thing, for me, when I test drove a Model 3 was how there was no starting it or even turning it on. It was a hot July day. When I opened the driver's door the A/C immediately came on (no engine to start). No "Start" button, either. I put my foot on the brake, pushed the stalk down once to select "Drive" and drove away. I hear that Tesla owners sometimes walk away from an ICE car with the engine still running because they just put it in "Park" and leave--just like their Tesla. LOL
 
Larry in TN said:
Right. Wouldn't make any sense.

I doubt preconditioning is used much more often on an EV than your use of the remote start.

Strange thing, for me, when I test drove a Model 3 was how there was no starting it or even turning it on. It was a hot July day. When I opened the driver's door the A/C immediately came on (no engine to start). No "Start" button, either. I put my foot on the brake, pushed the stalk down once to select "Drive" and drove away. I hear that Tesla owners sometimes walk away from an ICE car with the engine still running because they just put it in "Park" and leave--just like their Tesla. LOL
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My girlfriend's grandfather does that now, and he has never driven an ev. He has had to stop driving recently, he will occasionally forget where he is, where he left the car, even where home is...but he has come home and parked in the driveway, just left the car running for hours until someone noticed it. Dementia sucks, and it is unsafe for him to go out alone, forget still drive. When I drive a Tesla occasionally it is weird to not "start" it. I'm the guy who would likely freeze or sweat my butt off if I owned a tesla, trying to conserve the battery because I would have range anxiety so badly. I couldn't ever own a straight electric vehicle, my OCD over range would have me in a constant anxiety situation. Or else it would have to be an ev with about 2000 kms of range under the worst conditions and roads imaginable, so after a long day of driving, I could get home with 30% battery left no matter what. I also can't fly somewhere and land with the 45 minutes of fuel left in my plane when VFR. Yes the regs say that I only need to have 45 left in the tanks, but my brain will not let me fly that low on fuel.
 
FastEddieB said:
For many, running an EV right now can actually cost a tad more than on gas. As you say, it depends on gas price and electric rates, but when gas is around $2.25 a gallon one can easily approach a point of parity. There are online calculators where you input electric rates and gas price and it will compute relative cost. I’d be curious how your 1/3 number was calculated.

For instance, our Clarity gets about 42 mpg on gas, so right now $2.25 takes us 42 miles. Right now our EV range is about 42 miles, and our electric rate is 10.1$¢ per kWh. That puts us very close to a “push”, so we don’t worry too much about going into hybrid mode.
Ah, but you're already driving a 42mpg hybrid. For my Ford Fusion Energi the break-even gas price was about $1.85/gal (at $0.13/kWh for electricity). I haven't calculated the break-even on the Volt because I'd be driving it on electrons as much as possible anyway. Fewer trips to the gas station = less of my time wasted, and it's smooth and quiet.

My last gasser got 24 mpg. Gas here is $2.40/gal, so I'd be spending 10 cents/mile on gas if I still had it. Most EVs get about 4 mi/kWh, so with charging efficiency taken into account, one should be spending 3.6 cents per mile in EV mode. The Volt is about 38 mpg in hybrid (gas-burning) mode, or about 6.3 cents per mile in fuel cost.

Of course, aside from fuel savings, if any, there are no oil or filter changes and brakes may last the life of the car, with most braking done via regen. But countering that is the eventual cost of battery replacement, so it’s not that simple.
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You're assuming the battery will require replacement. So far, it looks like any car with a decent BMS and liquid cooled battery will likely never need to be replaced.

Nissan did not do well with the earliest Leafs (MY 2011-2012), they did not do well in hot climates and quite a few batteries were replaced (under warranty). Other than that, I'm not aware of any makes/models that have poorly performing batteries. Tesla and GM in particular have done a very good job with their batteries. My 2013 Volt with over 100K miles still makes full rated EV range - more than rated in mild weather, less in harsh, just as would be expected from a brand-new battery, so it appears I have suffered zero degradation. And that's true even though I'm doing mostly highway miles, where range normally suffers a little compared to rated.
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Shuswap BC said:
I'm the guy who would likely freeze or sweat my butt off if I owned a tesla, trying to conserve the battery because I would have range anxiety so badly.
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Actual EV owners say that their range anxiety faded away in their first week of ownership.
 
