Power outage/shutdown in CA

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...the crap that's being shoved down our throats here in Denver originated from California ...
"we moved because we hate what was happening there ... now we're going to make our new home exactly what we left"
I just don't get it.
I don't get how California is apparently strong enough to withstand the changes these groups would make to have things more to their liking, but apparently other cities and other states appear to simply roll over when the Californians come to town.

Nauga,
who enjoyed every place he's lived
 
Who said it’s withstanding it?

Only difference between CA and a state about ready to die like say CT, is CA started off with much more.

It’s like gut shooting a deer with a 308 and gut shooting a squirrel with a 308, both end up just as dead, just one takes longer than the other to conclude.

D2-AF8987-B2-B9-4-A33-A9-BC-03-E62-AD84-C76.jpg


A VERY good breakdown of the health, or lack thereof, of the states.

https://www.mercatus.org/publications/urban-economics/state-fiscal-rankings

Bigger the gov smaller the citizen, smaller the citizen the sicker the state.
 
How many states' budgets are in the red without the feds (ie NY, NJ, CT, California, etc.) kicking in? It was 2/3's last I checked.

There is more than one way to look at these things.

Two edged sword. How many state budgets would be in the black without federal unfounded mandates?
 
Two edged sword. How many state budgets would be in the black without federal unfounded mandates?
Fair question and one I'm frankly not going to bother looking into, but I have little doubt that wouldn't tip the scales on the taker states (who all hate the federal gubmint with a passion, ironically).
 
Most of the places I'd like to live, outside of Montana, have really annoying politics unfortunately. I genuinely don't get the appeal of NY, CT, etc... you get the annoying politics, over population, etc., without any of the benefits of good weather, pretty scenery, fun things to do, etc. VT, Maine, at least have mountains, coastlines, less people

American Dad summed it perfectly in the episode they buy the rights to Stomp and move to NYC... everyone is miserable and hates it just pretends to be happy

Most of New York is rural farmland or wild forest. Other than New York City, there are only four cities with populations of 100,000 or more, and they're separated by hundreds of miles. We also have no shortage of mountains or beaches, if those things are what you're into, as well as excellent hunting and some of the best trout fishing in the world.

We also have an excellent State University system; and most of the K-12 public schools outside the urban centers don't suck.

If you want food, we have every kind of food in the food-eating world. I personally detest eating out, but for those who enjoy it, there's no shortage of all manner of cuisine from the mundane to the bizarre.

As for the weather, it is what it is. The snow falls, we move it, and life goes on. Even New York City, which used to be paralyzed by even minor snowstorms, has figured it out. When I was a kid, an inch of snow would snarl the city. Nowadays, snowfalls measured in feet are usually cleared in a day at the most. They've made a lot of progress in that area. The state as a whole has finally come to grips with snow.

Except for Andy Cuomo, that is. He still has this annoying (and yet also comical) impulse to react to every report of a snowflake fluttering toward the earth by donning his mask and cape to save the rest of us from the fluffy white menace, invariably snarling traffic across the entire Northeastern United States and parts of Canada in the process. Fortunately, NYSDOT and NYSTA seem to have mastered the art of distracting Andy long enough for them to get their work done.

Left to their own, NYSDOT's and NYSTA's snow-removal is actually pretty impressive to watch. It's like a ballet, but with snow plows instead of dancers wearing tights and tutus. NYSDOT usually uses one plow per lane in tight formation. NYSTA usually uses "trailer plows" that clear two or three lanes, with another plow bringing up the rear to push it all onto the shoulder. But both agencies will use either method. They move along at quite a clip, too.



The Upstate snow also sustains life in New York City because it's the spring thaw that fills their reservoirs. A winter with scant snow Upstate makes Downstate officials very, very nervous.

All in all, New York State isn't a bad place to live if you avoid the cities; and even as cities go, none of them are as horrible as some I've been to elsewhere in the United States or overseas. Some, like Syracuse, are almost pleasant.

We do, however, have ridiculously high taxes and annoying, nanny-state laws and regulations. The nanny-state stuff is worse in the cities than the rural areas, but the taxes are high statewide.

Rich
 
Fair question and one I'm frankly not going to bother looking into, but I have little doubt that wouldn't tip the scales on the taker states (who all hate the federal gubmint with a passion, ironically).

Which on are "taker states"?
 
Who said it’s withstanding it?

Only difference between CA and a state about ready to die like say CT, is CA started off with much more.

It’s like gut shooting a deer with a 308 and gut shooting a squirrel with a 308, both end up just as dead, just one takes longer than the other to conclude.

