Is PPonk upgrade cheaper with low time engine?

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MountainDude

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MountainDude
If everything else is equal (O-470 engine, prop type...), would upgrading to a PPonk cost less for an engine with 130 hrs vs 1800 hrs?
My assumption is that an 1800 hr engine would need an entire overhaul (say $25-30K), then PPonk upgrade ($15-20K?), whereas the young engine would only need the PPonk upgrade.
Thank you
 
The mod requires case machining so the motor has to be completely disassembled. At 130 hours you could reassemble the lower end without machining the crank , rods, cam, and without replacing bearings. Bolt up new cylinders and the re-worked carb and off you go. That assumes you have the correct crank for the mod.

My own engine mod happened at 100 hours SFRM and involved a new 520 crank so my case had extra machining. Even with new bearings it was not a major overhaul, though, so at first start the Pponk engine had 100 hours on it.
 
MountainDude said:
If everything else is equal (O-470 engine, prop type...), would upgrading to a PPonk cost less for an engine with 130 hrs vs 1800 hrs?
My assumption is that an 1800 hr engine would need an entire overhaul (say $25-30K), then PPonk upgrade ($15-20K?), whereas the young engine would only need the PPonk upgrade.
Thank you
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At overhaul time the added cost consists of different cylinders (you may have cylinders budgeted in the overhaul already), milling the case for the bigger cylinders and likely the 7th stud (if your case was getting milled and align bored the added machining is minor), and rebuilding the carb. How a guy accounts for the overhaul costs versus the upgrade costs is up to him but at overhaul time the upgrade itself is pretty cheap. To upgrade a 130 hour engine is all expensed to the upgrade so to me to upgrade a young engine is the more expensive route although the total cost is less. Make sense? When I did mine my reman's crank was condemned by Continental so they provided a new crank and all the labor and parts to repair the engine. All it cost me was 6 new cylinders with that cost offset by selling my 100 hour 470 cylinders, the case mods, which in my engine included converting to a 520 crank, and having the carb modified, which at that time was only done by Pponk. My upgrade cost was under $5K but then I added a C401-86 so that bumped it up $10K.
 
Thanks for the replies. What about selling my engine (130 hrs, so in a sweet spot), then buying a run-out engine for cheap and upgrading it to PPonk?
 
MountainDude said:
Thanks for the replies. What about selling my engine (130 hrs, so in a sweet spot), then buying a run-out engine for cheap and upgrading it to PPonk?
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Still be a big hit.

What’s the mission that 50 more HP at sea level will make a big difference on?

(It doesn’t give you 50 more HP as you go to higher airports.)

Also have you checked if your prop qualifies for the STC also?

It’s really a discussion best had with Steve or one of his authorized places. They can tell ya all details as well as give an opinion — and probably a backlog date to have it done and how much downtime you’d have. Stuff like that.

In the end, it would be very like new avionics for a panel that works fine... your checkbook comes out and you buy what you want, and it doesn’t have to make financial sense.

Some people pull perfectly good engines and do the IO-550 STC to 182s also. That’s a lot more HP than the P.Ponk. The draw of the PP is that if you’re doing an overhaul already, and your engine and prop qualify (or you just want a prop replacement), it’s a smallish percentage to do it.

Folks say it comes with added heat and fuddling around with baffles and such for about a year for most joyrider airplanes that don’t fly much, and a couple of months for a busy airplane — which can be a source of frustration but ends up worth it for the long haul. And that’s just anecdotal from reading other’s experiences.

But definitely curious what the extra 50 HP means for you. Not a wrong answer to that, just curious.
 
Knopp doesn't own the STC anymore, so discard that advice.

What does power do? Lifts heavier loads at a higher rate of climb. Anyone with a 180/182 knows you can get in shorter than out. Horsepower and the right prop are the great equalizer. And that's the draw.
 
Stewartb said:
Knopp doesn't own the STC anymore, so discard that advice.

What does power do? Lifts heavier loads at a higher rate of climb. Anyone with a 180/182 knows you can get in shorter than out. Horsepower and the right prop are the great equalizer. And that's the draw.
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Didn’t know Steve quit. Huh.

All of what you said was true, but I’m still curious about the ACTUAL mission he thinks he needs it for.

It’s a rare airport that you NEED a PP on a 182 other than backcountry, and that airframe is going to need other things to really do backcountry well.

That or like you said, big loads. But we’ve had some big load numbers in the mountains in ours with just the usual O-470 and really didn’t see any significant problems doing so.

Hagernan Pass climbing along the ridge line after a down valley departure from ASE to LXE after a turn at Red Table is completely doable even on a summer day. Often my useful load is down to squat because I’m tankering around more fuel than needed just because it was already in my 80 gallon tanks.

Just curious why he’s hot to upgrade. The 182 isn’t really underpowered to start with.
 
If you didn't notice a difference you're pretty much brain dead. The difference is incredible, and when I did it I replaced a 100 hour TT 470. The 0-520 is the best mod available to the 180/182 airplanes.
 
Stewartb said:
If you didn't notice a difference you're pretty much brain dead. The difference is incredible, and when I did it I replaced a 100 hour TT 470. The 0-520 is the best mod available to the 180/182 airplanes.
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I agree. A friend of mine has a pponk’d C model and it climbs like a bat out of hell
 
Think there is a reason folks do these things at TBO.

I’ll probably 550 my plane at TBO, not that I’d get all that much more out of it, but it makes sense at TBO, right now at under 50% TBO I have zero desire to do it.
 
Stewartb said:
If you didn't notice a difference you're pretty much brain dead. The difference is incredible, and when I did it I replaced a 100 hour TT 470. The 0-520 is the best mod available to the 180/182 airplanes.
Click to expand...

Can you please give me more info on the costs? Thank you.
 
My airport is at 7200 ft and DA in the summer is always above 9000. We fly at 12500 or higher 90% of the time, and regularly go to 16500. PPonk would be awesome.

denverpilot said:
Didn’t know Steve quit. Huh.

All of what you said was true, but I’m still curious about the ACTUAL mission he thinks he needs it for.

It’s a rare airport that you NEED a PP on a 182 other than backcountry, and that airframe is going to need other things to really do backcountry well.

That or like you said, big loads. But we’ve had some big load numbers in the mountains in ours with just the usual O-470 and really didn’t see any significant problems doing so.

Hagernan Pass climbing along the ridge line after a down valley departure from ASE to LXE after a turn at Red Table is completely doable even on a summer day. Often my useful load is down to squat because I’m tankering around more fuel than needed just because it was already in my 80 gallon tanks.

Just curious why he’s hot to upgrade. The 182 isn’t really underpowered to start with.
Click to expand...
 
Stewartb said:
I summarized my costs in post #5.
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Wow, just $10K to upgrade to PPonk? I hope I am not misunderstanding something. Anyway, I will contact PPonk folks and see what they say. Really want that engine.
 
In my case Continental paid all the labor and parts except new cylinders and the case machining. I had a special opportunity.
 
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