Need Help With Plane Pricing

Sinistar

Sinistar

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Brad
So we're looking at yet another hangar. Another all to familiar case of a family (90yo widow in this case) needing to sell a hangar full of stuff and definitely doesn't want to deal with it. Possibly included in the hangar are 3 planes. Let's just assume all have motors that would need to be gone through and rebuilt. Any clue on the value of these:

#1: Cub? Looks like a Piper Cub and has the same logos but is labeled experimental and I see "C-Cub" listed on the registration and a date of 2005. We previously owned a fabric plane and the fabric and paint looks very good. The seats and panel look nice. I don't see any signs of rodents. The cowlings and tires are off but the motor is installed and not opened up. Not sure if it an annual that never finished or something else.

#2: RV-4. This one looks nice. Registered in 2000. Tires are flat and looks like motor work was being worked on. Interior and even the canopy are in fantastic shape. No sign of rodents. I feel this one might have the highest scrap/parts/restoration value. Is this a candidate for a Harmon Rocket? If so we might keep this one in the hangar and take our time selling it. It's a low wing and would fit easy behind the 182 while we find a buyer.

#3: Quickie Q2. It's up in the loft...yeah...crap! I think it's the nose wheel version. I can see the canopy is in nice shape. I couldn't get close enough pics but I think the pilot side forward canard thingy was not on it. I could verify the copilot side kenard, top wing (both sides) and engine cowling were all in place. I feel this one is worth the least, if not just scrap.

Ps. None have any avionics of value.
 
I'd like to start the bidding at $1
 
Sinistar said:
Another all to familiar case of a family (90yo widow in this case) needing to sell a hangar full of stuff and definitely doesn't want to deal with it. Possibly included in the hangar are 3 planes. Let's just assume all have motors that would need to be gone through and rebuilt.
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Donate to AOPA for their next sweepstakes?
 
Hang 4 said:
"C-Cub" = Carbon Cub? - if so that could be interesting.
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Might be a Cubcrafters product, but not a Carbon Cub if it's dated 2005.

Sinistar said:
So we're looking at yet another hangar. Another all to familiar case of a family (90yo widow in this case) needing to sell a hangar full of stuff and definitely doesn't want to deal with it. Possibly included in the hangar are 3 planes. Let's just assume all have motors that would need to be gone through and rebuilt. Any clue on the value of these:

#1: Cub? Looks like a Piper Cub and has the same logos but is labeled experimental and I see "C-Cub" listed on the registration and a date of 2005. We previously owned a fabric plane and the fabric and paint looks very good. The seats and panel look nice. I don't see any signs of rodents. The cowlings and tires are off but the motor is installed and not opened up. Not sure if it an annual that never finished or something else.

#2: RV-4. This one looks nice. Registered in 2000. Tires are flat and looks like motor work was being worked on. Interior and even the canopy are in fantastic shape. No sign of rodents. I feel this one might have the highest scrap/parts/restoration value. Is this a candidate for a Harmon Rocket? If so we might keep this one in the hangar and take our time selling it. It's a low wing and would fit easy behind the 182 while we find a buyer.

#3: Quickie Q2. It's up in the loft...yeah...crap! I think it's the nose wheel version. I can see the canopy is in nice shape. I couldn't get close enough pics but I think the pilot side forward canard thingy was not on it. I could verify the copilot side kenard, top wing (both sides) and engine cowling were all in place. I feel this one is worth the least, if not just scrap.

Ps. None have any avionics of value.
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Unless you and your wife like to fly separately you don't want to have two airplanes that are too close in performance. You'll always fly the same one, and never the other.

I'd keep the Cub if it looks like a good build. That would be a nice pairing with the family hauler 182; something comparatively inexpensive to fly just for the fun of it, and into places you might not want to take the Cessna or a low wing speedster like the RV-4.