D2-AF8987-B2-B9-4-A33-A9-BC-03-E62-AD84-C76.jpg


A VERY good breakdown of the health, or lack thereof, of the states.

https://www.mercatus.org/publications/urban-economics/state-fiscal-rankings

Bigger the gov smaller the citizen, smaller the citizen the sicker the state.
That links says that the chart is based on fiscal-year 2016 reports. California has developed a significant surplus since then.
 
All in all, New York State isn't a bad place to live if you avoid the cities
The same can be true for many places though.. you couldn't pay me enough to live anywhere in the Bay Area or closer than San Clemente / Camarillo to LA..

nanny-state laws
Unfortunately this is getting worse everywhere... how about our laws are simply:

-be a reasonable and honorable person
-don't lie
-don't cheat
-don't steal
-don't kill

But this is going to either get too philosophical or political for PoA.. so I'll leave it at that.
 
States that take more from the feds than they pay.

You mean states can just take from the Federal Treasury? Here I thought the House appropriated the money. Once again, we pay federal income taxes to the federal treasury. Two thirds of what is taken in is paid out in what has been determined to be non-discretionary spending the other third is appropriated by the House. If you don't like the process, get your state to secede from the country and go on its own. I rather thought your type was in favor of fairness, sharing and all.
 
Here I thought the House appropriated the money.

0a0b6d24-8152-4e79-a72a-010d52c25b1d_1.3b4f19ea758218bfb544c0de31e9ba06.jpeg

If you don't like the process, get your state to secede from the country and go on its own. I rather thought your type was in favor of fairness, sharing and all.
I'm aware of how the federal government works, and I support it. I am stating the facts, not making some emotional or political argument.
 
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You mean states can just take from the Federal Treasury? Here I thought the House appropriated the money. Once again, we pay federal income taxes to the federal treasury. Two thirds of what is taken in is paid out in what has been determined to be non-discretionary spending the other third is appropriated by the House.

And again, the bulk of the money that is routed to the state is tied to federal programs the state administers on behalf of the feds. They are not 'taking' anything. They receive $100 to pay out $120 in federally mandated medicaid services.
 
If your argument is that high income earners pay a much larger percentage of total income tax revenue, and those earners are concentrated in certain states, that is correct. But the government grossly overspends above and beyond that number, and the ones being taken from are the next generation of taxpayers, as they will face both the current spending requirements and have to make larger and larger payments on the massive pile of debt.
 
And again, the bulk of the money that is routed to the state is tied to federal programs the state administers on behalf of the feds. They are not 'taking' anything. They receive $100 to pay out $120 in federally mandated medicaid services.
Misdirection. This statement does not invalidate mine. Eleven states pay more in federal taxes than they receive in federal spending; the opposite is true for the other 39. Them's the facts.
 
If your argument is that high income earners pay a much larger percentage of total income tax revenue, and those earners are concentrated in certain states, that is correct. But the government grossly overspends above and beyond that number, and the ones being taken from are the next generation of taxpayers, as they will face both the current spending requirements and have to make larger and larger payments on the massive pile of debt.
The former is not my argument, and I agree with you on the latter.
 
Most of New York is rural farmland or wild forest. Other than New York City, there are only four cities with populations of 100,000 or more, and they're separated by hundreds of miles. We also have no shortage of mountains or beaches, if those things are what you're into, as well as excellent hunting and some of the best trout fishing in the world.

We also have an excellent State University system; and most of the K-12 public schools outside the urban centers don't suck.

If you want food, we have every kind of food in the food-eating world. I personally detest eating out, but for those who enjoy it, there's no shortage of all manner of cuisine from the mundane to the bizarre.

As for the weather, it is what it is. The snow falls, we move it, and life goes on. Even New York City, which used to be paralyzed by even minor snowstorms, has figured it out. When I was a kid, an inch of snow would snarl the city. Nowadays, snowfalls measured in feet are usually cleared in a day at the most. They've made a lot of progress in that area. The state as a whole has finally come to grips with snow.

Except for Andy Cuomo, that is. He still has this annoying (and yet also comical) impulse to react to every report of a snowflake fluttering toward the earth by donning his mask and cape to save the rest of us from the fluffy white menace, invariably snarling traffic across the entire Northeastern United States and parts of Canada in the process. Fortunately, NYSDOT and NYSTA seem to have mastered the art of distracting Andy long enough for them to get their work done.

Left to their own, NYSDOT's and NYSTA's snow-removal is actually pretty impressive to watch. It's like a ballet, but with snow plows instead of dancers wearing tights and tutus. NYSDOT usually uses one plow per lane in tight formation. NYSTA usually uses "trailer plows" that clear two or three lanes, with another plow bringing up the rear to push it all onto the shoulder. But both agencies will use either method. They move along at quite a clip, too.