The math is simple if you compare it to the national average MPG and cost per gallon of gas right now. Average MPG is 25 and cost is $2.60 per gallon. In my case, I drive just over 1,200 EV miles a month. That’s 34 charges (Chevy Volt) at only $1.20 per charge or around $40 per month. Now, if I had an average MPG car or even my Subaru (27 mpg), to go 1,200 miles at 25 MPG is 48 gallons. That’s roughly $120 per month.

So, $40 vs $120 or around a 1/3 of the cost in gas. But, that’s not all. Most of us have employers that let us charge at work. For me, around half of those 34 charges are done at work for free. So you can cut that $40 down to around $20.
 
Velocity173 said:
The math is simple if you compare it to the national average MPG and cost per gallon of gas right now. Average MPG is 25 and cost is $2.60 per gallon. In my case, I drive just over 1,200 EV miles a month. That’s 34 charges (Chevy Volt) at only $1.20 per charge or around $40 per month. Now, if I had an average MPG car or even my Subaru (27 mpg), to go 1,200 miles at 25 MPG is 48 gallons. That’s roughly $120 per month.

So, $40 vs $120 or around a 1/3 of the cost in gas. But, that’s not all. Most of us have employers that let us charge at work. For me, around half of those 34 charges are done at work for free. So you can cut that $40 down to around $20.
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Depending on how far you live from work, you could potentially forego charging at home, saving (yourself) even more, at the expense of your employer.
 
I just had lunch with a friend of mine that owns a "real" Mustang. 50th anniversary edition. I asked him what he thinks of the new E-Mustang.

He just rolled his ideas and faked sticking his finger down his throat to throw up. He said when he first saw it he thought about turning in his Mustang Club membership card.
 
JOhnH said:
Depending on how far you live from work, you could potentially forego charging at home, saving (yourself) even more, at the expense of your employer.
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In the case of the gen 1 Volt, I don’t have many miles left over when I get home so it wouldn’t help. 8 1/2 hrs to a full charge of 35 miles range. The Volt was intentionally designed for my demographic. That is, 80 % of the work force drives 40 miles or less to work.

Now if I had a 300 mile Tesla type range, our 220 outlet at work would leave a lot left over in range. I’d be willing to bet that the company would have something to say about the increase in electric bills. Which brings up another factor with the future growth of EVs. As they get more popular, the whole free charging at working that most of us enjoy will go bye bye.
 
Velocity173 said:
In the case of the gen 1 Volt, I don’t have many miles left over when I get home so it wouldn’t help. 8 1/2 hrs to a full charge of 35 miles range. The Volt was intentionally designed for my demographic. That is, 80 % of the work force drives 40 miles or less to work.

Now if I had a 300 mile Tesla type range, our 220 outlet at work would leave a lot left over in range. I’d be willing to bet that the company would have something to say about the increase in electric bills. Which brings up another factor with the future growth of EVs. As they get more popular, the whole free charging at working that most of us enjoy will go bye bye.
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More likely what will happen is they just won't increase the number of charging ports. Four ports (for example) may be enough now, but in 10 years, it might require 20 or more. The company will just leave the four for the early birds.
 
JOhnH said:
More likely what will happen is they just won't increase the number of charging ports. Four ports (for example) may be enough now, but in 10 years, it might require 20 or more. The company will just leave the four for the early birds.
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Not just ports but cost. Right now I’m only 1 of 14 charging at my work. The extra $20 a month in electricity is minuscule. If it went to say, 7 of us charging? You’re looking at needing an electrical system upgrade and the company dealing with at least $140 extra a month. In the case of a Tesla hooked up to a 220 outlet, even more. All depends on how open the company is to EVs. It’s one thing to allow us to charge our iPads and iPhones, a whole other thing to allowing us to charge our cars.
 
murphey said:
Hate hate hate the Lexus front end. Not too fond of the Ford sedan front ends, either. Somehow, that horizontal grill is really annoying.
But then, I also despise LED headlights. I'm finding as I get older, the eyes cannot tolerate those things at night. IIRC there are growing number of research studies indicating that direct LED is harmful to the eye, as in truck headlights for those of us driving closer to the ground.
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I would not be surprised if someone wins a product liability lawsuit over these someday. Another huge one in my mind is blinding LEO vehicle lighting.
 