Being an RV, the -4 shouldn't be difficult to find a buyer, if it can be put into flyable condition without major heroics. Might be the quickest of the lot to sell, given the Vans network. The Harmon Rocket modification has to be done during construction as it involves a number of significant parts substitutions, and re-pitching the ribs for a shorter wingspan.

The Q2 might have a Revmaster, which might bring a few $.
 
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The RV4 can’t be converted to a Harmon Rocket. It has to be built as a HR since there are numerous substantial changes including a wider cockpit, longer fuselage and shorter wing. The wing retains the same number of ribs as the RV4 however they are closer together resulting in a shorter span.
A RV4 should be a quick sell if the basic construction is good. Put it on the Vans forum.
 
If the Cub is experimental there’s no annual necessary. Depending on engine and equipment it may be a turd or it may fetch $100k. Hard to say. Look up the N number and the builder/model name will rule out Cubcrafters.
 
James331 said:
How about James boat fund, I’ll even send you a hat
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Well the back of this hangar has a 50'x20' shop (unfinished) with a boat and trailer...but I don't think its a boat or trailer you'd wish on a enemy.
 
GRG55 said:
Might be a Cubcrafters product, but not a Carbon Cub if it's dated 2005.



Unless you and your wife like to fly separately you don't want to have two airplanes that are too close in performance. You'll always fly the same one, and never the other.

I'd keep the Cub if it looks like a good build. That would be a nice pairing with the family hauler 182; something comparatively inexpensive to fly just for the fun of it, and into places you might not want to take the Cessna or a low wing speedster like the RV-4.

Being an RV, the -4 shouldn't be difficult to find a buyer, if it can be put into flyable condition without major heroics. Might be the quickest of the lot to sell, given the Vans network. The Harmon Rocket modification has to be done during construction as it involves a number of significant parts substitutions, and re-pitching the ribs for a shorter wingspan.

The Q2 might have a Revmaster, which might bring a few $.
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Well when we first looked at the hangar and the wife saw the picture of the Cub she was all smiles since we sold her Chief to get the Skylane. But she also saw the cowling was off and some kind of motor work in process and quickly realized its more likely a money pit. However, I have always wanted to get her a Chief again. She loved flying that thing and it would compliment the 182.

I gotta admit the RV4 is the one that interests me the most. I only had 5 minutes and didn't get to uncover it much of it. But it sure looked nice. Heck, if it didn't sell maybe I just keep it in the corner and let kids sit in it and pretend fly. Well, when no one is around I might do that too LOL!

Thanks for the tip on the Q2. That one seems like it should be "selectively" parted out and chucked.
 
Jeff767 said:
The RV4 can’t be converted to a Harmon Rocket. It has to be built as a HR since there are numerous substantial changes including a wider cockpit, longer fuselage and shorter wing. The wing retains the same number of ribs as the RV4 however they are closer together resulting in a shorter span.
A RV4 should be a quick sell if the basic construction is good. Put it on the Vans forum.
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Thanks for the info on the Harmon Rocket. I had heard about it but clearly its not a possibility. If we get this hangar the RV4 will get the majority if our attention for selling to recoup costs.
 
Stewartb said:
If the Cub is experimental there’s no annual necessary. Depending on engine and equipment it may be a turd or it may fetch $100k. Hard to say. Look up the N number and the builder/model name will rule out Cubcrafters.
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This is what confuses me. The N-Number now shows HOLD Canceled/Not Assigned. Actually that part makes sense since it seemed to expire in January of 2018 and is reserved until 2023.

Its the entry prior that lists co-owners (deceased father and son). That entry shows the father and son's name as the Manufacturer. The model is listed as the fathers name / NUKK C-Cub. The certificate was issued December 2004 and the airworthiness date is Sept 2005. It lists a continental motor and serial number. Does any of that help?
 
Interesting. It does have "Experimental" written in large letters inside the cockpit above the left window. The prop hub indicates "Continental Motors America's Standard" I don't see flaps though. I didn't have time for lots of pictures but here are two and I only see ailerons, no flaps...