The Upstate snow also sustains life in New York City because it's the spring thaw that fills their reservoirs. A winter with scant snow Upstate makes Downstate officials very, very nervous.

All in all, New York State isn't a bad place to live if you avoid the cities; and even as cities go, none of them are as horrible as some I've been to elsewhere in the United States or overseas. Some, like Syracuse, are almost pleasant.

We do, however, have ridiculously high taxes and annoying, nanny-state laws and regulations. The nanny-state stuff is worse in the cities than the rural areas, but the taxes are high statewide.

Rich
I think you just described California.
 
I have lived in the SF bay area for 19 years and have a cabin in the Sierras (not Tahoe, the wannabe State of Jefferson area) for about 10 years. The bay area clearly leans in one political direction and the mountains lean in the opposite. Spending time in both of these very different areas (not all California is the same and if you think it is, you have never been here). One thing is for sure, folks love to pick a side and stick with it "just because". For instance, one side of aisle doesn't want trees cut down, ever. And the other side is ok with cutting trees down for use. When PGE wanted to maintain the space around its power lines, the side that is ok with cutting down trees got there knickers in a bunch because how dare PGE come on my property to cut down trees. It was humorous and sad all at the same time.

For the record, PGE has been on my property and removed hazard trees at no cost to me and cleaned up after themselves. Several years ago, they would just mark them and then one day, they would be gone. Then they started doing what I consider excessive notification. I always said ok but, others decided to make a stink. I'm not suggesting PGE is in the clear for this mess but, as my parents used to say when my brothers and I were beating the crap out of each other, "its takes two to tango". Mom also used to say "there is a more than one way to skin a cat" but, I never understand why you would skin a cat in the first place. I've learned that sometimes its better not to ask too many questions about sayings from someone who grew up in West Virgina, I digress.
 
Misdirection. This statement does not invalidate mine. Eleven states pay more in federal taxes than they receive in federal spending; the opposite is true for the other 39. Them's the facts.

Doesn't invalidate it, was a true but meaningless statement to start with.

'States' don't pay federal income tax, individuals and corporations do. With the concentration of financial services and wealth in a few states and the magic of progressive taxation, the tax burden is not equally distributed. I wish it was, but it isn't. On the inflow side, you keep asserting that these states are 'takers' when they are not. They receive money from the feds to administer fed programs. Iow they get money to spend on things they wouldn't spend on if it wasn't for some federal mandate.

I understand why people in NYS need that mental crutch about the 'taker states:. If I got fleeced the way NYS taxpayers get fleeced, I would look for an explanation too.
 
Who said it’s withstanding it?

Only difference between CA and a state about ready to die like say CT, is CA started off with much more.

It’s like gut shooting a deer with a 308 and gut shooting a squirrel with a 308, both end up just as dead, just one takes longer than the other to conclude.

D2-AF8987-B2-B9-4-A33-A9-BC-03-E62-AD84-C76.jpg


A VERY good breakdown of the health, or lack thereof, of the states.

https://www.mercatus.org/publications/urban-economics/state-fiscal-rankings

Bigger the gov smaller the citizen, smaller the citizen the sicker the state.

When was the last time the US as a whole had a balanced budget?
 
When was the last time the US as a whole had a balanced budget?

Compared to C.A. the US is rolling in the cash


That links says that the chart is based on fiscal-year 2016 reports. California has developed a significant surplus since then.

CA has a surplus???????

CA has a worse debt to income ratio than a 20yr old valley girl with a Starbucks job, a credit card and large closet lol

And NY is almost worse, not quite as bad laws wise, or property price wise, but the women and climate suck compared to CA
 
Exactly ... because the crap that's being shoved down our throats here in Denver originated from California ...
"we moved because we hate what was happening there ... now we're going to make our new home exactly what we left"
I just don't get it.

A rant against Craftsman or ranch-style homes?

You're free to leave Colorado, just as Californians are free to move there...
 
Doesn't invalidate it, was a true but meaningless statement to start with.

'States' don't pay federal income tax, individuals and corporations do. With the concentration of financial services and wealth in a few states and the magic of progressive taxation, the tax burden is not equally distributed. I wish it was, but it isn't. On the inflow side, you keep asserting that these states are 'takers' when they are not. They receive money from the feds to administer fed programs. Iow they get money to spend on things they wouldn't spend on if it wasn't for some federal mandate.

I understand why people in NYS need that mental crutch about the 'taker states:. If I got fleeced the way NYS taxpayers get fleeced, I would look for an explanation too.
You keep going back to one federal program to try and make your point. It keeps not working. When a state has a huge imbalance in what it pays in federal taxes vs. what it receives in federal spending, it has to compensate. They do this by raising their own taxes. And states that get piles of cash from the taxpayers of other states can lower their taxes. It's not difficult to understand. State and federal taxation are not separate issues.