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JOhnH said:
I just had lunch with a friend of mine that owns a "real" Mustang. 50th anniversary edition. I asked him what he thinks of the new E-Mustang.

He just rolled his ideas and faked sticking his finger down his throat to throw up. He said when he first saw it he thought about turning in his Mustang Club membership card.
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''Real Mustang''
70-Ford-Mustang-boss-429-1.jpg


I would take this one if someone gave it to me, because I sure could not afford to buy it.!!
 
bnt83 said:
I would not be surprised if someone wins a product liability lawsuit over these someday. Another huge one in my mind is blinding LEO vehicle lighting.
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And now hiding the red/blue lights so you can't see it unless directly ahead or behind the vehicle. I almost got t-boned by a cop that going through a red on the cross street. Couldn't see the flashers, it was unmarked. Only after I crossed in front of it could you see the emergency lights. All in the name of "public safety"
 
The only problem that hasn't been addressed when discussing EV is the fact that if it only meets 80-90 percent of your mission you will need another vehicle to cover the remaining portion. That means more out of pocket money that could be used for investing, double the insurance, double the garage space, etc.........
 
1RTK1 said:
The only problem that hasn't been addressed when discussing EV
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Oh, I'm sure people will keep digging up examples that prove that a Tesla is not perfect, and not for everybody.

is the fact that if it only meets 80-90 percent of your mission you will need another vehicle to cover the remaining portion. That means more out of pocket money that could be used for investing, double the insurance, double the garage space, etc.........
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If a car (any car) doesn't meet up to 20% of your mission, then that is not the right car for you. But going with you logic, I would think there are very few Tesla buyers that don't already have another car. The exception would be a single person. But even my bachelor brother has two cars; An F150 and a little Honda something or other.

There are hundreds of cars to choose from. There is a chance that many of those cars will meet almost all of "somebodies" requirements. But I wager there is NO car out there that will meet all of everybodies requirements. It might turn out that the 300 mile Tesla won't meet my mileage requirements and that the $70k version won't meet my budget requirements. But I could live with either of them just fine, unless I find something else that I like as much, that doesn't cost too much more and has as much to offer. Ford says they expect to launch an E-F150 in the next couple of years. I will keep an eye on that, but I have more faith that Tesla will come through first, and with more bang.
 
JOhnH said:
Oh, I'm sure people will keep digging up examples that prove that a Tesla is not perfect, and not for everybody.

.
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It is a fact that it isn't perfect for everybody, why do people keep trying to say it is when it is not. See Below

JOhnH said:
Oh, I'm sure people will keep digging up examples that prove that a Tesla is not perfect, and not for everybody.


If a car (any car) doesn't meet up to 20% of your mission, then that is not the right car for you. But going with you logic, I would think there are very few Tesla buyers that don't already have another car. The exception would be a single person. But even my bachelor brother has two cars; An F150 and a little Honda something or other.
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I drive a 4 door 4x4 F-150, it meets 100% of all my missions even though 80% of the time I could do with something else, but then I would have to buy another vehicle for the other 20%.

#1 It's has more room than any full sized sedan
#2 I can can haul/tow anything I need to
#3 It has a locking bed cover so I can take 5 people to the airport with luggage for all, can't do that in any full sized sedan
#4 I go hunting in some isolated spots and need a 4 wheel drive
#5 Go to the snow occasionally, no chains required

No EV on the market meets MY needs and I have no desire to own another vehicle, those who keep trying to sell the advantages of one are blind to my needs.
 