20191025_143940.jpg
Another shot and you can see the RV4 in the back. I think the RV4 registration indicates the year 2000.
20191025_143856.jpg


"Cub" Panel
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RV4 Cockpit through the canopy. The canopy was in perfect shape and covered nicely.
20191027_234612.jpg
 
I still think that little homebuilt Cub is the one you'll have the most fun with. Find some local EAA types that will help you get it flying. :cool:
 
What I see is a huge ton or hours. How many hours do you have to invest in this project? If the answer is "a lot", and better, "a lot and this looks like lots of fun!" then this might be a cool deal. I can't speak to the value of all this in dollars, but if the seller doesn't know either and basically wants to be rid of it then you can probably do fairly well, I'd guess... *if* this is the kind of thing you can take on. It looks like a lot of potential and a lot of work. :)
 
If we can get it for our offer (doubtful) it will be worth it even if scrapped for parts or sold as project planes. Obviously wed like to make some money. But our offer assumes everything in the pictures is worth zero...well actually our offer takes into account money we'll spend to get rid of things. My vision of that hangar is our 182 sitting up front and that RV4 sitting in the corner while I take time to sell it. If the "Cub" was all assembled and looking more like a a viable project I'd probably be more interested. I'm like anti-clutter guy so just looking at the pictures makes me shake...but I also love "parting" with stuff and it's amazing what some people will pay for another person's junk.
 
Stewartb said:
If the Cub is experimental there’s no annual necessary. Depending on engine and equipment it may be a turd or it may fetch $100k. Hard to say. Look up the N number and the builder/model name will rule out Cubcrafters.
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Experimentals do not require a annual inspection however they do require a annual condition inspection. The only real difference is the conditional inspection can be signed off by a A&P or the builder if he holds a repairmans certificate for that airframe. A annual requires a AI to sign it off.
 
If the hangar is in the SE I know someone who might give you a offer on the 4. PM me your contact info and location and I will get it to him.
 
Looks like a J-3 clone. Solo flight from rear seat isn't my fav. The fuel tank in the lap would bother me.
 
I'd pay a fair price for the hangar and offer to haul away the junk for free. The odds of actually making any money on those things are long indeed, and I doubt they're worth that much in scrap.
 
Those are tough to put a value to without more detailed info. The Q2 is basically scrap depending on what engine it has. If it has an airplane engine you would be better off selling the engine separate.

The cub is probably a wag aero variant. Ones in good flying shape seem to be 22-26k airplanes. That one looks nice in the pictures and the old Continental engines seem to be bulletproof. I would start at 15k for it.

A good flying RV4 is in the 32-42 range for the ones that move fairly quickly. There are some premo ones that people ask more for but I would put this example more towards to bottom with the basic old school panel. I would start at 20-25k on that one since the demand is higher.

You will have people who see a low time RV4 for under 30 and jump all over it. You will also have more knowledgeable people who will see an RV4 with a core engine and will say it's worth 12k. Start high on both and see if you can draw a more eager audience but don't be surprised if you get a low ball offer.
 
steingar said:
I'd pay a fair price for the hangar and offer to haul away the junk for free. The odds of actually making any money on those things are long indeed, and I doubt they're worth that much in scrap.
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That's how we've come up with our offer. Unfortunately for the seller, to us it is all scrap or and to them its stuff. I have a hunch one of the siblings that is not into aviation will assume the planes are worth money and complicate it for years to come. For us we have made offers on 2 different hangars...both refused for being too low. That is just fine by us. We are getting a bit more creative on this offer (regarding the "stuff") and I will share afterwards if the strategy works.
 