And as a New Yorker, I'm not getting "fleeced". I've lived in low-tax states before. New York is a much better place to live. Opinions vary. But I'll gladly pay what I pay to live here.
 
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CA has a worse debt to income ratio than a 20yr old valley girl with a Starbucks job, a credit card and large closet lol

And NY is almost worse, not quite as bad laws wise, or property price wise, but the women and climate suck compared to CA
Are you talking about the state itself or the people within the state?
 
A rant against Craftsman or ranch-style homes?

You're free to leave Colorado, just as Californians are free to move there...

Yes. But you shouldn't be driven out your house by a horde.

And yes, I was asking for a list of the "taker" states. I found a list of the worst offenders myself. California is about neutral.
 
You're free to leave Colorado, just as Californians are free to move there...
I lived in Colorado for many years, and found that most of the people I knew had moved from other midwestern states, not California. And I left Colorado for California. Voluntarily. But I was choosing between two specific residences. That said, I'm not sorry I made the move. For me, there are more plusses than minuses, not that it's perfect, but no place is perfect.
 
I'm not alleging anything, it's a fact. New York has been paying more in federal taxes than it receives in federal spending for at least 50 years, and probably much longer than that.

Can we overlay your "interesting" fact with the average income by state?

Also, please pass along some info on how New York is paying federal taxes. < The State does not
Then, define federal spending.

Don't bother, it will be nonsense. I'll just conclude with:

Thank you New York! Keep up the good work.
 
They do this by raising their own taxes.
But I'll gladly pay what I pay to live here.
Curious. So you're saying is that because people in New York support/vote for the highest state and local taxes in the nation that the SALT Cap is unfair to New York because they, as a state, receive less Federal monetary assistance than the amount of federal income taxes they, as a state, pay out to the IRS?
 
A rant against Craftsman or ranch-style homes?

You're free to leave Colorado, just as Californians are free to move there...

nope ... I have nothing against craftsman or ranch... And, I left CA just as quickly as Uncle Sam let me go home. Too many followed me here.
 
Curious. So you're saying is that because people in New York support/vote for the highest state and local taxes in the nation that the SALT Cap is unfair to New York because they, as a state, receive less Federal monetary assistance than the amount of federal income taxes they, as a state, pay out to the IRS?

Whether it's fair or not is debatable. I just think it's absurd to consider money forcibly taken by one government instrumentality to be income taxable by another. In the case of income taxes paid by people with with W2 income, the taxpayers never even touched that money because it was forcibly withheld from their paychecks. How can money they never had be considered income?

Rich
 
You’re throwing stones about climate and women while living in *Alaska*????

Climate wise Alaska is up my alley, I prefer overcast to annoying sun.

Women wise, quality over quantity ;)

CA should just export their women, and maybe after they run out of money and the drug fueled bums eat everyone al la walking dead style, normal people could go back and re populate it lol
 
You keep going back to one federal program to try and make your point. It keeps not working.

83% of 'aid to the states' is tied to medicaid and S-CHIP, everything else (TANF, child support enforcement, social service block-grants) is a rounding error. I use medicaid, as an example for a basket or programs that work the same: The feds require the state to do something and they reimburse the state under a formula that is written into either statute or regulation.

Even in the area of 'discretionary' spending like transportation, the state gets the money based on a funding formula. E.g. for interstate mainteance funds, that formula looks at highway lane miles, miles driving and the amount commercial truckers in the state pay into the transportation trust fund. Whether a state covers their budget with a state income tax, a state sales tax or a mineral extraction tax has no bearing on how the federal highay funds are apportioned.

When a state has a huge imbalance in what it pays in federal taxes vs. what it receives in federal spending, it has to compensate. They do this by raising their own taxes. And states that get piles of cash from the taxpayers of other states can lower their taxes. It's not difficult to understand.

Is that what you think ? Explain to me how the state pays taxes to the feds. I missed that part.

And as a New Yorker, I'm not getting "fleeced". I've lived in low-tax states before. New York is a much better place to live. Opinions vary. But I'll gladly pay what I pay to live here.

We are proud of you ! We need more enthusiastic tax payers.
 
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Except without the relentless disasters.

Rich
Sort of, California is a really big state. I have lived here for over 18 years and have yet to have a "disaster" actually impact me. By impact, I mean change how I go about my day. Sure, its been smoky at times and dry. I'm not downplaying the hardships (and worse) that some had experienced. I just mean that when the media says California is shaking or California has no power, or California is on fire, etc its not the whole state.

Correction, I did get snowed in without power for 3 days once in the Sierras but, that was awesome, backcountry snowboarding in the backyard! And traffic has changed my plans more than once.
 
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