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1RTK1 said:
It is a fact that it isn't perfect for everybody, why do people keep trying to say it is when it is not. See Below
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Nobody's trying to say that an EV is the be-all, end-all for every person. But, there are a LOT of misconceptions out there among non-EV drivers that lead to them thinking an EV isn't an option, when it really is.

I drive a 4 door 4x4 F-150, it meets 100% of all my missions even though 80% of the time I could do with something else, but then I would have to buy another vehicle for the other 20%.

#1 It's has more room than any full sized sedan
#2 I can can haul/tow anything I need to
#3 It has a locking bed cover so I can take 5 people to the airport with luggage for all, can't do that in any full sized sedan
#4 I go hunting in some isolated spots and need a 4 wheel drive
#5 Go to the snow occasionally, no chains required

No EV on the market meets MY needs and I have no desire to own another vehicle, those who keep trying to sell the advantages of one are blind to my needs.
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So you need a truck. But there is absolutely nothing in your list that would preclude it being an electric truck, once they're available.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Nobody's trying to say that an EV is the be-all, end-all for every person. But, there are a LOT of misconceptions out there among non-EV drivers that lead to them thinking an EV isn't an option, when it really is.
.
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EV would actually be an option for me going to work and probably a better option at that, unfortunately I don't want to put out the money or have the extra car.

flyingcheesehead said:
So you need a truck. But there is absolutely nothing in your list that would preclude it being an electric truck, once they're available.
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I will seriously consider that if they come out with one that looks conventional, a hybrid type with "gas back-up" would be even better.
 
1RTK1 said:
I will seriously consider that if they come out with one that looks conventional, a hybrid type with "gas back-up" would be even better.
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I agree, but the problem is that the hybrid types cost a bunch more. You have to have both technology types and they have to work together seamlessly.
 
Some sort of a little built in backup generator for piece of mind in the back country would be nice though.
 
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1RTK1 said:
Some sort of a little built in backup generator for piece of mind in the back country would be nice though.
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A little honda inverter generator with a small gas can could do that. But a built in one would be better.
 
JOhnH said:
I agree, but the problem is that the hybrid types cost a bunch more. You have to have both technology types and they have to work together seamlessly.
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My wife definitely could drive an EV for her purposes, fortunately she will be getting a GT-350 or GT-500 this year, of course it will be "her car" but I can drive or track it when I want:)
 
JOhnH said:
I agree, but the problem is that the hybrid types cost a bunch more.
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Seems like they would, but the PHEV's on the market do not seem to be priced higher than the pure EV's. Possibly the reduced cost of smaller batteries offsets the increased cost of the small ICE and associated hardware. Or they may be getting sold right now as loss leaders or compliance vehicles. Or some combination of the above.

You have to have both technology types and they have to work together seamlessly.
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True, but I can say at least Honda has done a very good job in that department with the Clarity.

A little honda inverter generator with a small gas can could do that. But a built in one would be better.
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The latter sort of defines a PHEV.
 
FastEddieB said:
The latter sort of defines a PHEV.
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Of course, but I was talking about the E-Mustang. It is not a hybrid, so to handle the backwoods situation, a portable generator would work. But built in would be better. But just a built in generator and built in gas tank still falls far short of an integrated PHEV, like you have.

In cars like yours, the extra cost of the integrated gas engine is a trade off in battery-only range. I don't understand why companies like Tesla don't make more hybrids. But I guess their reasons are the same reasons the Volt failed. I was sorry to see that happen.
 
1RTK1 said:
My wife definitely could drive an EV for her purposes, fortunately she will be getting a GT-350 or GT-500 this year, of course it will be "her car" but I can drive or track it when I want:)
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You Sir, are a VERY lucky man!

Zeldman said:
''Real Mustang'' I would take this one if someone gave it to me, because I sure could not afford to buy it.!!
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Absolutely this. I'd even "settle" for a Boss 302, or most definitely a Shelby GT350 or GT500 of the same vintage.
 
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