Sinistar said:
That's how we've come up with our offer. Unfortunately for the seller, to us it is all scrap or and to them its stuff. I have a hunch one of the siblings that is not into aviation will assume the planes are worth money and complicate it for years to come. For us we have made offers on 2 different hangars...both refused for being too low. That is just fine by us. We are getting a bit more creative on this offer (regarding the "stuff") and I will share afterwards if the strategy works.
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Let them hold out for more. By the time they find a sufficiently benighted buyer that stuff will have further degenerated into it's decrepitude and need even more resurrection to function as anything other than scrap. I prefer to let idiots suffer the misfortune of their idiocy. Moreover, I'm certain that hangar has costs associated with it (lease, taxes, utilities..., nothing's free). They get to maintain those payments while waiting for a sucker. Let 'em pay.
 
steingar said:
Let them hold out for more. By the time they find a sufficiently benighted buyer that stuff will have further degenerated into it's decrepitude and need even more resurrection to function as anything other than scrap. I prefer to let idiots suffer the misfortune of their idiocy. Moreover, I'm certain that hangar has costs associated with it (lease, taxes, utilities..., nothing's free). They get to maintain those payments while waiting for a sucker. Let 'em pay.
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We wouldn't normally even consider a hangar like this however: There are over 80yrs left on the lease :) Without heating it and normal winter electric plane pre-heating only, the total of all bills (lease, taxes, electrical, snow removal, etc) average out to exactly $110/month. That's less than our current hangar rental cost! So this one is worth looking into farther. Throw in the fact the structure is still in great shape and it is a 50x35 hangar with 8x35 loft PLUS a 50x20 workshop area in the back that is fully enclosed and can be finished any way we like. So 2750sqft and another 280sqft in the loft.
 
steingar said:
Let them hold out for more. By the time they find a sufficiently benighted buyer that stuff will have further degenerated into it's decrepitude and need even more resurrection to function as anything other than scrap. I prefer to let idiots suffer the misfortune of their idiocy. Moreover, I'm certain that hangar has costs associated with it (lease, taxes, utilities..., nothing's free). They get to maintain those payments while waiting for a sucker. Let 'em pay.
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Yeah... let's stick it to the 90-year-old widow and nickel-and-dime her and benefit from her family's difficulties... yeah.. that's the ticket...

Sometimes I don't like people. Why not just pay her a fair price, or even a slightly above market price just because it's a nice thing to do?
 
MuseChaser said:
Yeah... let's stick it to the 90-year-old widow and nickel-and-dime her and benefit from her family's difficulties... yeah.. that's the ticket...

Sometimes I don't like people. Why not just pay her a fair price, or even a slightly above market price just because it's a nice thing to do?
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A fair price is the cost of the hangar. The stuff in it is sufficiently risky to be economically viable. Offer a fair price. If they hold out for more, well, they’re adults. They’re allowed to make bad choices, but it is on them to suffer the consequences.
 
Seriously? The son is the co-owner/ builder of the Cub and in going to part with it at scrap price? I’ll buy it from whoever owns it or ends up with it. I have been looking for an experimental cub project.
 
Plot thickens...

My intermediary somehow conveyed (talking) a price $5k above our offer so that sucks :( But we still know we could sell it tomorrow and no other parties are aware that we know of.

The good news. The family has agreed to sell it with all contents removed :)

Regarding the planes. I talked to the guy who knows the family and knows the planes. He will remove all but the RV and sell those from his hangar. He will use our rental hangar to store the RV while he sells it. The RV has all logs and was most recently run (not flown) 2 years ago by the same person. He knows the motor will be a potential issue but was running it yearly, doing something with the oil, etc. So I'm sure he'll get a decent price for the RV and probably take a bigger than average comission while selling it for the family.

The Quickie Q2 has no motor and pilot side kenard and tail had damage so scrap.

I've already had one PM request. If others are interested in the Cub or RV please PM me and I will pass along the contact info. I wont be do anything until I know our fate regarding the hangar itself.

Oh yeah, the cub doesn't have all the paperwork unlike the RV4. Were not sure if the first 40hrs were flown but another pilot at the airport was flying it for the owner as they finished the build. I believe it has a aftermarket wing..Wag Aero something...

That's all I know. And wouldn't be one bit surprised if it all changes.

FYI...these planes will be about 60 miles from Minneapolis if that helps any for those interested.
 
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